Florida School Shooting

[simple]

Curious to see what some people's thoughts are. I lived in Florida for a time, owned several guns, and went shooting almost every week on some back country ranges. But I am just so tired of kids being killed.

One of the most profound thoughts on this issue I've heard I think was on an NPR interview. I think it was right after the pulse nightclub shooting. One of the survivors was asked if they thought congress was going to do anything for gun control, and he responded, if they didn't do anything for a bunch of 6yr olds getting murdered, they're not going to do anything for us. That was very powerful to me.

I'm not necessarily trying to politicize this argument, because likely each side is unwavering in their position. One of my peers from my younger days shared a FB meme that had this monster's picture, and the caption of the photo said some blurb about the shooter and ended with, 'registered democrat'. Whether or not anything on that meme was true, I think it just shows how much of an up hill battle we have in unifying this country.

If you're on the pro gun side, and I'm certainly not anti-gun by any means, is there a point, where it's just not worth it anymore?

 

[dustin3006]

There will never be 100% gun control. We can completely ban guns but they will still be on the streets and in the hands of any truly desired person. So there's no stopping guns but preventing is a completely different story. Most schools only have 1 officer on campus (mostly there to break up fights and stop kids from skipping) I would think possibly training teachers who are willing to learn and/or giving some jobs to veterans who are capable. Those guys put their life on the life defending our country and I'm damn sure they will put their life on the line defending children.

* all just my opinion trying to avoid politics
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Oldmanb777]

Glorifying the sick people like the news does doesn't help any. Hollywood violent movies showing no remorse, or jeopardy for actions does its share.
So how do we fix sick people? Or for that matter sick society. WE glorify Dennis Rodman, and forget David Robison.
At one time we had outlets for our testosterone fueled energy. coach put boxing gloves on us and let us have it out. No more outlets, so it festers, until its out of control.

I have no idea how you fix the sick. But punishing the rest of us will do nothing but make it worse.

 

[Off-choader]

Curious to see what some people's thoughts are. I lived in Florida for a time, owned several guns, and went shooting almost every week on some back country ranges. But I am just so tired of kids being killed.

One of the most profound thoughts on this issue I've heard I think was on an NPR interview. I think it was right after the pulse nightclub shooting. One of the survivors was asked if they thought congress was going to do anything for gun control, and he responded, if they didn't do anything for a bunch of 6yr olds getting murdered, they're not going to do anything for us. That was very powerful to me.

I'm not necessarily trying to politicize this argument, because likely each side is unwavering in their position. One of my peers from my younger days shared a FB meme that had this monster's picture, and the caption of the photo said some blurb about the shooter and ended with, 'registered democrat'. Whether or not anything on that meme was true, I think it just shows how much of an up hill battle we have in unifying this country.

If you're on the pro gun side, and I'm certainly not anti-gun by any means, is there a point, where it's just not worth it anymore?

I am extremely pro gun and there will never be a point where it is just "not worth it anymore". I think incidents like this completely suck ass. There is definitely some mental illness or instability going on that needs to be addressed. I can't imagine what its like for school aged kids these days, I hate going anywhere without a gun and they spend most of there lives in gun free zones depending on a 30.06 sign to keep them safe.

 

[ndcent]

"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over."

Nothing is ever going to happen to curb this kind of violence.

Thoughts and prayers™

 

[ndcent]

His now removed IG page.

 

[Rightside Up]

Bring back mental institutions and let teachers be armed would be a good start.

 

[-JD-]

Cue the gun crowd to tell us how their right to have unrestricted access to guns so they can shoot cans in the woods is more important than preventing children from being shot to death at school. Maybe we can mix in a little 'liberal plot to disarm them' too.

 

[swampdodo]

So what has changed?

When I went to school (high school)...there was bullying, racism, disagreements, fights...hell, almost every boy had a pocket knife (including me). It was no big thing. And guns were more readily available...hell, I could have gone down to the local flea market on Saturdays and bought one off the table no questions asked!

So what has changed?

Is it the whole "everyone gets a trophy" mentality? Are we raising a generation that doesn't know how to fall, face disappointment or deal with failure...or stress. Are kids not hearing the word 'NO' anymore? Is because we don't distinguish between punishment from discipline anymore?

Is easy to blame guns, but a determined person will find a way...hell, just look at ISIS and trucks or people in China and butcher knives...worst school mass killing in history involved a bomb. Yes, it is tragic...it worries me and pisses me off (I have a son in school).

So what has changed?

 

[JKLNHYD]

This generation of kids is a bunch of softies. We used to handle business with bare knuckles and now, they are afraid to be without their emotional support hamsters and binkies. Society has grown a generation of people afraid to handle adversity before it becomes a tragedy.

And since it's the truth, no amount of gun control would have prevented this. He was under the age legally able to buy or own that rifle. So he either stole it from someone or obtained it in some sort of manner inconsistent with current law. Whomever purchased that rifle should be an indirect accomplice because they failed to prevent this. And his parents should be hauled in too! SOMEONE knew this kid was a loose cannon before this happened.

 

[Off-choader]

Cue the gun crowd to tell us how their right to have unrestricted access to guns so they can shoot cans in the woods is more important than preventing children from being shot to death at school. Maybe we can mix in a little 'liberal plot to disarm them' too.

JD is an expert at the subject guys. I know your just trolling because any idiot knows the reason for gun ownership and hint it isn't to plink cans in the woods.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

[simple]

This generation of kids is a bunch of softies. We used to handle business with bare knuckles and now, they are afraid to be without their emotional support hamsters and binkies. Society has grown a generation of people afraid to handle adversity before it becomes a tragedy.

And since it's the truth, no amount of gun control would have prevented this. He was under the age legally able to buy or own that rifle. So he either stole it from someone or obtained it in some sort of manner inconsistent with current law. Whomever purchased that rifle should be an indirect accomplice because they failed to prevent this. And his parents should be hauled in too! SOMEONE knew this kid was a loose cannon before this happened.

You are incorrect, my friend. In FL, 18 is the legal age to buy a rifle. 21 for a handgun. Facts will tell where he got them, but, he certainly had the ability to buy a rifle.

I get where you’re coming from, no amount of ‘gun control’ can ‘fix’ this. But, let’s be real, laws could prevent this. And yeah, there are ways against laws, but the law is still there to protect people. It’s against the law to drink and drive, but people still do it, and people get killed every year because of it. Does that mean we shit can the DUI law because people gonna be people?

Additionally, I’m interested to see ages here with the ‘generational’ problems. I’m in my 30’s and I remember getting a trophy every year when I sucked in little league. I’m also in a business that thrives on young, tough talent, and I see 18yos who are tough as hell everyday and work 12+ hours because that’s the mission.

 

[Gunslinger-13]

This kid was reported by 2 different people to the FBI. He stated to a bail bondsman that he was going to be a "school shooter" and posted on. YouTube video online the same thing.

FBI interviewed both parties who made the report. Closed the case and never even investigated this kid.

Prayers to the victims and their families. Shame to those trying to use the blood of these victims to further their agenda.

I'm dumbfounded by the logical fallacies I constantly see regarding firearms by the anti crowd. They believe that inanimate objects are the problem.

If Guns were the problem there would be millions of deaths a year. There are hundreds of millions of guns in America, the VAST majority of people who own them are responsible, safe and will NEVER use them to hurt anyone or any thing.

And yet, the anti crowd believes that if you ban an object, evil people will cease to do evil deeds.

It's well intended nativity at its worst.

Look at the data. Gun restrictions do nothing to curb violence and nothing to stop these types of shootings.

Instead of doing something that may make a positive difference and focusing our resources in the right direction, the anti crowd keeps banging the same drum seeking the same agenda. It's literal insanity.

Doctors in the medical profession kill more people annually on mistake than pretty much anything else. Should we ban doctors? Restrict access to them?

Car accidents kill tons of people annually- should we ban any vehicle that goes over 55 MPH? Restrict access to vehicles to police and politicians only?

How about pools? Kill a lot of kids annually, more than guns. Let's ban them.

I could go on and on with this list, but it's pointless. People blaming an object instead of the individual perpetrating these crimes are a bigger part of the problem than they will ever realize. You take the attention off of what could be done to have a substantial impact and place it all on the inanimate object.

You will never remove all firearms from society. It's impossible and a fools errand. So focus on something that that will actually impact this nation in a positive fashion.

It gets old seeing the anti crowd ruin any real progress that could be made by being so selfishly committed to vilifying an object and anyone who responsibly owns them.

 

[simple]

JD is an expert at the subject guys. I know your just trolling because any idiot knows the reason for gun ownership and hint it isn't to plink cans in the woods.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I definitely appreciated your first response. It was candid, and I can empathize with your viewpoint.


But, what exactly is a ‘well regulated militia’? Is that you? I’m not being a smart ass or trolling here. I’m legitimately asking how you view what that means.

 

[Gunslinger-13]

I definitely appreciated your first response. It was candid, and I can empathize with your viewpoint.


But, what exactly is a ‘well regulated militia’? Is that you? I’m not being a smart ass or trolling here. I’m legitimately asking how you view what that means.

Read the federalist papers. Read the writings of the folks who wrote the BOR. read the constitution. It's all there my friend.

Everyone is the militia. Any person who can, is responsible for defending the nation from enemies foreign and domestic.

This always gets brought up. It's clearly defined and has been for hundreds of years. Do the research.

I've posted tons of links on T4R in various threads spelling it all out.

 

[BackOff]

Things like this suck...18 this year? WTF! I have not seen that on the news.
All caught up in MR. Trump I guess.
There are a BILLION guns out there and no one can ever hope to CONTROL them all.
Since the '50s there have been as many car related deaths as gun in this country per year...no one says BAN cars.

Control your schools.
Lock your schools down, check point to get on the property, check point to get in the school. No in/out without permissions for non-time enter/exit. Metal detectors. Security guards.
Then you start to wonder... is this the USA? or Israel or Afghanistan.

That is something you can do but who pays for it? The Taxpayer...like pulling teeth.

No, just PRAY, spy on your neighbors, freak out and call in everyone that looks at you funny...yes that really helps.

Welcome to the new world.
The crap that passes for movies, blame Hollywood.
Feed your children some messed up prescription drugs, not like that could be an issue?
First person shooters, I grew up on but I am not sure I would want my kids playing them today...if I was dumb enough to even have one of the little shits.

I would want my kids to be able to defend themselves and have the 'know how' to HELP others that need it. Frist aid to the wounded...help...put that studid phone down and apply direct pressure...Don't hide in the F'ing closet...WTF...teach your kids how to actually DO something.

Feels like I was transported to BIZARRO World...

 

[JKLNHYD]

You are incorrect, my friend. In FL, 18 is the legal age to buy a rifle. 21 for a handgun. Facts will tell where he got them, but, he certainly had the ability to buy a rifle.

I get where you’re coming from, no amount of ‘gun control’ can ‘fix’ this. But, let’s be real, laws could prevent this. And yeah, there are ways against laws, but the law is still there to protect people. It’s against the law to drink and drive, but people still do it, and people get killed every year because of it. Does that mean we shit can the DUI law because people gonna be people?

Additionally, I’m interested to see ages here with the ‘generational’ problems. I’m in my 30’s and I remember getting a trophy every year when I sucked in little league. I’m also in a business that thrives on young, tough talent, and I see 18yos who are tough as hell everyday and work 12+ hours because that’s the mission.

I stand corrected; thank you! I just read a few minutes ago that stated his birth year, noting that he was, in fact, 19. Not under 18 as I originally stated. So yes, in just about any state, he could purchase that AR rifle.

I'm in my mid 40's and just like you, see the hard work, responsibility, and commitment to the mission by 18 yr olds on a daily basis and I have watched that generation evolve for the past 24 years. I wasn't part of the "trophy for everyone" scene when I was in school. Maybe it was where I grew up or maybe it was the decade of difference between us. Either way, I agree, laws are there to protect people and they are not supposed to restrict those that follow them.

Plenty of red flags about this guy that went un-acted upon. I'm curious who is going own that outside of the shooter himself...

 

[Off-choader]

Things like this suck...18 this year? WTF! I have not seen that on the news.
All caught up in MR. Trump I guess.
There are a BILLION guns out there and no one can ever hope to CONTROL them all.
Since the '50s there have been as many car related deaths as gun in this country per year...no one says BAN cars.

Control your schools.
Lock your schools down, check point to get on the property, check point to get in the school. No in/out without permissions for non-time enter/exit. Metal detectors. Security guards.
Then you start to wonder... is this the USA? or Israel or Afghanistan.

That is something you can do but who pays for it? The Taxpayer...like pulling teeth.

No, just PRAY, spy on your neighbors, freak out and call in everyone that looks at you funny...yes that really helps.

Welcome to the new world.
The crap that passes for movies, blame Hollywood.
Feed your children some messed up prescription drugs, not like that could be an issue?
First person shooters, I grew up on but I am not sure I would want my kids playing them today...if I was dumb enough to even have one of the little shits.

I would want my kids to be able to defend themselves and have the 'know how' to HELP others that need it. Frist aid to the wounded...help...put that studid phone down and apply direct pressure...Don't hide in the F'ing closet...WTF...teach your kids how to actually DO something.

Feels like I was transported to BIZARRO World...

Woah broh 18 this year? sounds like someones been watching to much CNN, one was a bb gun, couple accidental and I believe if im not mistaken a stray bullet from off campus somewhere hit a school building?

None the less i see your point but this is the world we live in, training and preparedness should definitely be taught

 

[jordanrb81]

So, this is all people are talking about today at the office "water cooler" it's sad, there's no way else to say it. I was in 8th grade when Oklahoma city happened, I was a junior in high school for Columbine and a Sophomore in College when the planes hit the towers it pains me to think how the world changed so drastically (for the worse) in less than a decade. all of these acts of violence were a tragedy but guns were only involved in one of them. I will also say that arming teachers... this sounds cool but bad idea. I am a gun owner and have a conceal carry permit, though now NH is constitutional carry so that is less relevant unless I go to a state with reciprocity. not my point. I was chatting with a guy in a restaurant months ago and he said well if someone came in right now and decided to shoot up the place I could "put him down." We were about as far away from the door as we could physically be, easily over 20 yards, sort of the same situation in most classrooms the teachers desk sits on the opposite wall from the door in most cases. I said really? you've got a Ruger .380 LCP and you're going to stand up point it at a guy with an AK and take him out? no, what you're going to do is get more people killed, you're going to miss and then first guy with gun is going to start shooting at second guy with gun and the 250 people in between are going to be caught in the crossfire and more people are going to be hurt. grow up. He shut up and drank his beer. I go to the gun range no less than once a month and I am a great shot, in a controlled environment where no one is shooting back at me and the target isn't moving and there aren't 10 year old kids in the way. unless we are going to stop employing people like my mother who taught 5th grade for 20 years and has never even held a gun in her hand and start hiring Navy seals and the like this plan will make things worse not better. If you're like my friend and think you could do it, and aren't some sort of ex special forces, you can't, you want to believe you can, but if it all actually went down, you'd more likely wet your pants then be useful and any way shape or form.

So what should we do, I know ban guns... except what about all the guns that are already out there? I mean the secondary market is so flush with weapons that even if you stopped all sales of all guns tomorrow the ability to obtain a NEW firearm would go down, but there would be plenty to go around. Ok, well lets make it so entering or even getting close to a school is as difficult as getting into a state or federal prison, great that one may actually work. Do you want your children to go to a school that is in a perpetual state of lock down, metal detectors and a frisk to go to a basketball game? I think some parents would say, "whatever it takes" and still more would say this is not an ideal learning environment for our children. In my mind the solution is family, I know I sound so old fashioned and silly. eat dinner with your kids, talk to them about their lives, get off the device you're using to read this very post. all kids go through "stuff" we need to accept that some handle it differently than others and just like our troops coming home some need more help than others, and that shouldn't be considered a sign of weakness. Good parenting and paying attention can solve a heck of a lot of this, and professional mental help for those who need it can solve the rest. the weapon is easy to villainize because then no person has to take responsibility it's no my fault, I haven't failed as a parent. it's not my fault I haven't failed as a teacher, it's not my fault I haven't failed as a doctor. let's blame the tool, the weapon of violence instead of the circumstances that led to the action. then we can all still feel good about ourselves.

 

[BackOff]

Yes too much CNN for me. Between all the prescription drugs commercials.

The shooter had lost both parents.