I honestly dont agree with this. Some of the absolutely MOST determined will still carry out a mass murder of some kind. But if you make something more difficult to accomplish less people are likely to accomplish it - its common sense, another thing sorely lacking with a good portion of the country.
Florida School Shooting
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I honestly dont agree with this. Some of the absolutely MOST determined will still carry out a mass murder of some kind. But if you make something more difficult to accomplish less people are likely to accomplish it - its common sense, another thing sorely lacking with a good portion of the country.
Bumbo
New member
Yes, the harder you make it to obtain, the less access there will be to those items. I absolutely agree with that logic.
I also agree with background checks, no-gun-show-loophole, and other states following suite to tighten up their background check process.
The point of my post was to show that you can't get them all. Even if you did, someone will just make one.
The point of my post was also to highlight that the manufacturing of a home built firearms is LEGAL... and I feel that is something that also needs to go away and or have more restrictions around it. 80% AR or anything home built... nothing stops a felon from making or obtaining one black-market.
I think what some fail to see is that it wasn't the system that F'ed up here, this guy passed the background check. Everything that was supposed to be in place, was in place. He was "crying out for help" online, the sign was on the proverbial social media wall, and law enforcement failed the people. Its really sad when you think about it, it literally could have been prevented.
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Gunslinger-13
New member
Gasoline, glass bottle, ripped up bed sheet and a bic . About $10.00 on the expensive side.
Will cause more damage in less time than any firearm. Simple. Effective. Cheap.
Much cheaper than a firearm. Much easier to conceal and get into high security areas.
Lob that into a crowd of people and you will inflict maximum damage in minimal time with no skill needed.
Imagine if the Vegas shooter lobbed several malotov cocktails into that crowd? More people would have died.
Would there be cries from the anti gun crowd to ban gasoline, cotton and glass bottles?
It seems anti gunners don't care about murder rates or violent crime going down- it's just "gun deaths" and not even that because gun deaths are lowest where the greatest proliferation of firearms and carry rights exist.
It's simply about the object. It's lunacy!
Cool, glad we can agree on something. Lets start there and tighten the screws so hard it makes it a long and grueling nightmare for someone to buy a gun, even the honest law abiding citizens (if you're really dedicated to them you will still do it).
Agree again. Look at all this progress we are making. :hippie: School, law enforcement, people who knew him, whatever hospital he was getting help in - all failed badly.
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The problem with your argument is....WE AREN'T GETTING MOLOTOV COCKTAIL MASS MURDER INCIDENTS!!! We are getting gun deaths. More specifically in the recent past, assault rifle deaths. Lets start there shall we? Jesus, I can not fathom this idea that if we can't solve all problems immediately we should sit with our thumbs up our asses and send thoughts and prayers. Start small (or big) and keep progressing.
Bumbo
New member
Can you at least clean up the quote to NOT include things YOU said, as thing I said?
Please
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Thank You
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Off-choader
New member
fake and gay, the account your referring to was created after the shooting and since been deleted. Very similar to your white supremacist comments, that was a rumor from 4chan that CNN reported on as fact which has been completely discredited by local law enforcement
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Gunslinger-13
New member
Molotov attacks happen still today. The media doesn't report hem with such vitriol and fervency as they do gun attacks.
My point was in direct response to your post of "simple" being what people will do. Nothing simpler than a Molotov cocktail.
And those types of attacks would absolutely be more prevalent if there was less access to firearms and more people typically die in those type of attacks.
The point is that you can't stop evil from people from doing evil things by banning objects from people who follow the law. It's a fools errand.
Evil people will inflict destruction any way they can.
Bumbo
New member
I've said it before, and i'll say it again.
The modern war-front is over the wire... fake news, and other stuff that happens in the media is the new weapon.
I read it is a goal of Russia to increase the divide between parties. Plenty of articles out there to support that statement as well... unless you want to believe that is fake news as well.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/us/russian-bots-florida-shooting-intl/index.html
Russian bots flood Twitter with pro-gun messages after Florida shooting: report | TheHill
Bumbo
New member
Well, that has been the case for ages... if it doesn't fit the agenda, or isn't going to pull the the ratings when there are other stories that hit better, why bother.
The news isn't about news anymore... Its about the money.
Buddy dont start a fake news argument, if there was an incident where 17 people were killed with molotov cocktails the news would be reporting on it in a heartbeat. SMH
You are right that people will switch to the next easiest thing when guns are too hard to purchase, and we will have to fight that battle when it comes. But today its guns, tomorrow its guns, next year it will be guns. Again, why is no action the best course of action simply because we won't be able to solve the entire problem immediately?
Off-choader
New member
aha, yes It is absolutely fake news, CNN Is so unbelievably corrupt and dishonest, They are the number one reason I made the shift from voting democrat all my life to DJT.
Off-choader
New member
OH man so much salt, Bruh you guys have been losing since nov 2016 you will also lose this gun control push. Don't tread on my rights bruh dey not up for debate
Insane ones, too. I'm reading reports that the Cruz guy was hearing demon voices and that the police had been to his house many times. Seems to me a case could be made that we have a mental health problem more then we have a gun problem.
Also read the FBI admitted protocols weren't followed regarding tips that came in warning about Cruz. Article's here: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-16/fbi-admits-protocols-were-not-followed-florida-massacre According to that, this wasn't the first time the FBI's lack of followup ended poorly. Maybe if they weren't so busy playing politics they'd be able to do their job.
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Inv4drZm
Senior Member
If you can't sway someone, just call them idiots. Real smart.
jordanrb81
New member
Gunslinger, here is my issue with your comment about conceal carry people being hero's. I get that the ones you interact with, you do so while training them. that in no way makes them the majority... not by a mile. a good guy with a gun 90% of the time in a mass shooter situation is going to get themselves and more people killed. It's just common sense. I am going to go out on a limb here and say you are likely a better shot than me. my CCW is a Ruger LCR chambered in .38 special. so here's the drill, I'll take an AR-15 and you take my CCW then I'll surprise you from 50 ft. (that's right I get to know when I'm coming but you don't) away and we'll see who hits center mass first... think you have a chance... you don't even though I concede to your superior skills, because I have the right tool for the job. I would never actually try this unless it were with the equivalent to paint balls but I think you see my point. as snub nose revolver isn't designed to be accurate at even 50 ft. the average conceal carry person is only really going to be able to put down an active shooter that has an AR, with their pocket weapon if they are close enough to put barrel burns on the back of their head. but from 50 ft. across a room with 30 screaming kids in it... I wouldn't take that shot because I know I would never make it. which brings up another point. the active shooter is trying to kill innocent by standers the hero in this case one would assume only wants to hit one target and is trying to be careful not to hit the 30 bodies panicking between them.
and before you ask me if I believe this why even carry. because within 25ft. half the distance referred to above I am actually a pretty good shot with this weapon and you'd have to be within 10ft. of me to ever be enough of a threat to myself or my loved ones before I would ever imagine using it.
Last thing... Do you know the stats on people with CCW's that end up getting shot with their own gun? not a one off accidental discharge I mean they pull it during an attempted rape or mugging and the criminal takes it from them, then shoots them with it? without proper training this is actually the higher statistical outcome, which is why you should be a lot busier than you are. people are idiots, people with guns are still basically idiots. author (me) included.
and before you ask me if I believe this why even carry. because within 25ft. half the distance referred to above I am actually a pretty good shot with this weapon and you'd have to be within 10ft. of me to ever be enough of a threat to myself or my loved ones before I would ever imagine using it.
Last thing... Do you know the stats on people with CCW's that end up getting shot with their own gun? not a one off accidental discharge I mean they pull it during an attempted rape or mugging and the criminal takes it from them, then shoots them with it? without proper training this is actually the higher statistical outcome, which is why you should be a lot busier than you are. people are idiots, people with guns are still basically idiots. author (me) included.
Off-choader
New member
Difficult question to think about, I would be scared as balls engaging anyone past 10ft in public. Idk what I would do in a mass shooter situation, you literally would just have to be in the perfect place at the perfect time to stop someone with an AR without putting anyone else at risk.
Inv4drZm
Senior Member
Honestly I would prefer someone with a CCW in basically every mass shooting incident. In a shooting, anything you can do to distract the shooter saves lives. I hate to say it, but putting rounds down range (within your ability) in the direction of the shooter, even without a 100% clear shot, will save lives. A mass shooter isn't looking for people coming after them, so you will have the jump on them instead of vise-versa like you assume, unless they singled you out as the first victim. If you are truly about saving the most lives, harming a bystander yourself is the least of your concerns as long as you are effective at making the shooter distracted, take cover, wounded, etc. The shooter isn't playing by the rules, I would be okay with a trained civilian doing something about it even if it isn't 100% clear-cut, close range, 1v1, open shot.
Inv4drZm
Senior Member
Everyone is already at risk. Your hesitation could mean their death. Those people were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and nobody could change that. Distracting the shooter with even a somewhat decent shot could easily save more lives.
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