Florida School Shooting

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Every time I read about banning AR-15's, I almost laugh at the ignorance. The only difference between the AR-15 and any other semi-automatic rifle is appearance! For example, last year I changed the stock on my Ruger 10-22 and now it looks like an AR-15! But it is still a Ruger 10-22! I wish people would take the time and effort to educate themselves instead of believing what they read in the "news" media. I shall now step down from my soap box.
 
Every time I read about banning AR-15's, I almost laugh at the ignorance. The only difference between the AR-15 and any other semi-automatic rifle is appearance! For example, last year I changed the stock on my Ruger 10-22 and now it looks like an AR-15! But it is still a Ruger 10-22! I wish people would take the time and effort to educate themselves instead of believing what they read in the "news" media. I shall now step down from my soap box.

I only said AR-15 because that's what the kid used to mow down 17 kids. It's a gun widely available that was specifically design for killing humans, capable of firing 400 rounds per minute with enough clips, not used for hunting like your Ruger 10-20. I know you can accessorize any gun to look like an assault rifle, but it doesn't have the same killing capacity of an AR-15.
 
I was trying to get at licensing the level of firearm that you wish to own. Someone owning a small hand gun shouldn't be put on the same playing field as someone with an AR-15. I just personally think gun owners should accept greater responsibility if they want to protect their right to own and keep things like assault rifles out of the hands of unstable people who are potential threats to others. Of course licensing only isn't going to fix the problem. This is a multi-faceted problem that goes beyond gun control. The point is that we at least try to have a conversation and fix the problem.

Do you need a license for free speech?

And we don't need a "conversation" when the only options are to restrict existing rights.
 
I only said AR-15 because that's what the kid used to mow down 17 kids. It's a gun widely available that was specifically design for killing humans, capable of firing 400 rounds per minute with enough clips, not used for hunting like your Ruger 10-20. I know you can accessorize any gun to look like an assault rifle, but it doesn't have the same killing capacity of an AR-15.



Banning the AR-15 makes perfect sense… It would stop shootings all together, because it would be very unamerican to commit a crime like this with an AK, FAL, Tavor, FN SCAR, or any other semi-automatic rifle that literally does the exact same job.

The killing capacity comes from the operator.
 
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Banning the AR-15 makes perfect sense… It would stop shoots all together, because it would be very unamerican to commit a crime like this with an AK, FAL, Tavor, FN SCAR, or any other semi-automatic rifle that literally does the exact same job.

Again, never once mentioned banning the AR-15 or any other rifle of that caliber. I ask why not find better ways to regulate and manage them. Or we could continue to do nothing and accept that this is life in America now.
 
You're right, we should probably just do nothing... Your "rights" are much more important than finding ways to protect children.

I have no interests in emotional arguments when it comes to my rights, so spare me the "it's for the children, you have blood on your hands, no one needs a military style weapon, the NRA is a bunch of murderers BS."

Gun rights have been severely limited in this country already and there are countless of laws on the books, laws that would have prevented this tragedy if the FBI and local LEO actually did their job and shitcanned this mental deficient.

You want to come for my guns, prepare for a fight.
 
Every time I read about banning AR-15's, I almost laugh at the ignorance. The only difference between the AR-15 and any other semi-automatic rifle is appearance! For example, last year I changed the stock on my Ruger 10-22 and now it looks like an AR-15! But it is still a Ruger 10-22! I wish people would take the time and effort to educate themselves instead of believing what they read in the "news" media. I shall now step down from my soap box.

Precisely my original point...

You can't ban the AR-15, without removing ALL semi-automatic center fire rifles across the board.

Again, from the standpoint of a state who is already been there done that...

You can add a pistol grip and telescoping stock to a regular ole Ruger mini-14 and it meets the definition of an assault rifle in CA. Illegal

Alternately, you can remove the pistol grip from an AR-15, fix the stock, and it's good to go.

I already mentioned the AR ban in CA. AR-15 rifles are still available on the shelf in a featureless configuration. It's no different than a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle, and CA compliant to boot.

Fact... the law changed bullet button fixed magazine rifles in CA, to featureless rifles with regular magazine release making mag changes fast and easy again.

Thanks law makers.
 
Banning the AR-15 makes perfect sense… It would stop shoots all together, because it would be very unamerican to commit a crime like this with an AK, FAL, Tavor, FN SCAR, or any other semi-automatic rifle that literally does the exact same job.

Gun laws are emotionally based and written by people who have very little understanding of firearms, so they go after features that make guns look "scary" or what they perceive are lethal features based on what they've seen on TV.
 
Precisely my original point...

You can't ban the AR-15, without removing ALL semi-automatic center fire rifles across the board.

Again, from the standpoint of a state who is already been there done that...

You can add a pistol grip and telescoping stock to a regular ole Ruger mini-14 and it meets the definition of an assault rifle in CA. Illegal

Alternately, you can remove the pistol grip from an AR-15, fix the stock, and it's good to go.

I already mentioned the AR ban in CA. AR-15 rifles are still available on the shelf in a featureless configuration. It's no different than a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle, and CA compliant to boot.

Fact... the law changed bullet button fixed magazine rifles in CA, to featureless rifles with regular magazine release making mag changes fast and easy again.

Thanks law makers.

Liberals want to ban all semis and magazine fed weapons, so we're back to using revolvers and cowboy rifles.

Then they'll probably ban those because they hold more than one cartridge.
 
Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over."

Nothing is ever going to happen to curb this kind of violence.

Thoughts and prayers™

America has not decided killing children is bearable, don't know why you would make such a statement.

Get rid of the soft targets (gun free zones) things will change.
Have a good guy with gun makes all the difference in the world.

I believe in gun control 100%, 1 shot one kill.
 
I have no interests in emotional arguments when it comes to my rights, so spare me the "it's for the children, you have blood on your hands, no one needs a military style weapon, the NRA is a bunch of murderers BS."

Gun rights have been severely limited in this country already and there are countless of laws on the books, laws that would have prevented this tragedy if the FBI and local LEO actually did their job and shitcanned this mental deficient.

You want to come for my guns, prepare for a fight.

Dude, no one ever mentioned banning or taking away your guns... A person with a violent history or a sketchy background, shouldn't be allowed to buy an assault rifle.
 
Dude, no one ever mentioned banning or taking away your guns... A person with a violent history or a sketchy background, shouldn't be allowed to buy an assault rifle.

There are already laws on the books that forbid just that, it's literally spelled out in Form 4473 and supposedly reported and flagged by the NICS database.

Law enforcement did NOTHING about this freakshow of a kid.

We have an enforcement problem.

If the Broward Sheriff or the FBI actually did something about this kid, they would have Baker Acted his ass, taken the guns out of the house, and if we still cared about mental illness in this country, he'd be vacationing in a facility upstate full of Haldol.
 
Every time I read about banning AR-15's, I almost laugh at the ignorance. The only difference between the AR-15 and any other semi-automatic rifle is appearance! For example, last year I changed the stock on my Ruger 10-22 and now it looks like an AR-15! But it is still a Ruger 10-22! I wish people would take the time and effort to educate themselves instead of believing what they read in the "news" media. I shall now step down from my soap box.



Are you just making a general statement or a statement in response to anyone here? I think all here are in agreement that AR’s shouldn’t be banned but I can’t say I read nearly every post.


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Again, never once mentioned banning the AR-15 or any other rifle of that caliber. I ask why not find better ways to regulate and manage them. Or we could continue to do nothing and accept that this is life in America now.

I know... i'm just trying to get you to see the holes in the logic in a round about way.

You also said "Someone owning a small hand gun shouldn't be put on the same playing field as someone with an AR-15"

Small firearms are highly concealable vs something that doesn't even fit in a standard backpack. It's much easier to walk down the street with a concealed pistol than a long-gun that's for sure.

What is wild about concealed carry in CA. You can apply for a licence, but depending on the county, they most likely will not sign off on it.

The licence basically became the road block that they wanted to restrict your right to carry. So no good guy with a gun. There is such a thing called constitutional carry, but CA as a state does not honor that.

I understand the intent is coming from a genuine place of concern and want for improvement, but I've seen things executed by both sides just completely fall apart in practice.

They either increase the threat, or reduce the ability for real protection. With that logic, we might as well make the whole world a gun free zone. That should work.
 
Law enforcement did NOTHING about this freakshow of a kid.

We have an enforcement problem.

If the Broward Sheriff or the FBI actually did something about this kid, they would have Baker Acted his ass, taken the guns out of the house, and if we still cared about mental illness in this country, he'd be vacationing in a facility upstate full of Haldol.

This is exactly what I think is the most disturbing aspect of this shooting, as well as many others. The kid threw every red flag under the sun and the powers in place did nothing.

This is a multifaceted problem and we have to look at this holistically. This is an enforcement problem, mental illness problem, and gun law problem. Despite all the red flags, he was still able to legally acquire a firearm.

I really think social media outlets could also do a better job of monitoring and reporting this kind of stuff.
 
This is exactly what I think is the most disturbing aspect of this shooting, as well as many others. The kid threw every red flag under the sun and the powers in place did nothing.

This is a multifaceted problem and we have to look at this holistically. This is an enforcement problem, mental illness problem, and gun law problem. Despite all the red flags, he was still able to legally acquire a firearm.

I really think social media outlets could also do a better job of monitoring and reporting this kind of stuff.
We need to reopen mental institutions and stop normalizing mental illness.
 
I only said AR-15 because that's what the kid used to mow down 17 kids. It's a gun widely available that was specifically design for killing humans, capable of firing 400 rounds per minute with enough clips, not used for hunting like your Ruger 10-20. I know you can accessorize any gun to look like an assault rifle, but it doesn't have the same killing capacity of an AR-15.

In Michigan and I'm sure many other places AR's are used for hunting. When it comes right down to it- guns were originally made for killing people. That goes back to the old muzzle loaders. As for the firing 400 rounds per minute, that depends on how fast the shooter can pull his trigger and then change magazines. Yes, many other magazine fed semi-auto rifles can be made to look like an AR and they too will fire just as fast as the shooter can work his finger.
 
"your liberty to swing your fists ends just at my nose" I read a lot of people on here talking about their rights like they are to be given freely and without responsibility. human rights are a two party contract. why do you think you can lose them if convicted of a federal crime. my question is do you all really honestly believe we are holding up our end of the deal? I know that owning a car isn't an inalienable right given to us by the constitution but a lot of people on here have drawn the line and for this purpose it's as good an analogy as any. I have 4 cars, I have a license to drive them and every year I have to have all four inspected and registered. while I am having my vehicles inspected and registered I don't feel oppressed, I don't feel as though the man is trampling my rights. honestly it doesn't really bother me at all. I own three guns and in order for me to get a conceal and carry permit every 4 years I have to go to my local police station and give them 10 dollars and fill out a 1 page... ok 2 pages one paper front and back form. I don't feel even the least bit bothered by this. We all have a right to liberty and to bear arms, or bare arms, maybe it was a typo.. anyway our neighbors also have a right not to be shot, their kids have a right not to be shot. "your liberty to swing your fists ends just at my nose" if I were nuts enough to be a member of the senate I would propose a bill that goes a little something like this.

if you want to own a firearm you need to obtain a license. to all of you in California I think what they're doing is B.S. in New Hampshire, the live free or die state. if a local PD or Sherriff wants to tell you no they have to give you a specific written reason and if you disagree you can appeal it. in other words "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" it's basically an automatic yes unless there's a evidence based verifiable reason. here's the rub. if you want a hand gun you need to get specific training for the use of a hand gun. if you want a rifle, again specific training for that class of license, like if I want to drive a school bus, I need a different license, or transport hazardous materials etc. and before you get all wound up needing to take a safety class is in no way a violation or oppression of your second amendment rights, it's just prudent and responsible. I think if you want to carry you should be required to get an additional license with more training. same thing with a shot gun, hunting etc. with rights come responsibility. remember that we have the right to free speech but we cannot just say whatever we want when we want, you are not allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater. we need to protect our rights, but we have a responsibility to our community. none of this would have stopped the Florida shooting, unless maybe the instructor this kid was taking classes from did something that the foster parents, school, family doctor and FBI didn't. I also once again in the imaginary world where I was nuts enough to run for public office would exempt any police or military from such a requirement, or give them an automatic pass and permit any and all current fire arm owners (myself included) to test out. and again before you get your blood pressure up this would be no more or less of a pain then if you moved from a rural area into a city and got a letter saying, yup, we know you have a driver's license but it seems the town or county in which it was issued didn't include as a part of your driving test the requirement to show your ability to parallel park so we need you to come on down to the DMV and park between two yellow cones in the next 60 days. that's not a rights violation it's just a minor pain in the A$$. we can enforce the laws on the books and expand background checks without violating anyone's rights. So before you guys get all high on the second amendment remember that we have a responsibility to the safety of our community, rights come with a cost and we owe it to our neighbors to hold up our end of the deal here. Ok, I think I'm done.
 
I listened to an interesting debate today on NPR. There was a guy who was against banning high capacity magazines. He argued that a well trained individual can get off 3 10rd magazines in about the same time as somebody shooting 1 magazine with 30rds. I agree. With minimal practice and smart gear placement, reload time is minimal.

The point I think sails right over this guy’s head is storage capacity. On deployment I carried 5 30rd magazines and 1 in the magazine well. Carrying 6 magazines takes up a lot of real estate on a vest. It’s a ****ing game changer when those 6 magazines bring 60rds to a gunfight vs 180. You start talking having to bring 18mags to bring the same firepower, that’s a big difference.

No one here is arguing that ARs need to go away. And yes, we’re all ‘super impressed’ with your knowledge of guns and how not all weapons are ARs. How does regulating magazines to 10rds infringe on your right as gun owners? You can indeed own your own fighter jet. But you can’t own all the systems that it comes with on the fleet side. Yet I haven’t heard it argued that that infringes on your right to be a ‘well regulated militia’.
 
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