Fog Light question - need help ASAP

[speedracer33]

I just bought a 2003 4Runner V8 4WD Sport. When I received it, I discovered that the fog light switch on the light stalk wasn't doing anything. I took it to the dealership, and they told me that the entire fog light assembly was missing. So I spoke to the person I bought it from asking him to pay to fix this, and this was his reply

"The fog lamps are not in the place where they look like they should be, those are on the cars for decoration. The fog lamps are the marker lamps in the main headlights and work. Those fog lamps were an option for the truck which it did not come with. I will NOT pay for the those lights. If you take the truck out at night without the daytime running lamps on and turn the fog lamp switch on the extra lights in the main headlight will go on. "

For the record, I don't believe this for a second, but to be safe before I reply, I was hoping some of you with '03 models could confirm that the above is incorrect.

The first reason I don't think it could possibly be true is because it is illegal in many states (including PA where I live) to have lights on the car that don't work. I looked on Toyota's website, and it clearly states that the fog lights are standard equipment on all 4Runner option packages in 2007, and doesn't list any other types of "optional" fog lamps. I just need to make sure that is the case for 2003 as well, which would give me grounds to get the money from him to cover the repair.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Matt

 

[cdoyle]

I just bought a 2003 4Runner V8 4WD Sport. When I received it, I discovered that the fog light switch on the light stalk wasn't doing anything. I took it to the dealership, and they told me that the entire fog light assembly was missing. So I spoke to the person I bought it from asking him to pay to fix this, and this was his reply

"The fog lamps are not in the place where they look like they should be, those are on the cars for decoration. The fog lamps are the marker lamps in the main headlights and work. Those fog lamps were an option for the truck which it did not come with. I will NOT pay for the those lights. If you take the truck out at night without the daytime running lamps on and turn the fog lamp switch on the extra lights in the main headlight will go on. "

For the record, I don't believe this for a second, but to be safe before I reply, I was hoping some of you with '03 models could confirm that the above is incorrect.

The first reason I don't think it could possibly be true is because it is illegal in many states (including PA where I live) to have lights on the car that don't work. I looked on Toyota's website, and it clearly states that the fog lights are standard equipment on all 4Runner option packages in 2007, and doesn't list any other types of "optional" fog lamps. I just need to make sure that is the case for 2003 as well, which would give me grounds to get the money from him to cover the repair.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Matt

Can you post pics of what's missing?

What extra lights in the headlight assy? The parking lights?

I always thought the fog lights (down near the turn/DRL's) were standard on all models.

That seems really fishy, but I may be wrong.

 

[speedracer33]

Re: Re: Fog Light question - need help ASAP

Can you post pics of what's missing?

What extra lights in the headlight assy? The parking lights?

I always thought the fog lights (down near the turn/DRL's) were standard on all models.

That seems really fishy, but I may be wrong.

A pic won't help unfortunately. The fog light lenses (and yes, I'm talking about the lower ones next to the turn signals) are there so a photo of the front of the car would look normal, but there is pretty much nothing behind it. In other words, even if I got the bulbs, there would be nothing to plug them into...

Matt

 

[tkr128]

That is weird, sport editions have always come with foglights. The only models that did NOT come with foglights were early 2003 SR5's (made before March/April of 2003), it was an option.

 

[speedracer33]

That is weird, sport editions have always come with foglights. The only models that did NOT come with foglights were early 2003 SR5's (made before March/April of 2003), it was an option.

Ah, that might be where he is getting his bullshit from! Good info, thanks!

Is there any kind of secondary light in the main headlight cluster though? Also, can you think of any idea why my sport model wouldn't have the light assemblies in it?

 

[Koz]

Have your VIN #, and go to the Stealer's parts dept. Ask if they could use the VIN # to indicate what was standard equip on that vehicle. They also may be able to see fog light set-ups on the microfiche (I usually ask if I could see the diagrams). You could also write to Toyota headquarters and ask them. I would make sure fog lights were standard, since there were SR5s that did not have them on some early 03s!

:corn:

Koz

 

[LandShark]

I have an 03 SR5. It does not have the fog lights but it does have the wiring behind where they should be. If you have a fog light switch on your headlight/turn signal stalk then check and see if you have a fog light relay in the relay box in your engine compartment. If you have both of those then there should be wiring behind the turn signal lenses for fogs.

 

[sharp4runr]

I wouldn't give it too much thought. The factory fogs kind of suck anyways so you really aren't missing much. Like TKR128 said, the early 2003 SR5s did not come with factory fog lights. They later became standard equipment. A previous owner may have put the fog light assemblies on, then didn't realize that the wiring was not in place. I know that jharris2 doesn't have the foglights so you can ask if he's got the switch on the stem.

 

[jharris2]

I also have a 2003 SR5 without fog lights, and it doesn't have the wiring (very early production model). Perhaps the original owner is referring to the amber cornering lamps in the headlight assembly. When you turn the headlights on, the daytime running lights go off and these come on. But I have not yet seen a 4th generation 4Runner with fog lamp lenses that didn't have them working....

 

[Offroader]

My friend, simply take it to any technician, and put aftermarket wire, relay and switch to those foglights.

By the way, I sometimes wish they weren't there, they are the worst foglights I've ever seen.

 

[boston_kevin]

Supid question, but since toyota put the switch in the car, shouldn't it follow that the vehicle originally had those lights? Otherwise, wouldn't they put in switches for heated seats in SR5 and SE's based on the same logic?

Sounds like this guy probably bought it from the dealer and perhaps the vehicle was shipped without it for some reason, and the dealer gave him the same verbage... I'd follow Koz's instructions and find out what the vehicle was shipped with.

 

[toybox]

Do you know if the truck was in an accident? Maybe it was and they didn't fix it right.

All the Sports had fog lights and if you got the switch on the stalk then they certainly should have the wiring also.

Oh and the marker lights are just that, marker lights. They are located in the headlights and are NOT fog lights.

 

[Offroader]

Just take it to a car electrician.

 

[speedracer33]

Do you know if the truck was in an accident? Maybe it was and they didn't fix it right.

That's what I'm thinking. This was an ebay purchase (I know, cue the "I told you so" and "that's what you get for buying on ebay" chorus), that appears to have been bought at auction. It was advertised as never been hit, etc but I'm guessing it was. I did have an independent inspector check it out, and he came back saying it was never hit, but maybe they just did a good job of putting it back together. I can't think of any other reason why the light assemblies would be missing.

I picked it up from the dealer today, and now they work, but the total cost was almost $1k when it was all said and done. What I have going for me is that I even though I got it off ebay, it's a dealership and not an independent seller, so he can't just disappear. If he won't pay I'll go after him through his local chamber of commerce, ebay, and legally if I must.

Other than that, I love the thing. It's just worlds better than the POS Jeep Grand Cherokee it's replacing!

Matt

P.S. I did get the build sheet from the dealer, so thanks again for that suggestion!

 

[sharp4runr]

What!? Please don't tell me you paid $1k for the stock fog lights? You could have easily done it for much, much cheaper with something that puts out much more light.

 

[jharris2]

Since mine came without fog lights, I looked into getting them. Since mine also doesn't have the wiring, it would have been over $2,000 for parts. I decided that I didn't need them that much....

Net is, I could see the dealership charging speedracer33 $1,000.

 

[speedracer33]

What!? Please don't tell me you paid $1k for the stock fog lights? You could have easily done it for much, much cheaper with something that puts out much more light.

It was $363 per side for parts (the assembly) and $150 in labor, so $876 for the whole thing. You have to think about it from a compensation perspective. If I had gone aftermarket, I would have risked my legal right to be compensated by the seller, since I would be paying for something that wasn't on the original car, nor should have been. By putting the stock fog lights in, I am restoring the car to the condition "as indicated" by the ad.

Matt

 

[loner]

Speedracer,

Would you care to share with us the link to the eBay auction for your 4Runner?


Shoulda, coulda, woulda.... but the OEM fog assemblies can be found very cheap (well, relatively) on eBay, and they're pretty easy to install. In fact, I have one for sale on eBay right now, in case anyone out there is interested :driving:

 

[speedracer33]

Speedracer,

Would you care to share with us the link to the eBay auction for your 4Runner?

Sure:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...m=280033627754&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=018

This paragraph is the key here. Note that it says no signs of collision damage, but doesn't say no damage. I actually didn't catch that until now. Regardless, I'll bold the parts where the condition was not as advertised:

Become the second owner of this well-kept automobile. The mileage represented on this vehicle is accurate. Clean smell througout, appears to have never been smoked in. No signs of collision damage are evident on this vehicle. This is a beautifully maintained vehicle - free of any present collision flaws. Not only are there no door dings on this vehicle, it will roll out of our showroom detailed, looking and smelling new. Even though it was not kept in the garage, it is very clean. This vehicle shifts out great and is remarkably quiet. Starts fast and runs flawlessly with smooth acceleration. All power equipment on this vehicle is in working order. Not a single defect on this vehicle. Very minor exterior blemishes - overall very clean vehicle. Interior is clean and well taken care of. The tires will last for years on this vehicle. WHAT A GREAT TRUCK!!! SPORT EDITION, GREAT COLOR... MY PERSONAL TRUCK THE LAST 3 MONTHS! BUY WITH CONFIDENCE!!!

 

[loner]

Well, there ya go. The ad stated there were absolutely no defects and that all power equipment worked.

I'm confused, though.... It sure looks like the fog lamp housings are there in the pictures. Even the projector lens is visible. What exactly was missing? Was the wiring present?

By the way, nice snipe with 45 seconds left in the auction. I like your strategy.