Stick Figure
New member
very simple, for those demanding a V8 option, would you consider a V6 engine with a supercharger or turbocharger set up as a viable compromise for the lack of the V8 engine choice?
for those demanding a V8 option.....
- Thread starter Stick Figure
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Here is what I said in the V8 discussion thread...
For me... power, capability and efficiency are much more important than something as simple as cylinder count.
Stick Figure
New member
what if it was an aftermarket option? as apposed to something directly from Toyota? assuming 100% carb exception etc.
sandcrawler
Senior Member
same here: it's not a "V8 badge" thing. if the available power and torque are there, cylinder count is immaterial.
Absolutely not. No way would I go out and buy a new vehicle that would not meet my needs and have to void the warranty to get the power. A manufacturer that met my needs would get my business.
It's not that I am against modding. I mod my sports cars for the fun of it when they are out of warranty.
Thankfully, I don't have to care anything about CARB and hope I never do...
sandcrawler
Senior Member
ditto.
Stick Figure
New member
i hear ya ..... i guess i'm a bit different in that even if a bought a brand new vehicle i wouldn't want to take it in for warranty work. If it was a $100 part, or they would give the part for free, i would do it myself just to know what was done, and how it was done. I had nothing but problems taking my Lexus in for even the most minor of things (cd changer and seat belt squeak). Never again.
Absolutely not. The best turbo direct injection motors are those built from the ground up, like Ford's Ecoboost.
progress4m
Member
No, I do not like overworked engines… especially when you tow in 100+ degrees weather in Texas.
Superchargers and turbochargers are bringing complexity and usually lower engine reliability: not a good combination for remote trip and towing vehicle.
Do not get me wrong, I know the capability of V6 engines. I came from “V6 club”. Had 2-nd and 3-rd gen 4Runners before, not counting other brands of SUV with V6 or I6…. And I towed with them as well…
But you can’t substitute V8 with V6 without losing something (considering that they both are modern engines and use similar technology).
Low end torque and smoothness of V8 is there by default and VVt-I gives it extra “big plus” on the top, you cannot compare that to V6… that is not fare comparison.
sandcrawler
Senior Member
i can appreciate the "V8 = simplicity; turbocharged V6 = complexity" sentiment. and, in truth, since Toyota is already stuffing the 4.6 V8 into the GX on the other side of the same plant (figuratively, if not literally) it doesn't make much sense to go reinventing the wheel—just put it in the 4runner too. when you compare the two vehicles, it's not unreasonable to speculate that the 4runner would still achieve reasonable fuel economy.
think it's fair to say the 4.6 V8 is the simplest solution, but i'm willing to keep an open mind. and while on the subject of OEM superchargers, recent reviews for the new, eco-boosted ford Taurus SHO are impressive to say the least.
think it's fair to say the 4.6 V8 is the simplest solution, but i'm willing to keep an open mind. and while on the subject of OEM superchargers, recent reviews for the new, eco-boosted ford Taurus SHO are impressive to say the least.
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The capability to produce impressive turbocharged engines has been around for a while. The reliability that has been demonstrated in the last couple years shows how relevant and practical they are. For most people, it was just not seen as worth the effort (and a little more cost) to produce when most people are happy with, and expect, a V8. Most of the early adoption for this type of thing in gasoline engines is with the turbo inline 4 replacing a bigger V6 (or even V8). Think of the the Subaru STi, the Mitsu Evo, and even the Ford Focus RS (which Ford hasn't made available to the US). All of these are I-4s making 300+hp without any issue.
It is now starting to pick up with the V6s. Think of the SHO with a 3.5L making 365hp, and the 3.8L Nissan GTR making 485hp.
All of these earlier adopters are putting them on the top end of their lines, but things are quickly flowing down, and a large portion of the product offerings will have a turbo within the next 10 years. Some are even saying the majority will be turbo in the next 5 years.
A turbo 4.0L V6 producing 300hp+ with plenty of torque would be easy, and could be done with low boost levels and VERY little stress on the motor. I would have no reservations about a motor like that.
FWIW, I am working on a engine design now that is a turbo 4L 6 cylinder gasoline engine and has power targets of 550hp.
JB.
New member
In this mild implementation, how much effect would it have on low end torque?
The turbocharged Ford Ecoboost V6 has incredible torque, with a flat 350 ft-lb from low RPM to high.
I have no problem with turbocharged, direct injection engines. They can provide just as much power and torque as a V8, with outstanding torque curves. But they are significantly more expensive.
More importantly, these are not aftermarket (or even manufacturer) bolt-ons. They are designed in from the get-go.
wolfgang
New member
How about a low emission turbo diesel (5 or 6 cylinder) for those looking for high torque for towing and off road hill climbing. Shame all the good diesels are German - MB and VW! Toyota makes decent diesels for other countries - why not the US? Oh and I want it with a 6 speed automatic and selectable 4WD (maual front hubs are just fine by me).
Look up URD. They are well immersed in the 1GR family. It's not a matter of producing the parts, it's the tuning that is the hard part. Their kit for the 05-08 Tacoma made 422 RWHP with no internal work.
My X-Runner made 332 and 351 whp and wtq in July in Florida. Full torque at 2200 rpm from a fully backed, factory warrantied TRD supercharger. My truck beat a TrailBlazer SS and a C5 vette with exhaust. I still got 21mpg in the city.
Personally I do hope that they make a kit for our new V6. I beat plenty of "sport" vehicles when I had a stock truck, So I can only inagine the pep of the new 1GR.
My X-Runner made 332 and 351 whp and wtq in July in Florida. Full torque at 2200 rpm from a fully backed, factory warrantied TRD supercharger. My truck beat a TrailBlazer SS and a C5 vette with exhaust. I still got 21mpg in the city.
Personally I do hope that they make a kit for our new V6. I beat plenty of "sport" vehicles when I had a stock truck, So I can only inagine the pep of the new 1GR.
Toyota was working on a light-duty diesel for the Tundra, but canceled it. Ford and GM were also working on light-duty diesels for their full-size pickup trucks. The pickup market is significantly larger than the mid-size SUV market, but all three manufacturers decided they couldn't make money on it. With Toyota expecting to sell 15-20,000 4Runners per year, there simply isn't any way they could make money selling a diesel 4Runner -- they would never be able to recoup the development costs.
I'd love a turbo-diesel 4Runner, but it just isn't going to happen for at least 4 years. Maybe when stricter CAFE rules go into effect.
The system could be designed for boost just off idle. This type of engine would be designed for response and torque, not top end power. That's why the hp number seems so low comapred to the other engines I cited. Its a whole diffferent set of design goals when doing the torque shaping. Think of a similar type of performance charactaristics as a Diesel (but this is oversimplified).
Exactly, an OEM turbo setup means that many components and systems in the vehicle get altered and uprated components to be able to handle all the corner conditions. It is designed in.
I hope there is great aftermarket support for the V6 so guys can play all they want.
snap315
New member
Why can't Toyota develop a V6 comparable to what Acura, Chevy, and now Ford have done?!?
They ALL have a V6 that puts out 300+ HP without a turbo or supercharger!
:redbrick:
The Acura MDX engine has been around for several YEARS so this isn't something new.
And it beats the 5th Gen V6 in torgue numbers too!
:roadkill:
They ALL have a V6 that puts out 300+ HP without a turbo or supercharger!
:redbrick:
The Acura MDX engine has been around for several YEARS so this isn't something new.
And it beats the 5th Gen V6 in torgue numbers too!
:roadkill:
The 2GR-FSE is a 305 HP 3.5L Toyota (Lexus) V6. The torque curve for it suits a car much better than a heavy vehicle like a 4Runner, though. Peak numbers mean nothing. BTW, the MDX, while being a unibody CUV instead of a BoF SUV, gets WORSE fuel economy than the 4Runner. It also requires premium to do that.
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