Ford Raptor Ranger
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Thai
Elite Member
Toyota needs to take its truck more seriously IMHO. The other brands are just blowing right past them in pretty much every category...luxury to off-road. Ford has done their homework with their F150/F250 range of models.
My next car purchase may very well be a F150 Diesel Platinum with FX4 off-road package. My brother is already going to get F250 within the next month or two.
EDIT: Toyota still with its super duper C-frame and drum freaking rear brakes!!!
My next car purchase may very well be a F150 Diesel Platinum with FX4 off-road package. My brother is already going to get F250 within the next month or two.
EDIT: Toyota still with its super duper C-frame and drum freaking rear brakes!!!
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SwayzeExpress
New member
Looks sweet! I won't be in the new truck market for hopefully a decade but that's a killer ad
Wonder why they will out cash for a helicopter to video over drones?
Either way I have a buddy who will love this truck depending on the $
Wonder why they will out cash for a helicopter to video over drones?
Either way I have a buddy who will love this truck depending on the $
Bumbo
New member
Between the Raptor Ranger and the Colorado ZR2 which has super fancy shocks, front and rear lockers... Toyota has their work cut-out for them on the Tacoma.
Toyotas problem is they are too damn conservative. Even the TRD Pro models don't really have anything special going for them aside for upgraded shocks, the interior/ergo is dated and still setup for the smallest of drivers.
Yet... their engineers like to flex mussel by building products like the $400k LFA and the 2000HP Land Speed Cruiser... Yes, both truly amazing engineering accomplishments, but also made from unobtainium.
Perhaps they should spend that engineering time making shit people actually want to buy.
To be honest the wife and I wanted a Land Cruiser for a long time, we even decided its our next big purchase... but then we both realized that a Ford Raptor was literally a better option. Not only am I going to get way more truck, way more capability, power, and fun... ill end up saving 20-30k on top of it. Fords biggest problem is they can't make em fast enough.
Toyotas problem is they are too damn conservative. Even the TRD Pro models don't really have anything special going for them aside for upgraded shocks, the interior/ergo is dated and still setup for the smallest of drivers.
Yet... their engineers like to flex mussel by building products like the $400k LFA and the 2000HP Land Speed Cruiser... Yes, both truly amazing engineering accomplishments, but also made from unobtainium.
Perhaps they should spend that engineering time making shit people actually want to buy.
To be honest the wife and I wanted a Land Cruiser for a long time, we even decided its our next big purchase... but then we both realized that a Ford Raptor was literally a better option. Not only am I going to get way more truck, way more capability, power, and fun... ill end up saving 20-30k on top of it. Fords biggest problem is they can't make em fast enough.
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Bumbo
New member
Never buy the first one of anything...
Even the first Raptor has issues... but all that seems to be ironed out now with huge improvements to motor and frame.
Bleaper!
New member
Helicopters are a dime a dozen over in Australia. Maybe just availability??
fogcitysurfer
New member
Are you looking at the Gen 2?
Bumbo
New member
I honestly have a hard time trying to figure out if this is serious, or some sort of sarcastic remark.
Its such a stupid statement that I have to consider it to be sarcastic.
Literally add 6112's on a 4Runner or Fox 2.5s on a Tacoma, and you have yourself a TurdPro.
The trucks just not that special... :sorry:
They couldn't even include a Front Locking Diff... I find it laudable that GM is bringing more to the table in the compact truck segment than a company who literally dominated that space this entire time. Now you got Ford upping the ante with the Ranger. The problem is Toyota still THINKS they got top spot and they have a customer base who is just too brand loyal. I don't care about brand... ill buy whats good.
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Bumbo
New member
If you are referring to the Raptor yes... I very much like the boosted 6, beefed up chassis, aluminum frame, 10 speed transmission with paddle shifters, the aggressive drive line with a Torsen front diff.
They really did that truck up the right way.
I got under one this past weekend and really impressed with how the suspension is layed out. Some real meat on those front control arms.
aa.allen
New member
Mehhh after my wife's Expedition I won't have another Ford product. Even minor maintenance is a pain. We have had issues after issue with lug studs. My wife's cousin has the same year model expedition and she las had the same lug nut issues so it's not just our bad luck. 02 sensors don't last as long as I feel they should. Coworker has a F-150 a couple years older than our expedition he has the same issues again not just us.
It tows really well I will give it that
I honestly don't see my self buying another vehicle from the American Big 3 anytime soon. I'll deal with drum brakes to know that my Toyota is going to be around at 25 years and 300,000 miles. My 4Runner has 220,000K miles I doubt this expedition sees 220 and my '05 Colorado was ready for the scrap yard at 151,000K and 6 years.
It tows really well I will give it that
I honestly don't see my self buying another vehicle from the American Big 3 anytime soon. I'll deal with drum brakes to know that my Toyota is going to be around at 25 years and 300,000 miles. My 4Runner has 220,000K miles I doubt this expedition sees 220 and my '05 Colorado was ready for the scrap yard at 151,000K and 6 years.
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Bumbo
New member
I'm one of Fords biggest critics...
I've never owned one, but recently their product line and quality seem to be heading in the right direction.
I have a Honda x 2, Acura, Toyota x 2, Chevy Silverado, Suzuki, and a Yamaha ATV... and never once in that time frame I considered buying a Ford haha.
My brother loves the brand and after checking out the new GT, Focus RS, Raptor, and now the Ranger... They won me over for the 1st time.
They are making strides in every segment, taking risk, and putting money where their mouth is.
I was actually so impressed with them that I have been buying their stock instead of their cars. Maybe in a few years or so ill get a free Raptor.
The times are a changing...
BUT...BUT.... maybe after my first Ford ill be like you too and curse them off for good. That said, if I do try something from them, I prefer it a Raptor and not an Escort.
I've never owned one, but recently their product line and quality seem to be heading in the right direction.
I have a Honda x 2, Acura, Toyota x 2, Chevy Silverado, Suzuki, and a Yamaha ATV... and never once in that time frame I considered buying a Ford haha.
My brother loves the brand and after checking out the new GT, Focus RS, Raptor, and now the Ranger... They won me over for the 1st time.
They are making strides in every segment, taking risk, and putting money where their mouth is.
I was actually so impressed with them that I have been buying their stock instead of their cars. Maybe in a few years or so ill get a free Raptor.
The times are a changing...
BUT...BUT.... maybe after my first Ford ill be like you too and curse them off for good. That said, if I do try something from them, I prefer it a Raptor and not an Escort.
aa.allen
New member
My first and last We sold our Yukon XL went and drove a Suburban and a Yukon XL we HATED them both. I was planing on a Suburban to start with, found the Expedition liked it at the time. Walked away with the Expedition and $4,600 from a crew cab Silverado we traded in that I inherited when my dad passed away so I felt like I came out ok. We just have not been pleased with it since. I wish the 3rd row Sequoia had cargo room enough for a family of 6.
RUNTHAT
New member
:spam2:
BlackWorksInc
New member
Toyota has become big enough that the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing so to speak. I'm sure US Toyota is wanting to make a competitor, but Japan Toyota is slowly trying to make everything like a Prius despite it's claims that's not what they want. The on-going drama I get bits and pieces of from FTS and other Toyota guys above the dealership just astonishes me at how Toyota manages to function at all (actually I'm not sure why I'm surprised given how much stupid crap keeps filtering down from up top and how much Toyota seems to not get stuff done right anymore...)
The C-Frame isn't actually a bad thing per-say, I've gone back and forth with a couple people on this and it really comes down to the specific design/construction of each frame and it's application (I was very much pro-boxed frame on everything before really talking numbers, metallurgy, engineering, and manufacturing with some guys). For example a lot of commercial vehicles that handle a lot of weight and are in service for easily a million or more miles run a C-Channel frame, if Boxed was just better in every way you'd see these vehicles running exclusively Boxed units by necessity. I'm not saying C-Channel is better than Box or that Box is better than C-Channel; just that it's not cut & dry in that comparison is all.
That being said, the Hilux uses a completely boxed frame so why Toyota continued that with the 3rd gen Tacoma is beyond me; realistically I would think that since they're basically using a modified Prado 150 frame, they'd be better off just boxing the damn thing anyways. Though rust/corrosion prevention seems to be the typical issue with the US made BOF offerings from Toyota than frame issues (we haven't seen too many guys in the Tundras/Tacomas really messing up their frames and in our area they're treating them like F250's with towing/weight and such... which they really aren't, let's be honest here).
I agree on the Rear drums, I've heard that they still are competitive with disc brakes in a rear application; honestly I'm not convinced of that these days. Sure commercial vehicles use drum brakes (well air-brakes, but roughly similar in operation in regards to a shoe contacting a drum vs. pads contacting a disc), but I think outside of those applications most disc brake systems out perform drums (I could be wrong on that, but I just don't see many passenger trucks really retaining those anymore).
I actually have been interested in how the F-150's have been doing going forward, the first gen Ecoboosts had issues in those vehicles from what a few Ford techs have mentioned to me. The 2nd gen seems to have significantly less issues and while I'm still not entirely sure about the Aluminum body & bed (they should just come standard with a bed liner to avoid that embarrassment from the Chevy commercial, easy solution and would have saved them some trouble) Ford is streamlining the repair/cost aspect of it to make it a rather viable alternative to steel even if you do encounter issues. Chevy is supposedly playing with polymer panels & cabs, it's an odd world we live in; Toyota ha
But so far I'd say the F-150's are a nice product and package and on top of that Ford gets diversification, they offer everything from a base model utility truck, to a fancy wanna-be cowboy luxury model that most real truck owners wouldn't bother with, and even a high-end performance model that's actually built to handle the dirt really well. That's more than Toyota manages to do these days. If I were in the market for a truck I'd probably go with a Ford F250 or Chevy 2500 offering in Diesel, they just make a good product; the Cummins is not bad, but it's wrapped in Chrysler... enough said there.
Toyota doesn't seem to get how to make a good performance vehicle anymore or really listen/understand their customers outside of the Camry/Corolla/Prius market it seems. Sure they can do it on the Lexus side and hire a couple guys to make a 200mhp LC200, but they don't get how to make that type of vehicle to sell to a consumer. The FRS is almost a good vehicle, just about 50hp short of being an all-around amazing little sports car that can carve a mountain road and speed down a highway all at a great price (they should have let Subaru turbo it instead of forcing their D4S system on them). They just about screwed up the Tacoma, seems like every day a new ****-up comes out that needs a recall to fix a vehicle who's drivetrain is better off in a Highlander Hybrid than a small-pickup. The TRD sub-brand/trim is just a joke now, the distance between what TRD is known for and what these TRD badged vehicles really are is disappointing. Not to mention Toyota has probably screwed the pooch with the new Supra, if the FRS, Tacoma, Prius, and a couple other changes in their vehicles have shown the new Supra will most likely continue their theme of "almost there, but not quite" (as for reliability... well we'll see if BMW learns from Toyota bout reliability or if Toyota takes on BMW's lack of reliability); a shame really from a company that used to make a variety of unique and interesting vehicles and when "SR5" actually meant performance and not just base model.
The more Toyota seems to lock itself up with it's internal BS and inability to remember the things that made some of it's vehicles really awesome, the more everyone is going to pass them up. While the Tacoma is holding up mainly because of heritage and loyalty the Chevy & Ford Offerings are just about putting the Tacoma to shame at every aspect.
Wish you the best of luck on that Ford purchase, I imagine you'll be very happy with that F150. They're nice vehicles and while the Tundra isn't a bad truck, they just have more to offer. This Ford Ranger Raptor is just going to further show Toyota's lack of understanding in their customer base, the 3rd gen Tacoma has already shown they care more about CAFE Standards and making a small truck that needs to be driven like a Prius than listening to their customer base and adapting to their needs. I'm surprised that we don't have more returns/trade-ins on the Tacomas given all the issues and annoyances.
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Bumbo
New member
[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]
Good post... I learned a few things. Your post was not only educational, it was depressing.
I agree with a lot of points and the big picture stuff makes a lot of sense with Toyota. There is a disconnect over there somewhere.
I never really got it until recently but I get why there is a cult like following on the older trucks like the LC. Their new products don't really have as much of that old school TRD pedigree or heritage and it shows.
If all they did was make available international product into the US, it would actually fix a lot of things for them.
What irritates me the most is that I too get my hopes up and wait when I should just go buy something else. Another 2017, 2018, 2019 refresh thread... everyone around here seems to be sitting around hoping for something cool to happen.
The platform(s) they have now actually have a massive amount of potential to be great. They need a big push towards more aggressive vehicles, innovation, durability, saftey with the ability to work with and or turn off the nanny, and performance with their off-road roots firmly planted in design philosophy.
Good post... I learned a few things. Your post was not only educational, it was depressing.
I agree with a lot of points and the big picture stuff makes a lot of sense with Toyota. There is a disconnect over there somewhere.
I never really got it until recently but I get why there is a cult like following on the older trucks like the LC. Their new products don't really have as much of that old school TRD pedigree or heritage and it shows.
If all they did was make available international product into the US, it would actually fix a lot of things for them.
What irritates me the most is that I too get my hopes up and wait when I should just go buy something else. Another 2017, 2018, 2019 refresh thread... everyone around here seems to be sitting around hoping for something cool to happen.
The platform(s) they have now actually have a massive amount of potential to be great. They need a big push towards more aggressive vehicles, innovation, durability, saftey with the ability to work with and or turn off the nanny, and performance with their off-road roots firmly planted in design philosophy.
BlackWorksInc
New member
Yeah the C-Channel vs. Boxed thing was a bit of a eye-opener for me when I realized that depending on the context (i.e. who's making the frame and what it's designed specs are and how it's made) it can be an apples to oranges comparison when you really look at it. For example Tundra & Tacoma's C-Channel is better designed than most trucks in their class that use/used a C-Channel in the rear because their choice to have the leaf springs mounted under the frame itself vs. off to the side of the frame on mounts (like some domestic trucks) reduces torsional forces on the frame and allows them to toe in the leaf springs for more trapezoidal design to reduce sway. Is it stronger/better than a similarly boxed frame of the same thickness? Hard to say without really breaking out the calculators and getting nerdy, but it's not as weak as one might think at first glance given the difference in mounting the leaf springs and how forces distribute through the frames.
Another thing a lot of people knock the Tundra (and to a degree the Tacoma as well) for is using a Riveted frame vs a Welded Frame. That one I don't have as much information on,
I've never actually seen those rivets stretch or fail, but I did find it odd that they riveted support plates in the frame rather than welding. Perhaps it's a manufacturing decision to reduce production time or perhaps they decided that adding too many welds could affect the metallurgy and introduce weakness into the frame that might be hard to spot? I don't have much information on that particular one...
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SwayzeExpress
New member
Neat I had no idea
