Front Brakes Again after 20Kmiles
- Thread starter alaskaman
- Start date
I'd say the stock 4runner is designed for mild-offroad.
The LandCruiser is much beefier in all respects for hardcore off-roading. At least the oldschool ones.
Anyway, not to 'thread divert'
alaskaman
Senior Member
The dealership here is righteous. Replaced my tailgate control, 3rd brake light for free after chatting with Toyota at about 100kmiles. I have no beef with them. It's the product Toyota tells them to use is the real cheater imho. Will see, I have asked a lot from this dealer and they have stepped up each time.
Tooltime19
New member
Im the 2nd owner of my 08. It had 22k on it when I picked it up and all four rotors were warped to piss. Swapped out all rotors with high quality Power Slot, Slotted rotors and Hawk HPS brake pads. Problem solved! Today, I have 120k on it and still running the same slotted rotors from Power Slot, now owned by Centric. Later on, I actually removed the front dust shields to help reduce operating temps out here in the hot desert southwest fast sandy silty off road trails.
One thing I dont like about the brakes on our rigs is how close the dust shields are to the rotors. With that, I also notice the venting doesnt seem adequate. Every time I do a service on my rig I use compressed air to gently blow out the front and rear rotors. I use brake cleaner to keep the pistons and boots free or dirt and debris. When I blow out the rear rotors, I get a ton of dirt from inside the veins of the rear rotors. This alone tells me there is not adequate airflow to the rotors. It appears the slotted rotors help coupled with my 5k service of blowing out the rotors and servicing the pistons and boots. The fronts have little to nothing in the veins now that I removed the front dust shields when I do my services. FWIW
One thing I dont like about the brakes on our rigs is how close the dust shields are to the rotors. With that, I also notice the venting doesnt seem adequate. Every time I do a service on my rig I use compressed air to gently blow out the front and rear rotors. I use brake cleaner to keep the pistons and boots free or dirt and debris. When I blow out the rear rotors, I get a ton of dirt from inside the veins of the rear rotors. This alone tells me there is not adequate airflow to the rotors. It appears the slotted rotors help coupled with my 5k service of blowing out the rotors and servicing the pistons and boots. The fronts have little to nothing in the veins now that I removed the front dust shields when I do my services. FWIW
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Bstrom
New member
I have learned that the Centric rotors are a three tier product line. The cheapest are just that - the Premiums are their least legit rotor and the High Carbon are considered the best, although they can warp just like any other.
I'll go out on a limb and say our braking techniques do contribute to the issue. Hard stops without letting off the pedal at a stop could be enough to warp a rotor. I'm gentle on mine and haven't had the issue even after I've replaced parts.
Just be sure of the brand and quality level when you buy rotors - I got mine from Rock a few weeks ago. If they warp anytime soon, I'll be back to gripe too!
I'll go out on a limb and say our braking techniques do contribute to the issue. Hard stops without letting off the pedal at a stop could be enough to warp a rotor. I'm gentle on mine and haven't had the issue even after I've replaced parts.
Just be sure of the brand and quality level when you buy rotors - I got mine from Rock a few weeks ago. If they warp anytime soon, I'll be back to gripe too!
Tooltime19
New member
I hear a lot about caliper issues, but haven't witnessed any myself. With that, I do believe our rotors trap alot of dirt in between the rotor halves. When normal heat build up occurs and it cannot be properly vented then yes, rotor warping can occur. That and as the poster above mentioned, sitting at a light in one spot with hot rotors can cause warpage. Since I upgraded my rotors and pads along with blowing the dirt out of the rear rotors, I have not had another problem, and I drive my truck fast off road and use plenty of brake. Just like in racing, you need to cool your brakes after hard use before you put your rig to bed.
alaskaman
Senior Member
Had a call from Toyota. They asked me what my beef was and I told em. 1st brakes on front went 94k and 2nd set 19k (do the math)...obviously an inferior product given my driving. They asked me what I wanted and I said, 'replace em with decent materials". They said they would get back to me.
I've read this thread from the beginning. I just replaced the front pads on my 2010 with 70K miles on it. The old pads were still good, but I just wanted to replace them anyway. I've always used organic pads on every vehicle I've owned. My theory has been that the softer organic pads are less punishing on the rotors. I had an 85 T4R with 250K miles on it and never changed a rotor, only organic pads about every 70K-80K miles. I'm hoping to have similar results with this one. I hope Toyota comes through for you on this one, good luck.
BlackWorksInc
New member
But were they GMO-Free and Free-Range brake pads?
I wouldn't be worried about being hard on the rotors, they can take some punishment and are not designed to be lifetime parts. Quality replacement rotors are not expensive if you look around. The only issue I have with the organic stuff is that it doesn't strike me as aggressive/abrasive enough as the semi-metallic pads. Keep in mind brakes are basically sandpaper clamped to steel, you're not going to get as much "grip" by using fine sandpaper vs. coarser sandpaper with the same amount of clamping force.
But then again I'm of the school of "when it comes to tires and brakes you should never skimp out."
alaskaman
Senior Member
Toyota won't pay for the new brakes and I get that. They replaced the 3rd brake light on the back at 104k miles so that was my gimme. If you have a link to those pads I would like to see if they can be put on my 07.
Thanks
BrakeBest Brakes D976 - Brake Pads | O'Reilly Auto Parts
These are the organics I just put on my 2010
These are the organics I just put on my 2010
alaskaman
Senior Member
Finally talked with a senior service guy who explained that Toyota has 2 level of pads good and best. I must have gotten the "good" ones as the brake job was about $185.00. The best costs $350.00. He said that he was surprised that the lesser price option only lasted 19k miles. Inferior product surely.
nevada
Senior Member
have you actually seen the pads? I cannot believe they are worn out already. not unless you have other mechanical problems causing the calipers to stay engaged.
jpless
New member
Its the same old problem! about 2 years ago, I replaced the factory brakes. New pads, rotors and calipers up front. I had gone with plain reybestos rotors and green stuff 7000s up front, plain reybostos and Akebono ProActs in the rear. I had actually ordered two sets of the front EBC pads, so I had to run over to Advance and get the ProActs for the rears while my truck was up on stands.
6 months later, my fronts were badly warped. I figured it was due to using the 7000s on plain rotors, too much pad for the rotor. Since I had the extra set of the 7000s sitting around, I decided to get EBC slotted USRs. about 18 months later (present day), my fronts were warped again. I just went to sears and had them put on wenger rotors and Akebono ProActs. Turned out that my calipers were seized as well, so I had to get those replaced too.
Yes, I could have done it myself but I figured that I ultimately spent more on doing 2 brake jobs in about 6 months. At least if these warp in the next 18 months or 18,000 miles, Sears will replace them for free.
Now, I know our 4runners have horrible problems with these brakes but its not just us. When I did full brake job 2 years ago, I replaced my wife's highlander's fronts. I had a shop do it for convenience, while I was doing mine. when I had to re-do my fronts 6 months later, I had the shop do her rears as well. Last December, he rears started making a little noise and within a week, they were badly grinding. I was very surprised that her rears went out before her fronts, especially when they newer! I've never seen rear brakes go so quickly. Usually, you can get through at least 2 sets of fronts before replacing the rears.
I had no idea the 5th gen fixed brake issues! Wish I had known a couple weeks ago, I would have used 5th gen replacements when I did the fronts again! Such is life...next time...unless by that point I'm able to trade in and get a used 5th gen trd pro!
6 months later, my fronts were badly warped. I figured it was due to using the 7000s on plain rotors, too much pad for the rotor. Since I had the extra set of the 7000s sitting around, I decided to get EBC slotted USRs. about 18 months later (present day), my fronts were warped again. I just went to sears and had them put on wenger rotors and Akebono ProActs. Turned out that my calipers were seized as well, so I had to get those replaced too.
Yes, I could have done it myself but I figured that I ultimately spent more on doing 2 brake jobs in about 6 months. At least if these warp in the next 18 months or 18,000 miles, Sears will replace them for free.
Now, I know our 4runners have horrible problems with these brakes but its not just us. When I did full brake job 2 years ago, I replaced my wife's highlander's fronts. I had a shop do it for convenience, while I was doing mine. when I had to re-do my fronts 6 months later, I had the shop do her rears as well. Last December, he rears started making a little noise and within a week, they were badly grinding. I was very surprised that her rears went out before her fronts, especially when they newer! I've never seen rear brakes go so quickly. Usually, you can get through at least 2 sets of fronts before replacing the rears.
I had no idea the 5th gen fixed brake issues! Wish I had known a couple weeks ago, I would have used 5th gen replacements when I did the fronts again! Such is life...next time...unless by that point I'm able to trade in and get a used 5th gen trd pro!
YimBANNED3TIMES
Banned
did you ask to see them(the brakes) when they were taken apart/in the shop? Maybe they were "warped" but maybe they just wanted your money when you didn't need the brake job..... Trust me, it even happens at big shops and dealerships. I went the other day for a $89 inspection about 45 mins after my buddy's shop did a oil change, and the service guys argued with me for about 20 mins on how I really need a oil change, ended up leaving.
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jpless
New member
YimBANNED3TIMES, if you're asking me, no I didnt. On my recent brake work, Sears even said there was plenty of pad and rotor left but I knew they were warped with the extremely violent brake shake. They did show me the seized caliper, so everything made sense. They also brought me back and showed me my torn CV, that I went ahead and had them replace.
On my wife's highlander, again, i didn't see the worn parts but i could feel and hear they were shot.
you are right though, sometimes a "warped" rotor is actually uneven pad transfer to the rotor and resurfacing the rotor can fix that.
FWIW, replacing my brakes stopped my brake shake but not my highway speed shake. Replacing the CV and being very anal about the balancing and alignment fixed that. I think I had sears realign 3 times throughout the week, during which they first did full front brakes and alignment, then cv and alignment, then i brought it back again for balance/rotate and another alignment and it was all good after that. I'm babying my brakes now and trying to get into the habit of not resting on them at a stop. Long lights, I'll throw it into park. Pulling up to a light, I'll brake lightly and throw it into neutral until I stop. Then, I can often just leave it in neutral with my foot resting on the brake, but not applying unless needed.
I've also banned my wife from driving my truck until I've put at least 500 miles on it with the new brakes.
Having multiple drivers of a vehicle, especially while wearing in new brakes, can also lead to uneven pad transfer and/or warping. Kind of like shoes...you don't let someone else wear your new shoes because you want to wear them in and have them mold to your feet. Once molded, someone else could wear them without completely reshaping the sole, but it does mess it up a little. I also have to admit that my wife hard stops a lot more than I do. I drive to enjoy it, she drives to get there.
On my wife's highlander, again, i didn't see the worn parts but i could feel and hear they were shot.
you are right though, sometimes a "warped" rotor is actually uneven pad transfer to the rotor and resurfacing the rotor can fix that.
FWIW, replacing my brakes stopped my brake shake but not my highway speed shake. Replacing the CV and being very anal about the balancing and alignment fixed that. I think I had sears realign 3 times throughout the week, during which they first did full front brakes and alignment, then cv and alignment, then i brought it back again for balance/rotate and another alignment and it was all good after that. I'm babying my brakes now and trying to get into the habit of not resting on them at a stop. Long lights, I'll throw it into park. Pulling up to a light, I'll brake lightly and throw it into neutral until I stop. Then, I can often just leave it in neutral with my foot resting on the brake, but not applying unless needed.
I've also banned my wife from driving my truck until I've put at least 500 miles on it with the new brakes.
Having multiple drivers of a vehicle, especially while wearing in new brakes, can also lead to uneven pad transfer and/or warping. Kind of like shoes...you don't let someone else wear your new shoes because you want to wear them in and have them mold to your feet. Once molded, someone else could wear them without completely reshaping the sole, but it does mess it up a little. I also have to admit that my wife hard stops a lot more than I do. I drive to enjoy it, she drives to get there.
