Brake Issue

[Moist]

Good Evening,

I have had some pretty awful brake noise since I got my brakes redone a few years back. New rotors, calipers, pads, lines, and cables just about the entire system was replaced.

2 or 3 years later, the squealing still persists. But when leaving target about a week ago, the truck was really bogging down and making a ton of noise. I figured one of the brakes was stuck, got her up to 25 and engaged the ABS. It unstuck the brake and drove home.

I tore it apart today with the help of a good friend of mine, and the front brakes were fine minutes the fact that the low pad indicator springs were completely missing. Neither of the front brakes were bad, both with 8mm of pad left and the rotors in amazing shape.

When inspecting the rest of the car, he had noticed that the Rear Left brake was yellowing. I noticed that it was grooving. Bad. We jacked it up, removed the wheel and there is less than 2mm of pad left and the rotors are incredibly thin and have noticeable warping. Additionally there was no grease inside of the bolts on the upper and lower bolts.

EDIT: The Right Rear has about 8mm of pad left too. The rotor is great as well

What should I do? Would replacing just that rotor, caliper, and pads cause some adverse handling effects? I'm not taking it to the dealership to be serviced since they can't even change my oil without f***ing it up.

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[AuSeeker]

Good Evening,

I have had some pretty awful brake noise since I got my brakes redone a few years back. New rotors, calipers, pads, lines, and cables just about the entire system was replaced.

2 or 3 years later, the squealing still persists. But when leaving target about a week ago, the truck was really bogging down and making a ton of noise. I figured one of the brakes was stuck, got her up to 25 and engaged the ABS. It unstuck the brake and drove home.

I tore it apart today with the help of a good friend of mine, and the front brakes were fine minutes the fact that the low pad indicator springs were completely missing. Neither of the front brakes were bad, both with 8mm of pad left and the rotors in amazing shape.

When inspecting the rest of the car, he had noticed that the Rear Left brake was yellowing. I noticed that it was grooving. Bad. We jacked it up, removed the wheel and there is less than 2mm of pad left and the rotors are incredibly thin and have noticeable warping. Additionally there was no grease inside of the bolts on the upper and lower bolts.

What should I do? Would replacing just that rotor, caliper, and pads cause some adverse handling effects? I'm not taking it to the dealership to be serviced since they can't even change my oil without f***ing it up.

Any help is much appreciated.

That left rear is already having adverse affects on how the brakes perform, so replacing it can only be better than it is now.

 

[grumpy02]

Your truck, your money, but I would NEVER replace brakes on one side only. I might reuse the passenger side caliper if it is working properly.

 

[AuSeeker]

Good Evening,

I have had some pretty awful brake noise since I got my brakes redone a few years back. New rotors, calipers, pads, lines, and cables just about the entire system was replaced.

2 or 3 years later, the squealing still persists. But when leaving target about a week ago, the truck was really bogging down and making a ton of noise. I figured one of the brakes was stuck, got her up to 25 and engaged the ABS. It unstuck the brake and drove home.

I tore it apart today with the help of a good friend of mine, and the front brakes were fine minutes the fact that the low pad indicator springs were completely missing. Neither of the front brakes were bad, both with 8mm of pad left and the rotors in amazing shape.

When inspecting the rest of the car, he had noticed that the Rear Left brake was yellowing. I noticed that it was grooving. Bad. We jacked it up, removed the wheel and there is less than 2mm of pad left and the rotors are incredibly thin and have noticeable warping. Additionally there was no grease inside of the bolts on the upper and lower bolts.

What should I do? Would replacing just that rotor, caliper, and pads cause some adverse handling effects? I'm not taking it to the dealership to be serviced since they can't even change my oil without f***ing it up.

Any help is much appreciated.

Your truck, your money, but I would NEVER replace brakes on one side only. I might reuse the passenger side caliper if it is working properly.

I agree, but I wouldn't replace the rotor on the right side either unless it looks bad but I would install new pads since he would have them anyways.

 

[SocalSam]

Check brake line and hose to the bad side. Check caliper for debris. System could benefit from flush.

 

[Moist]

Your truck, your money, but I would NEVER replace brakes on one side only. I might reuse the passenger side caliper if it is working properly.

If you don't mind me asking, why not?

In my mind I figure that it shouldn't have too much of an effect on the braking, but then again I don't know too much about how it'd actually work.

 

[Moist]

Check brake line and hose to the bad side. Check caliper for debris. System could benefit from flush.

Willco!

Have noticed the brake fluid turning darker recently. Will buy some brake clean and investigate the line, hoses, and caliper itself.

 

[AuSeeker]

If you don't mind me asking, why not?

In my mind I figure that it shouldn't have too much of an effect on the braking, but then again I don't know too much about how it'd actually work.

Most think that both sides have to be equal as far as the exact same parts and age for the brakes to work as they should, BUT I can tell you after working on trucks and cars of all types for over 50 years that's not the case on most all vehicles, there will be a few exceptions, such as very high tech and many performance vehicles, but for the most common vehicles as long as the parts are in good working order there isn't an issue, BUT as I mentioned I would do the pads on both rears since you will have both sets of pads when you get the new pads to replace the bad side.

On disk brakes the one of the most important things is to have the calipers performing the same from side to side and with decent rotors so there's the same pressure on the pads or otherwise the vehicle can pull to one side when applying the brakes.

 

[Moist]

Most think that both sides have to be equal as far as the exact same parts and age for the brakes to work as they should, BUT I can tell you after working on trucks and cars of all types for over 50 years that's not the case on most all vehicles, there will be a few exceptions, such as very high tech and many performance vehicles, but for the most common vehicles as long as the parts are in good working order there isn't an issue, BUT as I mentioned I would do the pads on both rears since you will have both sets of pads when you get the new pads to replace the bad side.

On disk brakes the one of the most important things is to have the calipers performing the same from side to side and with decent rotors so there's the same pressure on the pads or otherwise the vehicle can pull to one side when applying the brakes.

I gotcha, I'll do some measurements with old rotors and compare them to new ones. I figure that the current 7mm difference in pad amount and the overheated, warped, grooved, and worryingly thin rotor is a thousand times worse than a 2 or so mm difference of just wedging a new rotor, caliper, and pads in there. I'll update on my findings.

It is worth noting, even with the vinyl record thickness rotor, and the <2mm pads left on this brake it doesn't seem to pull any direction under harsh braking. (At least when it ain't stuck)

Who knows maybe this is the cause of that stupid interstate speed vibration.
Will update thread soon with updates or rotor, caliper, and pad replacement.
The deadline for this will be when the pads hit metal. Then the whole assembly will be changed.
(Unless this set of brakes decides to weld itself together in a red-hot fiery glory like my last ones did.)

 

[grumpy02]

If you don't mind me asking, why not?

In my mind I figure that it shouldn't have too much of an effect on the braking, but then again I don't know too much about how it'd actually work.

That didn't come out right. I meant just replacing the pads.

 

[4R005]

[MENTION=675086]Moist[/MENTION]

I would do the following for your rear brakes.
- check rotor for warpage with dial indicator. Max out of true specs is .004"
- check thickness of rotor. Minimum thickness is .630". If rotor is warped and rotor thickness allows for machining, then have rotor machined ( cheaper than new where I live ).
- new set of pads for both sides, even if other side is in like new condition because you would want same pad material pressing on the rotors during braking to minimize uneven forces generated from dissimilar pad materials.
- replace stuck caliper with reman. or new unit.
- check good caliper's sliding pins of other side and use silicone brake grease to lubricate the pins. Do not use normal bearing grease ( lithium based ) as they dry out quickly from the high heat generated from repeated braking operations.
- Pad sliding pins to caliper: torque to 65 ft.lbs. Caliper to frame: 77 ft.lbs.
Happy wrenching.

 

[MikeinNH67]

Assuming no sticking pins, I would assume that caliper is bad or the pad is getting stuck. My reasoning for always replacing both pads at the same time is the bedding process. In my mind, I think they would bed more evenly if both sides are the same and one is not already worn in. Brake parts are cheap so I go the safe route.

 

[AuSeeker]

It is worth noting, even with the vinyl record thickness rotor, and the <2mm pads left on this brake it doesn't seem to pull any direction under harsh braking. (At least when it ain't stuck)

You shouldn't had it pulling under braking..because even if one caliper is sticking it's usually only sticking when the pressure is released and it's should be releasing the pressure on the rotor, when you apply the brakes you would still get pretty much even pressure pushing against the rotors, a sticking piston can't resist the hydraulic pressure from the master cylinder, unless it was extremely totally rusted together.

 

[Moist]

You shouldn't had it pulling under braking..because even if one caliper is sticking it's usually only sticking when the pressure is released and it's should be releasing the pressure on the rotor, when you apply the brakes you would still get pretty much even pressure pushing against the rotors, a sticking piston can't resist the hydraulic pressure from the master cylinder, unless it was extremely totally rusted together.

I understand, I haven't actually seen the piston yet. I suppose I'll see it when the new parts arrive. I decided to take Mike's advice and play it safe and just replace both sides.

It does seem to be sticking at weird intervals. Mostly after sitting for a few hours. So that makes perfect sense. I'd assume it just isn't releasing the pressure after sitting for so long.
It shouldn't have rust welded itself, it is still a fairly new caliper.
We'll see once these parts arrive. I'll report with a full postmortem on the brake.
In the meantime, I'm just gonna shrug it off until the pad is gone (again about 2mm left). OR until the pedal becomes spongy enough to worry.

I'll attach a video after classes today of this one getting totally stuck. The only reason it unsticks is ABS engaging.
Doesn't matter the brake pressure, it's just stuck full shut. Once it unsticks generally it's fine.
Additionally I'll add some photos of the actual worrisome brake.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C8nrxritwHP/ Clip of sticky brake.

 

[Moist]

This is the cause of the interstate vibration. Even when not on the brakes it causes a wobble from 55-85 ish.
I got off the interstate today doing 70 and gently got on the brakes. It sent the car into a death wobble violent enough to rip the steering wheel out of my hands.
I have tested all of the suspension components this week and aside from being old and worn, they are unable to cause a vibration this severe.
Parts are en route, I reviewed the order from two years ago and it turns out these are the original calipers. The rears were not replaced with 5th gen
brakes.

The rotor is also "Pinging"? It sounds like the engine when you turn the car off that same clicking sound. (This is the sound of overheating,)

EDIT2: the brake has seized. Rotor is blueish. Trying to unstick but hasn't worked. looks like I'm heading back to dealership.
EDIT3: Unstuck but won't fully retract. Grinding on rotor.

 

[Gabbagoul]

Hey all,
Not to hijack the thread, but I'm also having a brake issue and I'm hoping you guys can help me out. They were feeling squishy like there was air in the line. Bled the system, rebuilt the piston in the master cylinder and things got better for a while. Replaced the front calipers with new ones and the flexible lines on all four corners have been switched to stainless braided lines. The brake pedal travels a while before the vehicle stops and even when it does, I'll have to reapply/pump the brake again to keep it stopped otherwise it will break loose and roll forward. Again, I apologize if this is hijacking the current thread but I'm running out of options. Thanks all in advance.

 

[AuSeeker]

Hey all,
Not to hijack the thread, but I'm also having a brake issue and I'm hoping you guys can help me out. They were feeling squishy like there was air in the line. Bled the system, rebuilt the piston in the master cylinder and things got better for a while. Replaced the front calipers with new ones and the flexible lines on all four corners have been switched to stainless braided lines. The brake pedal travels a while before the vehicle stops and even when it does, I'll have to reapply/pump the brake again to keep it stopped otherwise it will break loose and roll forward. Again, I apologize if this is hijacking the current thread but I'm running out of options. Thanks all in advance.

Not enough info, what year, model, engine, etc.??

 

[Gabbagoul]

2008 sr5 with v6. Approximately 198k miles.

 

[Moist]

Hey all,
Not to hijack the thread, but I'm also having a brake issue and I'm hoping you guys can help me out. They were feeling squishy like there was air in the line. Bled the system, rebuilt the piston in the master cylinder and things got better for a while. Replaced the front calipers with new ones and the flexible lines on all four corners have been switched to stainless braided lines. The brake pedal travels a while before the vehicle stops and even when it does, I'll have to reapply/pump the brake again to keep it stopped otherwise it will break loose and roll forward. Again, I apologize if this is hijacking the current thread but I'm running out of options. Thanks all in advance.

All good man, 4th gen brakes will always suck.
Is there any way air or water is getting into the system? and how are your rear calipers?

 

[Gabbagoul]

Moist,
Not that we've seen. We haven't been able to think of anyway the system would have a leak that would be causing this issue. Everytime we have messed with the brake system in its entirety, we bleed the whole system with a vacuum.
The rear calipers didn't seem to be an issue when we last checked them compared to the front. It appeared that the front calipers pistons were hung up for lack of a better term.