Front End Damage- Thoughts?

[Sawdog]

Not the ideal start to the day here in icy PA for my beloved '99 4Runner. Slick bridge, slid into concrete barrier, likely around 30 mph. Fishtailed and collided around a 60 degree angle. Damage all in the front end. No air bags deployed, car still runs and drives, limped it home under 30 mph with no noticeable vibration or issues other than the heat no longer blowing warm, turn signals etc.

Cosmetic damage isn't terrible, but we all know what lies beneath is the real bummer. No scratches to hood or fenders, gaps are no longer square. However, the frame rails are bent on both sides between the front of the frame and the front wheels. I can find no damage to the frame from about 5" in front of the wheels on back.

My hope obviously is that it can be fixed, but I'm not overly optimistic with the frame damage that the insurance company won't total it. Realistically, it doesn't take much to total a 21 year old vehicle. '99 4Runners certainly don't have the value to the insurance company that they do to those of us who love them. I have full coverage with Geico.

The worst part, shes a bit of a unicorn. '99 SR5 all stock, factory 5 speed, e-locker, factory tan leather interior in great shape, 160k miles. Has some rust, but is not rotting out anywhere- frame is in good shape, worst of it is the rear differential housing. We on this forum care about this stuff, not sure the insurance companies do.

To make matters worse, I've got 4 brand new Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws sitting on oem 5 star wheels that i was going to put on this afternoon to replace the absolutely awful Goodyear SRA's that were on it, for this very reason. Tires still have more than 50% tread, just bad tires for anything other than bone dry. 3 hours too late.

Pictures below, wanted to get your thoughts. I know its next to impossible to determine much via pictures alone and she'll head to the body shop on Wednesday. I'll keep my fingers crossed that shes repairable and I'm only out my $250 deductible and a rental car, but just for conversation lets assume that's not going to be the case.

For anyone who's had a similar encounter..
I'm thinking there is a good chance they total it due to frame damage, but could be wrong. What do we think?

What would you expect insurance values to be (KBB ~$3k range)? What would you expect as a buy back price?

Anyone have damage like this fixed? Idea on price? Though I do most of my own maintenance and repairs, i won't be tackling this.

How much would you pay to buy it back?

Realistic value if I were to buy back and then sell as a whole? ..not likely as I'd probably keep it.

^Frame bend drivers side, shot from inside of drivers wheel well

^Frame bend passenger side, shot from engine bay looking down

^Passenger door/fender

^Drivers door/fender

Thanks for any input and suggestions

 

[ZeroByte]

That sucks . Anything is repairable with enough money. The question is how much is it worth to you?

I looked up the threshold for totaling a car is in PA, and found this (PA is one of the 22 states): "There are 22 states that don't assign a specific threshold percentage but instead use a total loss formula (TLF). The insurer will determine the cost of the repairs plus the scrap value of the vehicle. If this number equals or exceeds the actual cash value (ACV) of your vehicle before it was in an accident, your car will be totaled. If the number comes in lower than the ACV of your ride, the insurer may decide to repair it."

I am not sure how much it would cost to straighten the frame, and until you get the bumper off, you will not know the true extent of the damage.

I have had the frame straightened on other cars before, and it was not terribly expensive (around $500), but that was a much smaller car than a 4Runner. With that said, the car never drove quite the same again.

If you buy it back and try to sell it, it might have a rebuilt or salvage title. According to a little bit more research (link): " In the state of Pennsylvania, you are required to notify the Department of Motor Vehicles to inform them your insurance carrier has deemed your vehicle a total loss. Once PennDOT has been notified, you will be issued a salvage title, and will no longer be permitted to operate your vehicle."

That is really going to hurt the value if you try to sell it as a running car as opposed to selling it for parts. To sell it, you would have to get a reconstructed title (they would have to inspect it and make sure it is safe) before it could be driven again.

So, to answer your questions:

• Only you can determine how much the vehicle is worth to you. If you love it, and buying it back from fixing it is worth it to you, then do it. Are there any similar third gens around? If not, that may drive your decision.

 

[brillo_76]

Hate to tell you that's totaled. I could fix it but the insurance company will total that due to frame damage alone. Even welding a used frame front clip on with used pieces that's many thousands to fix unless you do it yourself. :[ I really dont like giving anyone bad news.

So if you really enjoy the rig. Maybe not even bother turning it and buy a replacement and use that one for parts.. That way you have the pieces you need.

As insurance will total that and auction it off.







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[Sawdog]

She was a pretty thing before this morning, haha. Few more pics to get an idea on condition.

 

[ZeroByte]

What a beautiful truck. You clearly took good care of it. I would not write it off until you have all of the numbers in front of you.

 

[Sawdog]

Thanks for the replies gents, my thoughts are she's likely going to be totaled as well, but we will have to wait and see. I would have no problem buying back and fixing it if its reasonable financially. I don't mind the R title as I wouldn't be worried about resale.

The insurance rep said for PA its usually around 70% damage cost opposed to vehicle value.

 

[JohnOfTheJungle]

I’m sorry for your loss and I feel like a complete jerk for asking - but if you end up parting it out I will be first in line for those front seats!


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[Sawdog]

I’m sorry for your loss and I feel like a complete jerk for asking - but if you end up parting it out I will be first in line for those front seats!

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All options are on the table, no worries at all! Including fixing it out of pocket, going through insurance, parting out, selling as a whole, should have a better idea midweek after crunching some numbers.

Keep the feedback coming

 

[jgue467]

All options are on the table...

Well in that case the options span from:

1) Do nothing, drive as is.

2) Deal with whatever the insurance gods determine for you, including the possiblity of payout and buyback.

3) Buy another and keep this one for off-roading only or the deer lease.

The fact the bags did not deploy is all telling to me, its still good, just fix up the cosmetics and move on, slow down and be X tra careful cuz as you know totaling just gets easier and easier as time roll on.

Luck and enjoy those Toyotas. : ^ ))))

 

[jross20]

I'd just get it fixed. Straighten the frame, weld plates on. Do an alignment, you'll probably never noticed a difference.

If it wasn't your fault, you can demand it be repaired. Generally

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[brillo_76]

Let us know what they say.

I would fix it but my cost would be a lot lower as I have all those pieces on a parts 3rd gen. Most users dont have spare parts mobiles around.

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[Sawdog]

I'd just get it fixed. Straighten the frame, weld plates on. Do an alignment, you'll probably never noticed a difference.

If it wasn't your fault, you can demand it be repaired. Generally

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Could you elaborate on your second statement? It has been deemed a "not at fault collision claim". Does this apply even if insurance would be totaling it?

From my inspection all damage appears to be well in front of front wheels, no change in driveability even at highway speeds than prior to accident. Everything on the car works (including heat, which I didn't think was initially), other than one turn signal. Front end naturally is skewed towards the drivers side from the impact, gaps are close, but all doors and hood open and close without scraping.

 

[Sawdog]

Let us know what they say.

I would fix it but my cost would be a lot lower as I have all those pieces on a parts 3rd gen. Most users dont have spare parts mobiles around.

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Thanks for the reply, unfortunately I don't have a parts vehicle or the ability to straighten the frame rails myself.

Paying out of pocket to have the frame straightened and the grill, bumper, and trim pieces replaced (plus whatever else, supports, etc) is an option. The hood and fenders are pretty much undamaged. If I go the out of pocket route it doesn't have to be a beauty queen.

 

[Mark_BC]

That for sure will be totalled (but I've been wrong before...). To repair it in a shop will be thousands. You could get the frame straightened but it looks like you have also done damage to the body -- the apron on the side of the engine comprising the wheel wells and fender mounts, radiator support, etc.. When the frame bent it pushed through the body mounts and messed it up. That is why the doors don't line up anymore.

 

[TheSaturnV]

I let a fixable '83 Datsun 280zx Turbo get away from me that the insurance company totalled and I vowed never to do that again. If you really like the truck, fix it. At least take it to a couple of body shops with frame straighteners and see what they say.

You are correct in that the underpinnings are usually much worse off than you think, but I think you got lucky here and most of the problem is that the front body attachment points are just knocked back very slightly, I mean like just a few millimeters.

If the frame guy told me he could get those lined back up properly, my mind would be made up to keep it. That truck is just too nice an example to get parted out.

 

[Jidaran]

Yeah that's totalled. Happened to mine just a few months ago, with less damage than that (and none to the frame). I don't have enough experience to tell you what to expect beyond that, but maybe my story is instructive.

I have a 2002, about as clean as yours, but no unicorn. Got rear ended and pushed into the vehicle in front of me. The bumper was pushed up a bit, but not bad at all.

Insurance put the value at $5200, which was close to KBB ($4800). Repair estimate was $4700, which was over the limit for MD (75%). They deemed the salvage value at $2000, so I got cut a $3200 check.

I was able to do the repair myself for free. The damage is still evident if you look close, but it's not obvious.

In the end, I my truck is a little less pretty, I can only get liability insurance and the KBB value is about half, but for all that trouble I got a $3200 in the bank.

If I were you, I'd look into getting the frame fixed in a shop if needed and doing the rest yourself. That's a real nice truck, it'd be a shame to give it up, especially considering what they'd give you for it.

edit: fixed the numbers, which were slightly off

 

[brillo_76]

Always a few problems on bending frames back.

1) it's never exactly where it was nor can you make it exact just close.

2) the piece that bent will rust about 10x to 25x faster then the rest of the frame because it was bent without the steel being molten.

3) you lost alot of strength in that bent area and if that front took another hit it would bend 4x worse


Could it be bent back to close probably. However, for strength and safety . It would be best to cut the bent section off and weld non bent front section back on with the plates welded in the inside and the seam welded. By doing it this way it be stronger them OEM factory.

Depending on how much damage is done on the radiator support Amand the body supports bent on the frame. If any kinks are in the inner fenders. Probably be best to take the body panels back to beginning of the front clip. Replace it all if they are bent. So hood all lines up and the fenders line up being straight with the radiator support.

This is why I say. It's an expensive fix to do it for the most strength and everything perfectly straight.

Bending it back or doing nothing much is the cheapest way to get it close or good enough.

I dont know if a bent frame will pass inspection in PA. As a guess I would say no way. As it effects the intrigity of the frame structure.


Time will tell how this will play out.

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[Colorado buff]

I would not recommend the do nothing option. If you get in a collision with other people in the car and they get hurt that might weigh on your conscience. Couldn’t you find a California 4 runner and then part this one out?

 

[UnderFire]

Easily "fixed" with a chain a strap and a tree, new bumper and brackets good to go. Won't be perfect but fixed and perfectly drivable for damn near free. I've pulled out worse the same way, but I'm the kind of person who can be OK with close enough.

It will be totalled. Around here they'd pay out about 5k and buyback would be 500 or so.

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[T4R2014]

Definitely repairable, and definitely worth repairing.