Front Locker? Need opinions.

[MARTI]

I am set on getting an ARB for the rear but not completely sold on getting one for the front, so I would like to get some feed back from the board on this.

Is a front locker more than I need?

I will likely go out and run trails about 12-15 times a year. I am not necessarily interested in building a "rock Crawler" but I would like my T4R capable of running the rocky trails here in SO CAL with the ability to go as difficult as the Miller Jeep Trail. I've run that trail in a TRD FJ w/ e-locker/A-Trac and it made through just fine.

My set up will be:
Tundra/5100 Front
LC9/5125 rear w/ ARB
Pro Comp XMT 285/70R17 Rear (33")

Gears are the other big question of the day. I'm thinking about living with my 4.10 gearing for a while. It's that, or I get 4.88s.

 

[PitbullRescuer]

I personally think an ARB is a better front choice than it is for the rear. But you're already going ARB, do it in both. Back in my Jeep days a followed a build and one of the things the builder advocated was that it's better to only have a front locker than to only have a rear locker. (obviously having both is best). What other front choices have you been considering?

 

[brian2sun]

I am set on getting an ARB for the rear but not completely sold on getting one for the front, so I would like to get some feed back from the board on this.

Is a front locker more than I need?

I will likely go out and run trails about 12-15 times a year. I am not necessarily interested in building a "rock Crawler" but I would like my T4R capable of running the rocky trails here in SO CAL with the ability to go as difficult as the Miller Jeep Trail. I've run that trail in a TRD FJ w/ e-locker/A-Trac and it made through just fine.

My set up will be:
Tundra/5100 Front
LC9/5125 rear w/ ARB
Pro Comp XMT 285/70R17 Rear (33")

Gears are the other big question of the day. I'm thinking about living with my 4.10 gearing for a while. It's that, or I get 4.88s.

I don't think you'd even need a rear locker for Miller Jeep Trail, but definitely not a front. I could be wrong, but I believe that trail is rated for 32s, 4x4, and open diffs. Most of the mountain trails up here like John Bull, Dishpan, etc.. can be done with just a rear locker. If you want to take on some of the Hammers, a front locker is a good idea.

If you live in the mountains like I do (or spend a lot of time up here), you'll probably want to regear. Down the hill and on the flat it won't matter so much. If you want to regear, it'll save you a good chunk of money if you lock and gear at the same time.

I personally think an ARB is a better front choice than it is for the rear. But you're already going ARB, do it in both. Back in my Jeep days a followed a build and one of the things the builder advocated was that it's better to only have a front locker than to only have a rear locker. (obviously having both is best). What other front choices have you been considering?

I'd have to respectfully disagree. For offroading, the majority of times when you need a locker is when you are climbing up stuff. When the truck is tilted (like when it's going up a rock face), most of the weight is on the rear tires so traction back there is more important IMO. I got my rear locker first, and I could still make it through 95% of the stuff I can now with dual lockers. BTW, ARB's stock wiring schematic sets it up so the front locker cant even be turned on unless the rear is already on (this can be bypassed though).

 

[PitbullRescuer]

I'm by no means claiming to be an expert on it. But what this guy came up with made sense. In a sticky situation, a front locker would actually pull you through it as opposed to a rear locker that would push you through it. Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying it made sense to me.

 

[brian2sun]

I'm by no means claiming to be an expert on it. But what this guy came up with made sense. In a sticky situation, a front locker would actually pull you through it as opposed to a rear locker that would push you through it. Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying it made sense to me.

There is truth to that. And if you're dual locked, the rear pushes as the front pulls so you get the best of both worlds. But, take into consideration that on an IFS rig like ours, locking the front can make it a lot easier to break CVs if you're not careful about when and how to use the front locker. On a SFA rig, a front locker won't break parts nearly as easily so it isn't as much of an issue. So a rear locker on our trucks is "safer".

For me, I'll usually try to make it in 4Lo 1st. If that doesn't work, I'll flip the rear locker on. If that doesn't work, I'll turn the front on, but I try to leave it off when I can so I don't put unnecessary stress on the front diff and CVs.

 

[Gerdo]

I agree with Brian. I'll try open/open, then lock the rear. I still can't do it I'll try a new line, get a tug or winch.
Some guys have been going with the Tru-Trac LSD. They seam to be gentle enough for the IFS/CVs but increase traction.

 

[dunebashing toyota]

In my tundra I had automatic locking diffs front and back and dang that thing would climb hills awesome. It was fun powering up the hill both front tires locked bouncing up and down crabbing traction

 

[PitbullRescuer]

That's a good point Brian. I wasn't considering the IFS vs. Solid Front Axle part of it.

That said, I would still think the ARB is a pretty decent choice for the front, especially if there is going to be one in the rear. What do you guys think?

 

[jij0226]

If you got the cash go front and rear if not just go rear. I had a lockright in the back of my 4runner for years and I would run trails without putting in 4 lo/hi. So the back would be my first choice.

 

[scottyb]

I agree that a rear locker is more important in our vehicles. Reasons being is because 1) when you are in the position where you need a locker, you will most likely be driving up an obstacle (front higher in elevation than the rear) which puts the majority of the vehicle's weight on the rear tires giving more traction (in general). 2) The rear solid axle can take more abuse locked than the front cv's or 7.5" diff (which would probably only break if you had custom super beefcake cv axles).

Also as far as the front pulling and rear pushing, these terms don't make a whole lot of sense because they are only talking about each axle with respect to the position of the driver. If you were sitting on your front bumper, both sets of wheels would be 'pushing', and if you were somehow driving from the rear bumper, both wheel sets would be 'pulling'. In reality they are both moving you forward, and doing the same thing. I have read that a front locker on jeeps is preferred over a rear locker, but I'm not sure the reasoning. There is more weight over the front axle on flat ground, and they do have solid front axles that can take the abuse of a locker better than cv's can. Maybe that's the justification.

I think a better thing to take into account is the type of terrain under each set of tires. Like if there's sand under your rear tires and rock under the front, maybe the front locker will be of more use.

Every situation has a different set of circumstances, so it's really case by case but in general I'd say just a rear locker would be plenty. If you do decide to go with a front locker, I would definitely go ARB for a daily driver. In the snow I wouldn't want an auto locker understeering me into a curb or something. But I do a bit of snow driving so that's a concern of mine.

Just some thoughts...

 

[Gerdo]

I do agree that the rear is a better one to lock. Mainly because it is stronger and doesn't bind as much when turning.

As far as push/pull. One nice thing about locking the front is that if you roll up to a big step, the rear will push the front tire into that step while a locked front will try to continue to turn and walk, or pull, the rig over.

There is still the concern of the IFS/CVs. Some say that a locked front, if used properly, can save CVs. No one has proven or dis-proven this theory.

 

[MARTI]

Thanks to all for the feedback/opinion/discussion here.
:vader:


As with most mod decisions, this one is not proving to be easy.

 

[KidVermicious]

Thanks to all for the feedback/opinion/discussion here.
:vader:


As with most mod decisions, this one is not proving to be easy.

I've got a TrueTrac LSD in the mail. If I had the money, I'd have gone with an ARB instead. Either would be fine with an IFS setup, as long as you don't put yourself in situations where you're stressing the CVs too bad.

 

[maclean216]

If you are not building a "rock crawler" then you don't need a ARB up front. Save your money.

 

[rickashay]

I just think you really need to consider if you really need the front locker or not. IMO the cost vs. benefits of adding a locker up front is very high. I agree with all, a rear locker will get you through 95% of the stuff you will want to do (unless you are building a dedicated crawler, in which case you should consider a SAS for utmost strength). You really need to be sure you will use it often and be ready to replace CV's. Most situations where I think I would need a front locker, I am fully drooped with one front tire in the air, and my wheels are not straight. A front locker would be useful in this situation, but also a situation in which CV's are most prone to failure. I say get a winch (if you don't have one already) and use that to pull you through the obstacle you would need the locker for or get a tug from someone else. My .02

That being said, I'll probably end up with a front ARB myself soon enough..... lol

 

[the great him]

well it also depends on the type of terrain, if you wheel most of the time in the snow then sure get ARB f/r cause it will be less likely that you will snap a CV in the snow as compared to wheeling wooded trails or rocks. the snow will give much sooner than the rocks or earth will. i have an ARB in the rear, and it has gotten me through everything i wanted to. i think the rear is your best bet for strength and reliability.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yiOM7II6Rgk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7LnuBkPfCOs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

those videos were taken before i had my locker, i have sense done that trail in the same conditions if not worse with the rear locker and made it just fine, i also have taken harder lines with the rear locker and made those as well. if i had only had a front locker while trying that trail i can almost guarantee you that i would have busted a CV and not be able to make that.

-i have also broken my ARB in the back(me being stupid and not using the it properly or in its intended purpose) but did not break and axle. its still very much drivable and i drive it every day. put your locker in the rear and if you have to have something up front get a TrueTrac, they are softer, and easier on CVs and they will give before a CV breaks unlike a true locker.

 

[jij0226]

those videos were taken before i had my locker, i have sense done that trail in the same conditions if not worse with the rear locker and made it just fine, i also have taken harder lines with the rear locker and made those as well. if i had only had a front locker while trying that trail i can almost guarantee you that i would have busted a CV and not be able to make that.

-i have also broken my ARB in the back(me being stupid and not using the it properly or in its intended purpose) but did not break and axle. its still very much drivable and i drive it every day. put your locker in the rear and if you have to have something up front get a TrueTrac, they are softer, and easier on CVs and they will give before a CV breaks unlike a true locker.

yeah but if you were locked front and rear you'd be able to go over that slower. Thus not putting too much stress on your cvs.

 

[jij0226]

those videos were taken before i had my locker, i have sense done that trail in the same conditions if not worse with the rear locker and made it just fine, i also have taken harder lines with the rear locker and made those as well. if i had only had a front locker while trying that trail i can almost guarantee you that i would have busted a CV and not be able to make that.

-i have also broken my ARB in the back(me being stupid and not using the it properly or in its intended purpose) but did not break and axle. its still very much drivable and i drive it every day. put your locker in the rear and if you have to have something up front get a TrueTrac, they are softer, and easier on CVs and they will give before a CV breaks unlike a true locker.

yeah but if you were locked front and rear you'd be able to go over that slower. Thus not putting too much stress on your cvs.