Fuel Pump Recall

[ElectroBoy]

...And what is that defect, by the way? None of us know...

If you start reading back at post 80 there are links by [MENTION=390705]cb1111[/MENTION] to more info on Toyota’s early failure analysis.
Fuel Pump Recall

One link describes the problem observed with the impellers from failed pumps. At the time of this report the investigators had not been able to duplicate the exact failure mode of test units. Maybe there are updated progress reports that someone could find. Toyota must understand the problem better and is tracking the installed parts better since they’ve narrowed it down to 14-15 model years. It would be good to see Toyota’s latest reports on this.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2020/RMISC-20V012-4705.pdf

Here’s an excerpt:
“ Description of Problem:
The subject vehicles are equipped with a low-pressure fuel pump, located in the fuel tank, that supplies fuel pressure to the fuel injection system. These fuel pumps contain an impeller that could deform due to excessive fuel absorption. Although the cause is unknown, if impeller deformation occurs, the impeller may interfere with the fuel pump body, and this could result in illumination of check engine and master warning indicators, rough engine running, engine no start and/or vehicle stall while driving at low speed. However, in rare instances, vehicle stall could occur while driving at higher speeds, increasing the risk of a crash.”

 

[4FL]

While most of what you say may be true, ElectroBoy is still correct in his response to someone saying they need to get this handled themselves. You can't fulfill the conditions of a recall outside of the stated recall parameters. You can replace parts, but you can't satisfy the conditions of the recall. You may even provide yourself a false sense of security by unknowingly swapping in a defective fuel pump.

I do disagree with this, though: "A dangerous airbag can be avoided by driving with extra caution". Ever been in an accident that wasn't your fault? Did you attempt to avoid it? And the curious thing - out of about 63 million recalls, only 8+ million airbags have been replaced, and that recall was issued in 2016. I imagine the majority of that is just negligence on the part of the owners.

Yea, odd way of putting it "avoided with extra caution".

 

[Bimmer-Bob]

“These fuel pumps contain an impeller that could deform due to excessive fuel absorption. Although the cause is unknown, if impeller deformation occurs, the impeller may interfere with the fuel pump body...

This is my point. Anyone can make a reasonable guess as to what is going on, but the fact is that Toyota has not publicly acknowledged the precise nature of the defect (and probably never will). Presumably, they are making changes to the part and testing before rolling out to the millions of customers affected. Given that this is part of the fueling system, it's not unreasonable to think that there might even be associated software changes required as a result of any hardware change. All of this to say that there is no path to an assured fix short of just waiting for Toyota to do it, on their timeline. Anyone who is concerned enough that they fear driving their vehicle in the meantime might consider asking their dealer to cover a rental car. I'm sure they won't volunteer to do so, but I heard of it happening with owners affected by the Takata airbag recall.

 

[eskewsy]

Which aftermarket fuel pump? Is there such a thing? And if there is, it’s probably a copy of the OE part and likely has the same defect. And what is that defect, by the way? None of us know. How can we or anyone else fix what’s wrong, if we don’t even know what it is?

In any case, I really think you are grossly exaggerating the risk. These types of recalls are very common these days, and are done out of an abundance of caution. There are lawyers and regulators somewhere imagining the worst case scenario. This recall is affecting cars at least as far back as 2013 - do you really think millions of Toyotas are going to have LPFP failures in the next couple of months? Even if your pump did go, you would be far more likely to just get stranded than have a catastrophic outcome.

All fair statements, as with me I am not worried. I once had my entire set (yes, all 4) brakes fall off of my vehicle while driving at 70MPH, everything ended up fine, I just don't know if my wife will panic with the kids in the car if the engine stalls, hell even at 10mph. Ha! Hence my concern, but I get it.

 

[thennen]

All fair statements, as with me I am not worried. I once had my entire set (yes, all 4) brakes fall off of my vehicle while driving at 70MPH, everything ended up fine, I just don't know if my wife will panic with the kids in the car if the engine stalls, hell even at 10mph. Ha! Hence my concern, but I get it.

You need to tell that brake story some day - yow!

 

[thennen]

This is my point. Anyone can make a reasonable guess as to what is going on, but the fact is that Toyota has not publicly acknowledged the precise nature of the defect (and probably never will). Presumably, they are making changes to the part and testing before rolling out to the millions of customers affected. Given that this is part of the fueling system, it's not unreasonable to think that there might even be associated software changes required as a result of any hardware change. All of this to say that there is no path to an assured fix short of just waiting for Toyota to do it, on their timeline. Anyone who is concerned enough that they fear driving their vehicle in the meantime might consider asking their dealer to cover a rental car. I'm sure they won't volunteer to do so, but I heard of it happening with owners affected by the Takata airbag recall.

Agreed. I think it's Denso who made the pump, and they have a decades-long relationship with Toyota. I can imagine Toyota is leaning on them pretty hard right now - Denso has a lot to lose, and other suppliers would love that contract. Once a resolution is arrived at, I'm sure they'll simulate millions of miles of testing before releasing a fix. There must be thousands of process items to address with even the most minor recalls.

 

[Photogr]

My 2004 4Runner airbag light came on about a year prior to the airbag recall which cost me close to $1000 to get it fixed. When the recall came out, I contacted Toyota about the work I had done to fix the problem which turned out was same part being replaced by the recall, though I don’t know for sure was the same problem. Toyota did reimburse me the total amount paid. It cost me a bit of time and effort to prove to Toyota what was done, but it worked out in the end. In my case the repair work was performed at a Toyota dealership and I don’t know if it hadn’t been what additional hurdles I would have had to jump through or if I would have been reimbursed.

 

[thennen]

My 2004 4Runner airbag light came on about a year prior to the airbag recall which cost me close to $1000 to get it fixed. When the recall came out, I contacted Toyota about the work I had done to fix the problem which turned out was same part being replaced by the recall, though I don’t know for sure was the same problem. Toyota did reimburse me the total amount paid. It cost me a bit of time and effort to prove to Toyota what was done, but it worked out in the end. In my case the repair work was performed at a Toyota dealership and I don’t know if it hadn’t been what additional hurdles I would have had to jump through or if I would have been reimbursed.

That's good to hear. I can imagine that any automaker needs to be diligent about weeding out fake claims when it comes to recalls. In you case, having had the repair done at the dealership likely placed the burden back onto Toyota. Good for you.

 

[TommyG]

Which aftermarket fuel pump? Is there such a thing? ...

They have very nice aftermarket fuel pumps. They call them "racing" because they are capable of higher fuel flow. The turbocharger crowd likes these things.

URD 2010+ Toyota 4Runner Fuel Pump/Filter Upgrade Kit - Underdog Racing Development

If you read the whole page carefully along with the links to the various model pumps you can select, it's quite interesting.

 

[El Dusty]

Quick Update after getting in touch with Toyota's Recall Phone Line, It took me three calls over three days to get through and Im paraphrasing here:

Toyota placed a large order for the faulty pumps at the onset of the recall process. The factories producing them were closed early on during the pandemic which is why we are seeing delays in the pump arrivals / remedy timing.

No information besides the remedy date was available to set 2015's apart from the rest according to the tech's e-mails. He appeared highly competent and put me on hold for about 5 min to read through the updates he received on his end.

The tech also mentioned to check back in about 30 days for another update and offered a loaner vehicle through Toyota if I felt the need. (Im working from home and hardly driving so I declined)

Not the most useful update but thought I would share anyways for those concerned.

 

[rageandlove]

Huh ... I have a 4Runner right in the middle of that date range (10/2018) but no recall listed on either Toyota or NHTSA site. Good news?

 

[Wolfman’s Brother]

I got a voicemail today from the dealer I had do some CPO warranty work on my 2014 Trail Premium indicating they have the part and I can schedule my appointment.

I’m located in the SE so I’m not sure what the distribution of the replacement pump looks like across the US but if you got the letter or your VIN was identified it may be worth revisiting finally.

While it’s a total waste of breath, I’m going to request the work be performed by their super mega certified master 4Runner tech in lieu of the oil change fuktard.

I’ll post an update as this progresses. Hopefully it doesn’t include reference to a third return trip to the dealer like every other gat dang dealer experience I’ve ever had in my life.

 

[thennen]

Huh ... I have a 4Runner right in the middle of that date range (10/2018) but no recall listed on either Toyota or NHTSA site. Good news?

I got my 2019 in October 2018 also. It was on the list initially, then 4-6 weeks ago I received a notification in the mail that it was no longer on the list. So you may be good.

 

[Staticrider]

I got my 2019 in October 2018 also. It was on the list initially, then 4-6 weeks ago I received a notification in the mail that it was no longer on the list. So you may be good.

My 2019 T4R is no longer on the list either. I also received that notification 4-6 weeks ago.

 

[El Dusty]

Congrats to all the people not on the recall list still flooding this thread. Toyota published another update 6/18/2020 for anyone who does have a recalled vehicle (see link below).

https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInf...echinfo/html/prelogin/docs/cp/20TB02tofaq.pdf

14's have the remedy available. 15's should have a remedy later this month. Glad to see the 15's are no longer separated out of the group. The next question is do I trust my local dealer to touch my fuel system after they forget to reconnect my headlights during the last service...

 

[Wolfman’s Brother]

Congrats to all the people not on the recall list still flooding this thread. Toyota published another update 6/18/2020 for anyone who does have a recalled vehicle (see link below).

https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInf...echinfo/html/prelogin/docs/cp/20TB02tofaq.pdf

14's have the remedy available. 15's should have a remedy later this month. Glad to see the 15's are no longer separated out of the group. The next question is do I trust my local dealer to touch my fuel system after they forget to reconnect my headlights during the last service...

Thanks for this info. I still haven’t scheduled mine. I’m more concerned about what they have to pull out to access the fuel pump than I am them swapping the part out.

Based on that PDF you posted the 4Runner is the more involved job based on the time they quote and that implies moving more sh1t out of the way to get to it, and hoping they put it back together competently.

It’s tempting to roll the stock unit up to the point it starts acting up. I’d just hate for it to fail in the backcountry and leave me stranded. I’ll likely bite the bullet and get it done after the upcoming holiday.

 

[El Dusty]

Thanks for this info. I still haven’t scheduled mine. I’m more concerned about what they have to pull out to access the fuel pump than I am them swapping the part out.

Based on that PDF you posted the 4Runner is the more involved job based on the time they quote and that implies moving more sh1t out of the way to get to it, and hoping they put it back together competently.

It’s tempting to roll the stock unit up to the point it starts acting up. I’d just hate for it to fail in the backcountry and leave me stranded. I’ll likely bite the bullet and get it done after the upcoming holiday.

Im fairly certain this is the low pressure pump housed inside of the fuel tank itself. They just need to drop the fuel tank to access the holes and pull/replace it.

On that note, Ive seen a few older runners where guys have cut holes in their body panels above the tank to access the pump without dropping it. lol

 

[ToyotaDoodz]

Im fairly certain this is the low pressure pump housed inside of the fuel tank itself. They just need to drop the fuel tank to access the holes and pull/replace it.

On that note, Ive seen a few older runners where guys have cut holes in their body panels above the tank to access the pump without dropping it. lol

My '14 TEP is on the list and ready to be done but I think I'd like to wait a bit and let them get their hands dirty on a few other "learning rigs" first.:biggrin2:


In trying to outsmart the dealer, I wonder if it would be a good idea to get the fuel level way down before taking it in?

I think I will try to get the fuel level down after watching this fuel pump replacement video before tasking it in.

 

[Yaker]

Received the second letter regarding the fuel pump replacement. They wrote me to call the dealer as fast as possible.
I did that the same day and the dealer told me he'll call back as soon as the parts are available. So, they don't have the fuel pump available?

They wrote too, it would take between 1.5 and 4 hours to replace the pump, maybe more. What now?
Does anybody know how long it really takes to replace this pump?

 

[Photogr]

I'm on the list and scheduled for 8/6. They said it would take 4 hours and involved dropping the tank to replace the pump. Great idea Toyotadoodz for bringing it in with little gas in it! I don't think I would have thought of that. I'm guessing they would siphon the tank if needed and who knows what kind of rat feces infested container they would put it in, before putting it back! On the bright side, they're giving me a free rental during the event, so make sure you ask about that!