Full Width SAS gear ratio?

[dirron]

So I bought a set of 10 bolt axles that come from a K5 Blazer.. I'm not sure what the stock ratio on these are yet, I know they could range from 3.08-3.73...

My question is this... I'm planning to run 36" swampers and this will be a DD for a bit (I have other vehicles, but the runner is too fun to not drive lol)... I have a 5spd 22re... divorced T-case coming later... for now I just do moderate wheeling...

If I am lucky enough to have 3.73s will there be a noticeable drop in drive-ability? What would you recommend as a ratio to run 36s with the 22re (I'm eventually swapping in ARB lockers, so I'll gear it down then).. I know it's going to be a little less peppy, but I have no idea how much..

:thanks:

 

[KidVermicious]

If I am lucky enough to have 3.73s will there be a noticeable drop in drive-ability?

Holy crap yes. The 22re is just over 100hp, it doesn't take much tire to get it completely out of its powerband. If you're set on those monster tires, you're going to want at least 4.88 gears to keep it streetable. Anything less would be unusable IMO.

 

[dirron]

Yea, well after some reading I think I might sell the 10 bolts. I got a decent deal on them I think, but I'm reading mixed opinions about them... between them being just about as strong as Dana 44s, to ZOMG THEY ARE GOING TO EXPLODE! lol... So I dono.. I'm considering just taking the plunge into a Dana 60 rear and Dana 44 front, but that might be out of my budget for a while, not to mention the fact I'll probably have to swap out gears then too...

fml lol... I wanna say that 10bolt would be fine on 36s, even locked... with a 22re... i dono... HELP! lol

 

[dirron]

Although I did find 5.13s for the 10 bolt... I would think if a K5 with a 350 didnt break them in moderate wheeling then they'd be fine a 'runner.... ugh... I dono...

 

[KidVermicious]

I know you're coming from driving full-size rigs, but consider this - with full widths and 36" tires, you'll be just as bulky as your K5 on the trail, but you won't have the power to match. Kinda the worst of both worlds, if you ask me. My suggestion would be to not go over 35's, 33's would be better (and cheaper), and wheel that IFS for a while. If you find you really need a straight axle, an earlier Yota axle or even a Waggy front axle would fit the rig much better.

 

[dirron]

Problem is I have no flex with the IFS. And I know I'm going to be wide with the full widths, but that's fine.. I don't see a lot of super narrow trails anyway.. as for power, I'm eventually adding T-case and have also considered a 7MGE swap... though I'm not sure if I'll do the motor swap ever...

 

[BucknutBob]

Well, the gearing change is a definite necessity--Yota's typically run 5.29's with 35's to keep the factory engines in their normal powerband. The comparison to Dana's is probably a fair one--GM 10-bolt to Dana 44, 12-bolt to Dana 60. Just a T-case won't solve your gearing, as that only helps in low-range--you'd still be WAY too far off for normal street driving in high-range.

 

[fourwd1]

... My suggestion would be to not go over 35's, 33's would be better (and cheaper), and wheel that IFS for a while. If you find you really need a straight axle, an earlier Yota axle or even a Waggy front axle would fit the rig much better.

That's real good advice.

 

[dirron]

Well I know the T-case is only going to help me offroad, my goal is to gear it decently enough for daily driving, but when I need ridiculously low gearing, switch to my divorced t-case... I'm on 33s right now with stock gears so I think 36s with 5.29s would be similar to what I'm used to now, or perhaps even a little better... I considered Toyota Axles, I just think I 'd rather have beefier axles and the stability of full widths... It's not that I'd be unhappy with a Toyota SAS, I just think I'll like FWs more.. /shrug...

and as for keeping IFS... I mean it's done alright so far... but why would I not want to SAS? I only go through moderate stuff now, but eventually this will be going to the Rubicon and Moonrocks (not with 10 bolts I might add)... What I'm thinking about doing is just using the 10 bolts for now, and in a year or 2 swapping to a 14 bolt rear and dana 44 front... then just selling the 10 bolts or something... I dunno...

Also to get a solid 6-7 inches of lift out of IFS I imagine costing me a ton... and if something broke the replacement cost would be high... as opposed to a simpler setup... just my thoughts...

 

[dirron]

Well I know the T-case is only going to help me offroad, my goal is to gear it decently enough for daily driving, but when I need ridiculously low gearing, switch to my divorced t-case... I'm on 33s right now with stock gears so I think 36s with 5.29s would be similar to what I'm used to now, or perhaps even a little better... I considered Toyota Axles, I just think I 'd rather have beefier axles and the stability of full widths... It's not that I'd be unhappy with a Toyota SAS, I just think I'll like FWs more.. /shrug...

and as for keeping IFS... I mean it's done alright so far... but why would I not want to SAS? I only go through moderate stuff now, but eventually this will be going to the Rubicon and Moonrocks (not with 10 bolts I might add)... What I'm thinking about doing is just using the 10 bolts for now, and in a year or 2 swapping to a 14 bolt rear and dana 44 front... then just selling the 10 bolts or something... I dunno...

Also to get a solid 6-7 inches of lift out of IFS I imagine costing me a ton... and if something broke the replacement cost would be high... as opposed to a simpler setup... just my thoughts...

Also, I'm getting a used set of 36x14.5 swampers for pretty cheap with 75%+ tread left... guys moving up to 38s on his k5.. that's the main reason I'm going with 36s... I'd be otherwise content with 35s.. but I had these exact tires on my fullsize bronco like 7 years ago and I loved em...

 

[rebelbowtie]

Well I know the T-case is only going to help me offroad, my goal is to gear it decently enough for daily driving, but when I need ridiculously low gearing, switch to my divorced t-case... I'm on 33s right now with stock gears so I think 36s with 5.29s would be similar to what I'm used to now, or perhaps even a little better... I considered Toyota Axles, I just think I 'd rather have beefier axles and the stability of full widths... It's not that I'd be unhappy with a Toyota SAS, I just think I'll like FWs more.. /shrug...

and as for keeping IFS... I mean it's done alright so far... but why would I not want to SAS? I only go through moderate stuff now, but eventually this will be going to the Rubicon and Moonrocks (not with 10 bolts I might add)... What I'm thinking about doing is just using the 10 bolts for now, and in a year or 2 swapping to a 14 bolt rear and dana 44 front... then just selling the 10 bolts or something... I dunno...

Also to get a solid 6-7 inches of lift out of IFS I imagine costing me a ton... and if something broke the replacement cost would be high... as opposed to a simpler setup... just my thoughts...

GM corporate 10 bolt = D44 no reason to swap it out 2 years down the road and 6 lug semi floating 14 bolts are harder to come by than the more common 8 lug 14 bolt full floater. also the 6 lug 14 bolts have wide array of varying widths between 2wd and 4x4 axles, pick up truck or van.

 

[dirron]

GM corporate 10 bolt = D44 no reason to swap it out 2 years down the road and 6 lug semi floating 14 bolts are harder to come by than the more common 8 lug 14 bolt full floater. also the 6 lug 14 bolts have wide array of varying widths between 2wd and 4x4 axles, pick up truck or van.

Well I would just swap both axles if I did it....so both would be 8 lug...Is 10bolt strong enough for the rear though on 36s? what if I lock it up?

 

[rebelbowtie]

Well I would just swap both axles if I did it....so both would be 8 lug...Is 10bolt strong enough for the rear though on 36s? what if I lock it up?

on a 4runner with a 22re i would say so, but iirc the highest gear ratio you can fit is a 5.18 or something along those lines(that might actually be the limit on the GM 8.25" front diff). i have seen open diff axles live behind 262 and 350 v8's with 44" iroks on each end. most people agree you dont want to go over 35's with a locker on them under full size rigs. 8.6" ring gear and chromoly shafts could be added for extra beef though...


whatever you do stay away from any 10 bolt that has Eaton's G80 locker in it, time bomb waiting to happen.

 

[dirron]

on a 4runner with a 22re i would say so, but iirc the highest gear ratio you can fit is a 5.18 or something along those lines(that might actually be the limit on the GM 8.25" front diff). i have seen open diff axles live behind 262 and 350 v8's with 44" iroks on each end. most people agree you dont want to go over 35's with a locker on them under full size rigs. 8.6" ring gear and chromoly shafts could be added for extra beef though...


whatever you do stay away from any 10 bolt that has Eaton's G80 locker in it, time bomb waiting to happen.

Well I think the gears in those axles are 3.73 at best, so I'm going to have to swap in new gears (5.13).. and for now I'll probably just lock up the front... err when I say now... I mean when I can afford to do this entire swap lol.... Thanks for the tip, though!

 

[BucknutBob]

Since you say you'll be doing mostly on-road driving, I would highly recommend against a locker in the front, unless you're going all the way to a selectable unit that you can leave open for the street. A full-time locker in the front will seriously degrade your control of the vehicle on snow-covered pavement (even worse on ice), trying to push you out of corners. If you're on a limited budget, better to go with a limited slip in the front, and a mechanical locker in the rear--that would still give you great traction for offroad, with less-extreme changes in your pavement driving with the locker in the rear (you still need to be careful with those on slippery roads, but they're manageable).

 

[KidVermicious]

You said your flex was bad - how is your suspension set up? I wonder if maybe your previous owner cranked the torsion bars, trading flex for lift... if so, relaxing those torsion bars would increase your flex and give you a much better ride on the street too.

My IFS with stock t-bars and a set of BJ spacers has nearly the same flex as a stock '85, and rides much better.