G. Zimmerman

[Thai]

This case was NOT about whether Zimmerman should have followed Trayvon. This case was NOT about Zimmerman's phone call to police. This case was NOT about Zimmerman's past actions to become a police officer. This case was NOT about Trayvon's past thug history. This case was NOT about Trayvon being black. This case was NOT about Zimmerman being HISPANIC (or even white for that matter). This case has nothing to do with race or profiling.

This case was about the few minutes or seconds prior to Zimmerman using deadly force as per CCL license (e.g. pulling the trigger). This is about him fearing for his life just prior to him pulling the trigger. Was it justified that he fear for his life at the very moment that he pulled the trigger?

It is strange that some of you blatantly miss the point of this case. ndcent, for all your rhetoric, I am surprise that you miss this point.

 

[KCcarguy]

Well the precident has been set...an unarmed teenager in skinny jeans is rightfully handing your ass to you after you profiled and stalked them into it? Simply pull out your gun and murder them!

A real win for America, justice and the hilljacks coming out of the woodwork on T4R! Like someone with a lot of class and respect just mention - he got what was coming to him! Mercia!

Oh yeah.... I also don't think this had anything to do with race. If I see someone creeping around my neighborhood at night, I'll be suspicious too... I don't give a crap what color they are. BUT I wouldn't go out and confront them either.

 

[Titanpat57]

and I believe the REAL drama will start now...

you can beat the ranch on the fact that TM's parents will now sue for wrongful death...and my bet is they'll win...

 

[KCcarguy]

and I believe the REAL drama will start now...

you can beat the ranch on the fact that TM's parents will now sue for wrongful death...and my bet is they'll win...

Yep. And I think GZ should sue NBC or whoever it was that broadcast those doctored 911 calls, if he hasn't already. The whole thing is such a CF.

Note to self: If you ever call 911 and the operator asks you to describe someone DON'T say anything about their skin color.

 

[ndcent]

Unfortunately for [MENTION=55551]ndcent[/MENTION] (the name is fitting), he's really the only person dragging race back into the story every time he posts. The rest of us let it go long ago. What's interesting however, is that the state of Ohio has one of the highest percentage of food stamp recipients (excluding the southeast that is) per capita than any other state. We are all products of our environment.

Speaking of interjecting irrelevancies - food stamps, huh?

Though poorly articulated, you have this air of superiority to the discussion, but you keep the trash flowing out of that cock holster of yours. It's interesting.

 

[huntsonora]

Well, first of all, he was found not guilty and I think we should all move on. I'm no lawyer....but I know in my CCL classes (yes I'm a big-time gun rights and CC supporter) literally, the FIRST thing our instructor mentioned is having a CCL does not give you the right to "carry out free-lance police work". He was also told not to pursue the man my the 911 dispatcher and he did anyway.

We also learned in our CC classes not to use deadly force unless you see a life in danger. You are supposed to use equal force to the assailant. In other words, when you're a CC holder you can't go around starting shit with people thinking that you've got the "trump card" if things get out of hand. I think that's exactly what GZ did.....consciously or not.

Because of these things I believe he acted negligently and his actions contributed to the situation. I look at it like a drunk driver or a participant in a bar-fight killing someone and getting manslaughter. They don't set-out to kill someone, but their actions led to someone dying.

However, TM's actions contributed to the situation as well. No one forced him to physically confront Zimmerman. The whole thing is just a tragedy and I don't think there's a clear good-guy or bad-guy.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I cannot disagree with anything you've said, the only difference is I don't think that any of what you mentioned is a crime. it certainly does not convidt GZ of manslaughter "beyond a reasonable doubt". Yes, the dispatcher told him not to follow him once but told him to keep his eye in TM TWICE. It's interesting to see how biased the media was in the handling of this whole thing. It was all agenda driven and my heart if broken for the family of Trayvon Martin to have bad to go through all of this. No parent ever deserves to lose a kid

 

[hearno]

This case was NOT about whether Zimmerman should have followed Trayvon. This case was NOT about Zimmerman's phone call to police. This case was NOT about Zimmerman's past actions to become a police officer. This case was NOT about Trayvon's past thug history. This case was NOT about Trayvon being black. This case was NOT about Zimmerman being HISPANIC (or even white for that matter). This case has nothing to do with race or profiling.

This case was about the few minutes or seconds prior to Zimmerman using deadly force as per CCL license (e.g. pulling the trigger). This is about him fearing for his life just prior to him pulling the trigger. Was it justified that he fear for his life at the very moment that he pulled the trigger?

It is strange that some of you blatantly miss the point of this case. ndcent, for all your rhetoric, I am surprise that you miss this point.

This. You're absolutely correct.

 

[RandyDaytona]

Well the precident has been set...an unarmed teenager in skinny jeans is rightfully handing your ass to you after you profiled and stalked them into it? Simply pull out your gun and murder them!

A real win for America, justice and the hilljacks coming out of the woodwork on T4R! Like someone with a lot of class and respect just mention - he got what was coming to him! Mercia!

Many of your contributions to this forum are intelligent and levelheaded, but I think you're going more on emotion than anything else, and are assuming quite a bit with the highlighted statements. That's what you think happened. It wasn't proven to have occurred that way in a court of law, by a jury of your peers. That's why the verdict was what it was.

As far as a win for America...There have been a LOT of legal cases where things don't appear to go the way popular opinion seems to hope and where people who appear to be guilty end up walking away or where innocent people go to jail.

Personally, I think a lot of folks who are overly "outraged" at the verdict are suffering from:

1) not fully understanding the criminal justice system;

2) drinking too much of the media Kool-aid; or

3) a bit of both

Yup, I think Zimmerman is a bit of a police wannabe and I probably wouldn't want to hang around with someone like that. But whether I like the guy or not, the only way to figure out what happened is to put emotion aside and look at events objectively.

Much of America was unable to do that. The media certainly wasn't. The police and the attorneys (on both sides) weren't. I even thought some of the witness testimony was skewed one way or the other.

To me, all the verdict says is that the jurors were able to do that; to look beyond the hype and actually spend some time considering the evidence. And the fact that they were able to do that, given the circumstances, is just miraculous, IMO.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Definitely amusing how some members/media/general-public will now say things like

"This a game changer" or "precident has been set" or "real win/loss for America"

AS IF there were not thousands of cases like this across America each month.

It is laughable to think this case is that special or unique. We all know the reason why it go so much media attention:

the media is garbage, they laid off all the real reporters and kept the actors/actresses, and now we are left with this type of sleasy coverage for the foreseeable future.

 

[HOJeepster]

This case was NOT about whether Zimmerman should have followed Trayvon. This case was NOT about Zimmerman's phone call to police. This case was NOT about Zimmerman's past actions to become a police officer. This case was NOT about Trayvon's past thug history. This case was NOT about Trayvon being black. This case was NOT about Zimmerman being HISPANIC (or even white for that matter). This case has nothing to do with race or profiling.

This case was about the few minutes or seconds prior to Zimmerman using deadly force as per CCL license (e.g. pulling the trigger). This is about him fearing for his life just prior to him pulling the trigger. Was it justified that he fear for his life at the very moment that he pulled the trigger?

It is strange that some of you blatantly miss the point of this case. ndcent, for all your rhetoric, I am surprise that you miss this point.

Thai - what makes you so knowledgeable and just in your opinions on this forum? Everytime I see you post, you act like you have all the 'right' answers. From your comments about this case to your comments earlier about mary jane...I can't help but feel like your a little ignorant in your own opinions without seeing that here is no 'real' right answer without having all the facts first. I just find it frustrating that people like yourself can't see both sides of any issue.

 

[hearno]

Thai - what makes you so knowledgeable and just in your opinions on this forum? Everytime I see you post, you act like you have all the 'right' answers. From your comments about this case to your comments earlier about mary jane...I can't help but feel like your a little ignorant in your own opinions without seeing that here is no 'real' right answer without having all the facts straight.

I can't speak to anything else he has ever said but his post was spot on. People try to cloud the real issue that was at hand. Black, white, hispanic, cop wanna-be, etc. None of it matters. It all boils down to state law and what the events were as best as witnesses etc can recall, and the physical evidence at hand. I'm a police officer, I take people to court all the time. I can't tell you how many stupid defenses people come up with to try and save their asses. "the officer was a jerk..." "the officer is lying" "the officer has it out for me" "mars and venus weren't in alignment that night" and on and on. None of that crap matters. Did I follow local, state, and federal law? Were my actions constitutional. Did I prove my case beyond a reasonable doubt. If yes, then you're guilty. The rest doesn't matter. In Zimmerman's case - it's somewhat opposite because his actions saved him from a conviction but you get the idea. The other nonsense that is heaped on top of the real issue is irrelevant.

 

[20034RunnerV84x2]

Great points. I have my CCL also.

Now some billy from Georgia should be along shortly to tell you why this is all wrong.

Funny, because the billy from Ohio is telling is why it's all right.

What does a physical location have to do with anything in the first place?

 

[zopperman]

Well, first of all, he was found not guilty and I think we should all move on. I'm no lawyer....but I know in my CCL classes (yes I'm a big-time gun rights and CC supporter) literally, the FIRST thing our instructor mentioned is having a CCL does not give you the right to "carry out free-lance police work". He was also told not to pursue the man my the 911 dispatcher and he did anyway.

We also learned in our CC classes not to use deadly force unless you see a life in danger. You are supposed to use equal force to the assailant. In other words, when you're a CC holder you can't go around starting shit with people thinking that you've got the "trump card" if things get out of hand. I think that's exactly what GZ did.....consciously or not.

Because of these things I believe he acted negligently and his actions contributed to the situation. I look at it like a drunk driver or a participant in a bar-fight killing someone and getting manslaughter. They don't set-out to kill someone, but their actions led to someone dying.

In order to be found guilty of manslaughter in FL they prosecution must prove INTENT and that the murder was not just the result of negligence

However, TM's actions contributed to the situation as well. No one forced him to physically confront Zimmerman. The whole thing is just a tragedy and I don't think there's a clear good-guy or bad-guy.

I really like everything you've said. As someone in the legal field and also a CCL supporter ( who lives in an area where guns are pretty much outlawed, yet is is still plagued by an abundance of gun violence :shrug: ) I believe that he was acting out of the bounds of his CCL and wanted to play cop. However, that doesn't matter and it's just my opinion. According to the florida definition, I suppose he could have been found guilty if there is a req'd CCL class and he was found to have acted outside the instructions of the class, thus causing intent to cause death by ignoring his responsibilities as a CCL? Not sure. (not negligence as we discussed earlier). I don't know though since I wasn't in court and I don't know florida law.

manslaughter legal definition of manslaughter. manslaughter synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

and I believe the REAL drama will start now...

you can beat the ranch on the fact that TM's parents will now sue for wrongful death...and my bet is they'll win...

They will definitely win. Partially due to the media outcry etc, but also the standard of evidence is lower in civil court.

Many of your contributions to this forum are intelligent and levelheaded, but I think you're going more on emotion than anything else, and are assuming quite a bit with the highlighted statements. That's what you think happened. It wasn't proven to have occurred that way in a court of law, by a jury of your peers. That's why the verdict was what it was.

As far as a win for America...There have been a LOT of legal cases where things don't appear to go the way popular opinion seems to hope and where people who appear to be guilty end up walking away or where innocent people go to jail.

Personally, I think a lot of folks who are overly "outraged" at the verdict are suffering from:

1) not fully understanding the criminal justice system;

2) drinking too much of the media Kool-aid; or

3) a bit of both

Yup, I think Zimmerman is a bit of a police wannabe and I probably wouldn't want to hang around with someone like that. But whether I like the guy or not, the only way to figure out what happened is to put emotion aside and look at events objectively.

I totally agree, but like you said, that doesn't matter and we should look at this objectively, very difficult to do

Much of America was unable to do that. The media certainly wasn't. The police and the attorneys (on both sides) weren't. I even thought some of the witness testimony was skewed one way or the other.

To me, all the verdict says is that the jurors were able to do that; to look beyond the hype and actually spend some time considering the evidence. And the fact that they were able to do that, given the circumstances, is just miraculous, IMO.

 

[HOJeepster]

I can't speak to anything else he has ever said but his post was spot on. People try to cloud the real issue that was at hand. Black, white, hispanic, cop wanna-be, etc. None of it matters. It all boils down to state law and what the events were as best as witnesses etc can recall, and the physical evidence at hand. I'm a police officer, I take people to court all the time. I can't tell you how many stupid defenses people come up with to try and save their asses. "the officer was a jerk..." "the officer is lying" "the officer has it out for me" "mars and venus weren't in alignment that night" and on and on. None of that crap matters. Did I follow local, state, and federal law? Were my actions constitutional. Did I prove my case beyond a reasonable doubt. If yes, then you're guilty. The rest doesn't matter. In Zimmerman's case - it's somewhat opposite because his actions saved him from a conviction but you get the idea. The other nonsense that is heaped on top of the real issue is irrelevant.

I agree with the judicial system process, I just don't believe you can tell me it's followed to a "T" each and every time. Political influences may effect an outcome of a decision on any occasion, no? I mean, do we need to take Guantanamo Bay into consideration here too? Where people are sent away for life without due process just because the government says they are guilty? Off topic to this specific case, just trying to get the thought process going here that not everything is right/wrong. Rational thinking goes a long way.

 

[zopperman]

Funny, because the billy from Ohio is telling is why it's all right.

What does a physical location have to do with anything in the first place?

It doesn't. Can everyone please cut the crap with the personal jabs and keep this civil?

 

[KCcarguy]

I really like everything you've said. As someone in the legal field and also a CCL supporter ( who lives in an area where guns are pretty much outlawed, yet is is still plagued by an abundance of gun violence :shrug: ) I believe that he was acting out of the bounds of his CCL and wanted to play cop. However, that doesn't matter and it's just my opinion. According to the florida definition, I suppose he could have been found guilty if there is a req'd CCL class and he was found to have acted outside the instructions of the class, thus causing intent to cause death by ignoring his responsibilities as a CCL? Not sure. (not negligence as we discussed earlier). I don't know though since I wasn't in court and I don't know florida law.

manslaughter legal definition of manslaughter. manslaughter synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

It's great to hear the opinion of a legal professional. From the link you posted, it sounds like voluntary manslaughter to me :shrug:

But, hey, the jurors heard the evidence and made a difficult decision. I respect that.

 

[KCcarguy]

Speaking of interjecting irrelevancies - food stamps, huh?

Though poorly articulated, you have this air of superiority to the discussion, but you keep the trash flowing out of that cock holster of yours. It's interesting.

What's with the middle school debate tactics?

 

[zopperman]

It's great to hear the opinion of a legal professional. From the link you posted, it sounds like voluntary manslaughter to me :shrug:

But, hey, the jurors heard the evidence and made a difficult decision. I respect that.

The problem lies with proving the intent. They ha the 911 calls and Z's comments about TM being a punk and all, but there was definitely reasonable doubt to prove intent. IMO they should have pursued involuntary manslaughter. But because of political pressure to apply a charge with a higher sentence, they gambled on M2 and manslaughter.

 

[RunninInGA]

I read elsewhere that in Florida, he will be immune to any civil cases given the wording of the states self defense laws. I've yet to verify, but he could potentially disappear into history if he plays his cards right.

Regardless, he sould do what Snowden nearly messed up - he should suddenly pop up a new citizen in some foreign land and then never be heard from again.

 

[Soju]

Under Florida law Zimmerman should have immunity from any civil suits since he was found not guilty.

"Title XLVI CRIMES Chapter 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.— (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant. (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful. (3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1). History.—s. 4, ch. 2005-27."

The only thing Zimmerman has to worry about legally is being charged federally with a crime. In that case the Feds would likely loose as badly if not worse then the State prosecution did.