Gen 1 22-RE 4Runner in need of TLC!!

[Bidaum]

Hi everyone, first time poster and got some questions on our old 4Runner!

Basically... we have a Gen 1 22-RE Manual 4Runner sitting in our garden that has been stationary for the past 10 years with it's main radiator and airbox removed.

We're finally going to get her started again though at the end of this week!
Basically taking her to a mechanic to get her engine started and then going from there doing as much work as we can to get her back to 100%

/EDIT:
My first question is.. She is a completely stock 4Runner as far as I can tell, and from looking around, the 22-RE has a lot of low end and mid range torque but quite a weak top end. What kind of effect does this have on the car? i.e does it struggle up hills at 40MPH? how does it run at highway speeds?

Also for comfort wise.. how is the stock suspension? She has the independant front axle suspension instead of a solid axle. So in general is the stock ride quality comfortable with not too much roll? Or would it be best to upgrade all round to get this how we want?

Once she's back into 100% condition we may look into a few inches of lift.. and maybe bigger tyres. If we do fit bigger tyres we will want to up the power also... assuming the engine doesn't need a rebuild ofcourse!

As tuning or turboing the 22RE engine is mainly a waste of time. What are suitable engines to put in and would the drive train or transmission need upgrading? So far the 2.7 i4 3RZ-FE looks like a nice power plant with decent MPG.. or there is the 3.4 V6 5VZ-FE for super power!
I'm guessing the 2.7 i4 is going to be the more reliable and better for daily driving of the two engines?


/ENDEDIT:

Any help anyone can give would be greately appreciated!!

 

[tor-redneck]

my 85 22re was rebuildt and i can run at 70 mph pretty good on the freeway with 32 1150's and stock gears. as for stabben the peddle at 65 mph, you can do it but nothing will happen lol. sorry. my plan for more power is at the end of the year im going to drop a 3.4 tacoma motor in the old girl. my buddy has a 1gen with the 3.4 and it has unreal power. the swap isnt too hard either.

 

[Red Leader]

I've got a '90 w/ 22RE. If you are looking for more power, the 22RE is limited. If you want to add bigger tires, that will significantly affect the feel of power unless you planned to regear ($$).

The beauty of the 22RE is the reliability and the simplicity. They were not a performance engine in the larger vehicles like the 4runner. I am trying to keep mine as stock as possible.

Like the previous poster, most who want decent power out of a 22RE equipped vehicle end up doing a 3.4 swap.

I've got both a 3.4 and the 22RE 4runners. If power is what you are after, you might be better off selling the 1st gen and investing in a 3rd gen w/ a 3.4. Or you could do a swap. Or if you are okay with the lovely simplicity of the 22RE and be willing to sacrifice power/accelaration, then the 22RE is great. I'm not going anywhere in a hurry, so it works for me. Maintaining speeds on flat land is no problem. Though I usually don't go past even 60mph, the little 22RE did just fine pushing it at 70+.

The reliability and simplicity is part of the allure with these older yotas.


Also....:worthless

 

[turboSR5]

Trying to gain more power from the 22R series engines is a waste of time and money. Turboing one is very expensive and not very good for these engines in general. I would be looking for an engine swap or just accept that these motors are sort of weak but built to last.

 

[Bidaum]

Aye.. so it seems.. she'll be kept stock for a good while as we would only be after more power if we fitted thicker tyres and all this would be done only once she's in near perfect condition again! ... may just go for some knobbly stock size for some aggression as they're pretty decent size tyres as they are.

I've also editted my first post with a couple of questions just to let you know

I'm currently out of the house, but when I get back I'll take some pictures of her for you to see

 

[3rzrunner]

if you had to do an engine swap the ONLY engine I'D consider would be the
3rz-fe 2.7EFI I have it in my 3rd gen and love it. I also had a 91 22re 5speed and loved the simplicity and reliability but I gotta admit it was a bit slow on the hills. the 3rz has LOADS of power and torque.

EDIT: Check out [MENTION=49649]KidVermicious[/MENTION] 's first gen he has swapped in a 3rz.. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/classic-t4rs/126682-kidvs-1985-4runner.html

 

[KidVermicious]

My first question is.. She is a completely stock 4Runner as far as I can tell, and from looking around, the 22-RE has a lot of low end and mid range torque but quite a weak top end. What kind of effect does this have on the car? i.e does it struggle up hills at 40MPH? how does it run at highway speeds?

Assuming everything is stock, a 5speed 22RE will have no trouble maintaining freeway speeds on the flat. 75-80mph is not a problem, even at elevation. The RPMS will be high, but that's where the power is. The 22RE likes to rev and does not mind sitting up near 3000rpm or higher for extended periods of time. You will want to move to the right lane on significant grades - you won't be getting passed by truckers, but you'll want to stay out of the way of faster traffic for sure. You can expect 18-20 MPG in my experience, maybe 22 if you drive like a grandma.

Also for comfort wise.. how is the stock suspension? She has the independant front axle suspension instead of a solid axle. So in general is the stock ride quality comfortable with not too much roll? Or would it be best to upgrade all round to get this how we want?

It's a truck, and it rides like one. It's a fairly stiff suspension and you will not get much roll in the corners, especially if you leave the front sway bar in.

Once she's back into 100% condition we may look into a few inches of lift.. and maybe bigger tyres. If we do fit bigger tyres we will want to up the power also... assuming the engine doesn't need a rebuild ofcourse!

Check out OME springs in the rear and ball joint spacers in front for a mild lift that won't break the bank. If you're really on a budget, check out the Zukmod rear lift. If you upsize your tires past a 31 you will definitely want to consider regearing your differentials, and I'd do that before I touched the motor. For best reliability you want to leave that motor stock.

As tuning or turboing the 22RE engine is mainly a waste of time. What are suitable engines to put in and would the drive train or transmission need upgrading? So far the 2.7 i4 3RZ-FE looks like a nice power plant with decent MPG.. or there is the 3.4 V6 5VZ-FE for super power!
I'm guessing the 2.7 i4 is going to be the more reliable and better for daily driving of the two engines?

There are a couple of things you can do with the 22RE to wake it up a bit. First, push your timing advance. You can get -12 or sometimes -15 before the motor will start to ping, and that'll give you a little more oomph at the pedal. A hotter cam is relatively inexpensive and easy to install, and if you pick the right one it'll shift your torque curve deeper into your RPMs and give you a little more grunt at speed - call Ted at engnbldr.com and let him talk your ear off. A good header will also wake the motor up noticeably. I had a Thorley, LCE headers are good too. Pacesetters are not so good, but maybe better than stock? After all that, maybe a high-flow intake, but that's about it for cheap gains, and they won't be very big gains, but they're there. There's more you can do obviously, but the cost-benefit curve starts to get ugly - guys have stroked and boosted and ported and polished and still have trouble getting significant horsepower gains. It just isn't worth the money.

I haven't driven my truck with the 3RZ yet. I'm expecting it to make the truck a little more usable on the freeway, but it's not going to be a race truck (at least not yet ). The 5VZE isn't superfast either - they're all truck motors designed for longevity, not performance. If you want to go fast, look into a smallblock V8. More work, more horsepower. One note, if you decide to get into an engine swap, whip out the wallet because it won't be cheap. I'm over $2500 into my swap, and I'm doing the work myself. You'll probably clear $10000 if you hire a shop to do it for you.

 

[Red Leader]

Good info in this thread. From the little I've done on researching engine swaps it is very easy to underestimate the time, labor, costs, and troubleshooting, depending on the swap.

A lot of people specifically seek out a 4runner with a 22RE in it. In the 2nd gens they are very rare. Most, not all, would hold them as more desirable than the 3.0 V6 due to their dependability and simplicity.

I would give that little motor a chance. Get it up to snuff (new plugs, wires, cap + rotor), check timing and valves and off you go. Pay attenting to the timing chain guides when you pull the valve cover off to see how much life you have left on the chain/timing cover and enjoy the heck out of it. :car::surfer:

 

[Bidaum]

Pictures will be up tomorrow!

Been a busy couple of days ferrying the missus about.

 

[Bidaum]

https://www.facebook.com/owen.walke...10152560912615519.1073741825.573055518&type=1 <-- FULL ALBUM

Pictures are up here! As you can see the body is in need of a bit of TLC and a new drivers side fender, however there are no rust holes etc.. just surface rust from it being left for so long with no paint coating! The frame still is in good condition though and she'll look very nice with her chrome back on! (Just about to take pictures now of the chrome if you can't see it in this album yet) EDIT: Chrome pictures added now.

Yesterday I took her down from the breeze blocks she was sitting on and the tyres and the suspension seems in good condition!

Guess it's now time for her to be towed away to the mechanic to get the radiator and airbox back in and a service and hope she's going to fire up!

PS. Currently no interior pictures as the radiator and other neccessary parts are sitting inside the car. however is all in good condition besides a little wear and tear..

 

[MacGyver1979]

it looks like you have an inclinometer, thats a good start.

 

[Bidaum]

She has been towed and is at the Repair Shop right now..

*fingers crossed the engine will start again*

 

[Bidaum]

The engine fired up!

She needs a new fuel pump however..

Also the clutch isn't currently working.. hopefully it just needs fluid and will come back to life though!

 

[Bidaum]

Ok, the clutch is alive, the fuel pump is in and she has a new fuel tank as well and is also moving!

However, the engine isn't very healthy right now and is making a very bad sound from 1 of the pistons, which is most likely going to mean we're looking at putting in a re manufactured 22-RE.

Would this be the most economical choice or would a engine rebuild be better to get her running smoothly again?

Thanks.

 

[flagbasher]

I've got an 87 22RE automatic. 2" lift on 32" tires.

It's fine for highway merging and cruising at 60-70mph.

Hills and inclines usually mean a downshift and some extra throttle, but any of the hills I approach here are usually really slow and short anyway.

The suspension is fairly comfortable. More so than my 2008 Honda Element SC. I do feel the body lean a bit through turns, so I ended up getting a bit used to that feeling, and I drive slightly differently.

 

[KidVermicious]

Your mechanic wants to put in a reman because it's much less work for him but about the same profit. Assuming the block is sound, having it rebuilt will probably hurt your wallet less. Rebuilding it yourself is the best solution, in terms of cost.

 

[MountainBrew]

As far as power goes, my 86 has a rebuilt 22re on 31s with stock gears and manual trans, and I never have any issues except when I take the famous Colorado I-70 west from denver (about twice a week)....it struggles going up that hill, I can barely maintain 60 and it's in third gear. Granted there is no oxygen and constant high grades, but I have to spend most of my time in the left lane. Doesn't bother me, but it was a bit of a shock switching over from a Volvo with a 2.4T motor!!!! Anyone wanna try a swap? The motor is the only good this left on that Swedish meatball.

 

[Bidaum]

Your mechanic wants to put in a reman because it's much less work for him but about the same profit. Assuming the block is sound, having it rebuilt will probably hurt your wallet less. Rebuilding it yourself is the best solution, in terms of cost.

The mechanic was actually saying about a rebuild, he is a very decent guy and has been very honest and fair throughout the fixing process!

I was wondering if it was cheaper and easier to just drop a reman engine in as unfortunately:

1. I'm back in the UK for now
2. Even if I was over there we have none of the tools or the time required to do a rebuild, lots of other work that we have to do that takes priority over fixing the car ourselves right now.
3. My wife could really do with this car up and running as soon as she actually has the money to spend on the engine.

 

[papawhellie]

KidV
There are a couple of things you can do with the 22RE to wake it up a bit. First, push your timing advance. You can get -12 or sometimes -15 before the motor will start to ping, and that'll give you a little more oomph at the pedal. A hotter cam is relatively inexpensive and easy to install, and if you pick the right one it'll shift your torque curve deeper into your RPMs and give you a little more grunt at speed - call Ted at engnbldr.com and let him talk your ear off. A good header will also wake the motor up noticeably. I had a Thorley, LCE headers are good too. Pacesetters are not so good, but maybe better than stock? After all that, maybe a high-flow intake, but that's about it for cheap gains, and they won't be very big gains, but they're there. There's more you can do obviously, but the cost-benefit curve starts to get ugly - guys have stroked and boosted and ported and polished and still have trouble getting significant horsepower gains. It just isn't worth the money.

I haven't driven my truck with the 3RZ yet. I'm expecting it to make the truck a little more usable on the freeway, but it's not going to be a race truck (at least not yet ). The 5VZE isn't superfast either - they're all truck motors designed for longevity, not performance. If you want to go fast, look into a smallblock V8. More work, more horsepower. One note, if you decide to get into an engine swap, whip out the wallet because it won't be cheap. I'm over $2500 into my swap, and I'm doing the work myself. You'll probably clear $10000 if you hire a shop to do it for you.

Do you feel the mileage suffers from the lesser mods? I am looking for dependability and fuel economy. I really don't care about being in 3rd running 30mph. I do always want to make life easier on my powerplant so the advanced timing within reason and some of the other stuff is of interest. I thought you would add the supra AFM thing too. I am learning but my 2 Cents on motor purchase is rebuilt by someone you can look in the eye. I have bought a couple jasper engines that were not what I thought they should be. I have never heard a good story about auto parts reman engines.

 

[Bidaum]

Papa, can you edit your post to remove the quotes/remove it and just PM KidV if you're just wanting to talk to him.

I'd rather not have the thread ending up with multiple different topics!

Thanks.