GM + Toyota Working Together

[iFORCE]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4398718.stm

GM and Toyota said to hold talks
By Jonathan Head
BBC News Tokyo correspondent

The General needs urgent attention
The chiefs of the world's two largest car makers, Toyota and General Motors (GM), are reported to be meeting in Tokyo to discuss co-operation efforts.

Neither company will confirm the meeting, but GM chairman Rick Wagoner, has been in Japan since Monday.

Toyota is the world's most profitable car maker, while GM is losing billions of dollars.

Toyota might help GM in order to avoid a public backlash against Japanese cars in the crucial US market.

Co-operate rather than compete

Toyota's astonishing success in selling cars around the world, and making money out of them, is beginning to worry its bosses.

Toyota makes most of its profits selling cars in the US, and it is concerned that it could provoke anti-Japanese feeling there.

Some Congressmen have complained that the Japanese yen is being kept artificially weak against the dollar.

So Toyota is looking for ways to co-operate with rather than compete against GM.

Both GM and its rival Ford, the two biggest US manufacturers, are in dire financial straits, burdened by welfare and pension commitments, that there are real fears over their survival.

Fresh figures show that while US car sales fell 14% in October, Toyota and Honda gained market share while GM and Ford slipped back.

Helping each other

In May, Toyota and GM discussed developing hydrogen technology together as an alternative fuel.

Toyota is already the leading manufacturer of so-called hybrid cars, using a combination of electric and petrol power.

Toyota also stepped in last month to buy shares in a smaller Japanese manufacturer from GM, a move which could help its American rival's bottom line.

The latest meeting between the heads of the two companies is shrouded in secrecy, though according to the Kyodo News agency, Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe and Mr Wagoner are discussing co-operation with regards to technological research and plans for jointly operated factories.

It is becoming increasingly clear that whereas on paper, Toyota and General Motors seem locked in a titanic battle to determine who will dominate the global car market, in practice they are actually helping each other out.

The idea that they no longer want to compete in all areas is no longer a secret.

 

[sharp4runr]

Yeah Toyota actually sold the Cavalier in Japan for a time under the Toyota nameplate so its not their first time working together. Wierd if you ask me.

 

[iFORCE]

guess its better then the americans not letting the japanese sell cars in the states ever again.

 

[Gromulus]

GM/Toyota

Actually, Toyota and GM have had a joint venture at the NUUMI plant in CA for years now. Ths is where the Vibe/Matrix twins are manufactured today.

Last month cash-strapped GM sold it's 20% interest in Subaru (before they had a chance to screw them up) to Subaru and Toyota. Trade laws limit Toyota's interest in Subaru to 8.7%. Already, Subaru and Toyota are talking about somehow sharing their manufacturing facilities in Indiana (TMMI and SIA), but it is way too early to speculate.

Toyota offred to license it's hybrid technology to GM several years ago. At the time, GM (in it's arrogance) declined - poo-pooing the future of hybrids. They were riding high with their SUVs and trucks and couldn't see past the immediate future. Anyone want to buy a Suburban cheap?

 

[KMX3060]

Re: GM/Toyota

Actually, Toyota and GM have had a joint venture at the NUUMI plant in CA for years now. Ths is where the Vibe/Matrix twins are manufactured today.

Can you say TOY-O-LET?

RE: Suburbans. The two happiest days of a man's life.
The day he buys his first Suburban and the day he sells it!!

Got rid of mine so I could buy my T4R.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

GM/Toyota


My ex-wife had a 1993 Toyota Corolla that was made in one of the plants where GM & Toyota cooperated with each other. Do you remember the Geo/Chevy Prizm? It was a re-badged Corolla.

The auto market is becoming more and more globalized, and there is hardly any such thing as an "American" car anymore. Many 'imports' are built here, while 'domestic' nameplates often build their vehicles in Canada, Japan, Mexico or elsewhere.

How a vehicle is built is more important than where it is made.

 

[Bill42]

Several years ago Microsoft invested millions to assist Apple. In part, so they would not have to face the legal issues related to being a monopoly. It is often a risk management tool. Think of it as insurance.

As to the issue of a blowback - I think that Japan's continued efforts to have plants in our country will benefit them in the long term. It is pretty difficult as a politician to hammer the foreign car companies when they have a plant in your own state.

Also, many states, California for sure won't give a rip. They will continue to buy foreign cars.

Toyota will soon be the largest automotive company in the world. They will also continue to encroach on market share within the US.

The fact is for me my family was a Ford family. After experiences with our Ford products we have moved on to Toyota. Should Toyota start putting out crap well then will move on again.

Quality IS job 1 - too bad Ford forgot their own slogan.

 

[wm69]

Ewww, I hope Toyota doesn't get "UAW made so you KNOW it's a piece of crap" cooties from messing around with GM. You know the old saying, "if you lie down with dogs".......

As far as Toyota building cars in this country now, I'd be curious to see if there's a difference in reported problems on Toyota cars built there and here. To be honest if given a choice of whether my car is made here or in Japan I'll pick the one over there every time.

 

[Gromulus]

Old News

Ewww, I hope Toyota doesn't get "UAW made so you KNOW it's a piece of crap" cooties from messing around with GM. You know the old saying, "if you lie down with dogs".......

As far as Toyota building cars in this country now, I'd be curious to see if there's a difference in reported problems on Toyota cars built there and here. To be honest if given a choice of whether my car is made here or in Japan I'll pick the one over there every time.

A bit late. NUUMI opened up in 1984 and the first NA Toyota (Corrola) came off the line in 1986. I own a 1992 Camry that was built at TMMK and is still going strong with 175K miles.

I for one am glad Toyota is investing and building in the US. There is even talk about them building the 4Runner in San Antonio someday.

I fear that if we lose all our manufacturing capabilities in this country than very few of us will even be in the position to buy a 4Runner. I can see the big three closing even more US manufacturing facilities and building more in Asia and India. Even with transportation costs it will be cheaper for them to make them there and ship them over - if they still have a market here.

I have no problem buying a Toyota (or any quality vehicle) made in this country. I purchased my 4Runner because I felt that it was the best misize SUV in's its class and fit my requirements, not because it was built in Japan. I just hope I have the choice in the future.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

I know that Toyota has built pickup trucks (Tundra & T-100??) in the USA for several years - with favorable quality reported among the product line. The Camry has been assembled in Georgetown, Kentucky and that is one of the most trouble-free cars you can buy.

Again, it is how well a car is made - rather than where it happens to be assembled that is the issue at hand.

My 4Runner was built in Japan, but I would have made the same decision to get one if it were built in the USA, Mexico or Canada.

 

[Gromulus]

Again, it is how well a car is made - rather than where it happens to be assembled that is the issue at hand.

My 4Runner was built in Japan, but I would have made the same decision to get one if it were built in the USA, Mexico or Canada.

Ditto.

 

[RickyCRX]

I know that Toyota has built pickup trucks (Tundra & T-100??) in the USA for several years - with favorable quality reported among the product line. The Camry has been assembled in Georgetown, Kentucky and that is one of the most trouble-free cars you can buy.

Again, it is how well a car is made - rather than where it happens to be assembled that is the issue at hand.

My 4Runner was built in Japan, but I would have made the same decision to get one if it were built in the USA, Mexico or Canada.

For me, it was exactly the opposite. I looked at the new Nissan Pathfinders and compared them to the 4Runner. The BIG thing that swayed me to the 4Runner was the first character of the VIN number being a J. I've owned about 15 different cars at this point in the last 10 years. All of which have been built in Japan except for two. Of all the cars I have owned, only TWO have ever caused me to unwillingly have to pull over to the side of the road due to mechanical problems. One was a German car (1997 BMW M3), and the other was a domestic... 1998 Chevrolet Blazer. Although I've had small maintenance items to replace on occasion on the Japanese cars I've owned, not a single one has EVER failed to get me to where I need to go (except for one suddenly-dead battery that interrupted the flow of my day once -- you can't blame that on the car manufacturer, though).

To give a perfect example of quality differences. My parents own a 1989 Honda Civic hatchback. I own a 1991 Honda CRX. Both cars are based on the same chassis, from the same 'generation' of vehicles. The CRX was produced in Japan, the Civic was produced in Canada. My parent's Civic has had interior rattles, fit and finish issues, etc that were not present with the CRXs I've owned (I've had three different ones; still own two of them, plus my wife still has her CRX). There is a difference in quality levels depending on where a car is produced. There are different levels of workmanship and quality work ethic in different countries, and I think Japan has North America beat in that regard.

Just my $.02 from personal experiences. Take them for what they're worth.

Ricky

 

[wm69]

For me, it was exactly the opposite. I looked at the new Nissan Pathfinders and compared them to the 4Runner. The BIG thing that swayed me to the 4Runner was the first character of the VIN number being a J. I've owned about 15 different cars at this point in the last 10 years. All of which have been built in Japan except for two. Of all the cars I have owned, only TWO have ever caused me to unwillingly have to pull over to the side of the road due to mechanical problems. One was a German car (1997 BMW M3), and the other was a domestic... 1998 Chevrolet Blazer. Although I've had small maintenance items to replace on occasion on the Japanese cars I've owned, not a single one has EVER failed to get me to where I need to go (except for one suddenly-dead battery that interrupted the flow of my day once -- you can't blame that on the car manufacturer, though).

To give a perfect example of quality differences. My parents own a 1989 Honda Civic hatchback. I own a 1991 Honda CRX. Both cars are based on the same chassis, from the same 'generation' of vehicles. The CRX was produced in Japan, the Civic was produced in Canada. My parent's Civic has had interior rattles, fit and finish issues, etc that were not present with the CRXs I've owned (I've had three different ones; still own two of them, plus my wife still has her CRX). There is a difference in quality levels depending on where a car is produced. There are different levels of workmanship and quality work ethic in different countries, and I think Japan has North America beat in that regard.

Just my $.02 from personal experiences. Take them for what they're worth.

Ricky

Same results here. Accords made in Japan ='s no problems at all.
Accords made in Ohio='s lots of little annoying rattles, squeaks, electrical gremlins etc. My family has owned 9 accords and a civic since 1989 and the ones made in Japan had a much better fit/finish that the ones made here. If it comes to tools I always buy American, but when it comes to vehicles I always want it built elsewhere. That's coming from a family who owned a GM dealership for 40+ years (my grandad) and for all that time refused to buy imports. It took a few 80's vintage GM POS's and one perfect Accord for my sister to get our entire family away from US made crap vehicles forever.