Great Info on Oil!

[Koz]

It outlines how base oil has improved!

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=618&relatedbookgroup=Lubrication2

Koz

 

[Baba Booey]

It's all good, but unfortunately I will still be bound by the 5,000 mile OCI because of the warranty.

The article touched briefly on the issue of gasket and seal compatability with Group III's, and there appears to be at least a little concern there. My (mostly my wife's) previous ride was a 2004 Honda Pilot. At 13,000 miles I changed the oil over to Amsoil 0W-30 (PAO-Group IV basestock). When I went to change the oil again at 18,000 miles, I noticed that I had a leak. Turns out my crank seal and oil pan were leaking. It may have been mere coincidence, but up until the point that I switched over to Syn, I had zero leaks.

My wife totaled the Pilot, and we replaced it with the '06 4Runner. I have been thinking about switching to Syn at 5,000 miles, but I am a little bit leary because of what happened with the Pilot. I was hoping that switching to a Group III would give me many of the benefits of a true Group IV Syn without the seal compatability issues.

However, from this article, it appears that Group IIIs may have the same potential issues as Group IVs:

"Altered solvency action with the paraffinic hydrocracked oils may also adversely affect some gaskets, seals, paint and coupling components."

Any thoughts?

 

[Jeff Kleb]

I have used synthetic oil in every vehicle I have purchased new (or nearly-new) during the past fifteen years. I have never had any trouble with leaks or anything like that.

I currently have an '05 4Runner SR5 4x4 and switched to Mobil-1 synthetic at 5,000 miles. I now have 10,500+ miles and no sign of any leaks.

That being said, if you have any type of leak.....the synthetic is so slippery that it will find it.
:bash:

 

[Koz]

It's all good, but unfortunately I will still be bound by the 5,000 mile OCI because of the warranty.

The article touched briefly on the issue of gasket and seal compatability with Group III's, and there appears to be at least a little concern there. My (mostly my wife's) previous ride was a 2004 Honda Pilot. At 13,000 miles I changed the oil over to Amsoil 0W-30 (PAO-Group IV basestock). When I went to change the oil again at 18,000 miles, I noticed that I had a leak. Turns out my crank seal and oil pan were leaking. It may have been mere coincidence, but up until the point that I switched over to Syn, I had zero leaks.

My wife totaled the Pilot, and we replaced it with the '06 4Runner. I have been thinking about switching to Syn at 5,000 miles, but I am a little bit leary because of what happened with the Pilot. I was hoping that switching to a Group III would give me many of the benefits of a true Group IV Syn without the seal compatability issues.

However, from this article, it appears that Group IIIs may have the same potential issues as Group IVs:

"Altered solvency action with the paraffinic hydrocracked oils may also adversely affect some gaskets, seals, paint and coupling components."

Any thoughts?

There are many reasons for leaks when changing to a different group oil, especially on an older engine that used only dino and changed to synthetic. Seals could swell from the dino oil and then wear-in. When changed to group III to V oils the seals retracted and therefore caused leaks. Also seals could have build-up from dino and when changed to group III

 

[Bluto]

Any thoughts?

What oil did you run in the Pilot prior to the switch? I ran Castrol GTX till 11k, then switched to AMSOIL 0W-30. No leaks so far. I did about the same in my 01 Acura. No leaks after 52k. Maybe Honda changed the gasket material or got a batch of bad gaskets. 13k seems earlier to have leaks realted to switching oil.

 

[Baba Booey]

Of course, there was the factory fill, and then there were one or two changes done by the dealer. If they used the Honda 5W-20 oil, then I would say it was basically a rebadged Exxon Superflo 5W-20 dino.

I changed the oil myself at 10k miles with Havoline 5W-20 dino, and at 13k I switched to Amsoil S2K 0W-30.

I do not believe that with frequent dino oil changes and only 13k miles that the vehicle would have been susceptible to such problems as swollen or sludged seals.

I believe the Pilot had a weak gasket, and the syn exploited it. Maybe I was better off finding the weak gasket sooner rather than later, while it was still under warranty. In that sense, if the syn "caused" the leak, it may have actually done me a favor.

 

[Koz]

Of course, there was the factory fill, and then there were one or two changes done by the dealer. If they used the Honda 5W-20 oil, then I would say it was basically a rebadged Exxon Superflo 5W-20 dino.

I changed the oil myself at 10k miles with Havoline 5W-20 dino, and at 13k I switched to Amsoil S2K 0W-30.

I do not believe that with frequent dino oil changes and only 13k miles that the vehicle would have been susceptible to such problems as swollen or sludged seals.

I believe the Pilot had a weak gasket, and the syn exploited it. Maybe I was better off finding the weak gasket sooner rather than later, while it was still under warranty. In that sense, if the syn "caused" the leak, it may have actually done me a favor.

Why would you use 0w-30 and not stay within the OEM recommended viscosity by using a 0w-20?

Koz

 

[peter78]

Why would you use 0w-30 and not stay within the OEM recommended viscosity by using a 0w-20?

Koz

My parents have a Honda and they were told by the dealer if they have a engine related problem the first thing Honda will do is to check the oil to see if it is the right type, i.e. 5 W 20. If it is heavier wieght they will say your warranty is void.

I think a lot of people think that 5 W 20 is too light and they just wanted to let you know Honda does not share that view. (Also, if you are ever in that unforunate position of having a problem with the engine sieged, you might want to change the oil before taking it in.)

 

[Baba Booey]

Why would you use 0w-30 and not stay within the OEM recommended viscosity by using a 0w-20?

Koz

At the time, I had more confidence in the A3/B3 rated S2K 0W-30 than any 0/5W-20. Honda specs the 5W-20 weight oil for the 3.5L engine only in North America. Everywhere else in the world where they use that exact same engine they spec 30 and/or 40 weight oil. No European or Australian in their right mind would be caught dead with 20 weight oil in their crankcase.

I believe Honda speced the 5W-20 weight, following the lead of Ford, because it increases mpg, and they are a "green" company. I figured that I would let others experiment with 20 weight oil while I used the tried and true 30 weight.

After looking over many UOA's on 5W-20, it appears that my concerns may have been unwarranted, but there is absolutely no way that the 30 weight oil caused the problem because it was "too thick".

I ended up dumping over 5 quarts of brand new German Castrol 0W-30 that I had put in at the 18k mile mark before I took it into the dealer for the seal repair. I replaced it with cheap 5W-20 dino because it was going to be dumped by the dealer anyway.

They never asked me what type of oil I used, how often I changed it, if I had receipts, etc. They did the warranty work with no questions asked. My feeling is that they knew as well as I did that the seals should not have leaked regardless of what oil I was using, so they didn't make a big deal about it.

 

[Koz]

At the time, I had more confidence in the A3/B3 rated S2K 0W-30 than any 0/5W-20. Honda specs the 5W-20 weight oil for the 3.5L engine only in North America. Everywhere else in the world where they use that exact same engine they spec 30 and/or 40 weight oil. No European or Australian in their right mind would be caught dead with 20 weight oil in their crankcase.

I believe Honda speced the 5W-20 weight, following the lead of Ford, because it increases mpg, and they are a "green" company. I figured that I would let others experiment with 20 weight oil while I used the tried and true 30 weight.

After looking over many UOA's on 5W-20, it appears that my concerns may have been unwarranted, but there is absolutely no way that the 30 weight oil caused the problem because it was "too thick".

I ended up dumping over 5 quarts of brand new German Castrol 0W-30 that I had put in at the 18k mile mark before I took it into the dealer for the seal repair. I replaced it with cheap 5W-20 dino because it was going to be dumped by the dealer anyway.

They never asked me what type of oil I used, how often I changed it, if I had receipts, etc. They did the warranty work with no questions asked. My feeling is that they knew as well as I did that the seals should not have leaked regardless of what oil I was using, so they didn't make a big deal about it.

I know the oil didn't cause the leak, I just asked because I was curious.

Koz