Ham radio: more power or external antenna?

[Ryan1975]

That is impressive. Through the glass? Did you have the mag mount inside on a file cabinet? Not as easy to hide as using your cell phone to web surf while working.

We're a small cyber security firm so playing with tech toys is considered cool.

 

[Spudgey]

I'll throw in my 2 cents here too.

I've been licensed since last year and went through the same struggles in deciding what radios I wanted.

I'm just going to give it to you straight. Buy a 30 dollar Baofeng. Learn to love it and use it. Hell buy 2 or 3 of them and just leave them all over the place. They're handy radios to have around and work well enough for their intended purposes. Sure they may not be the most precise instruments in the world, but who really cares? Amateur radio isn't popular enough to where that'd ever be an issue in the real world.

Another thing, know and understand their limitations. I wouldn't rely on them for emergency situations. Radio coverage is too spotty and truly unreliable. You're counting on someone always listening and that's never a guarantee. That said, I had my baofeng hooked up to an external mag mount antenna and I've made a few 70+ mile aprs hits using a mobilink Bluetooth TNC and Aprsdroid on my phone. Is that something you can expect to see on the regular? Nah... probably not. But I will say with an external antenna I could reliably hit repeaters about 30 miles away. Again, your experiences will vary based on your terrain but here in Denver, with everything up on mountain tops, it's no problem.

My current setup uses a Kenwood Tm-v71a that I have mounted in my 4runner. I have a 'groundless' antenna mounted to my roof rack and it does everything I'd ever want it to. With 50 watts of power I've made some 200+ mile hits with APRS using the same mobilink setup.

I had a Yeast ft1xdr handheld for a while but the menu system was the most disorganized nonsense I've ever experienced and for what I spent on the thing I didn't feel it was that much better than my Baofengs. I ended up selling it and now keep a UV5r v2+ in my center console as well as one in my hiking pack for when I'm hiking. Those 2 radios coupled with my Kenwood unit in the car really seem to be the ideal setup for me.

Your needs will obviously vary but don't listen to the naysayers saying Baofengs are worthless. They'll work nearly as well as any of the big 3 bands and because they didn't cost an arm and a leg, if you happen to lose or damage one, it's no big deal.

 

[Nerves]

Cross band repeating. Set up the mobile radio to cross band repeat your handheld to a repeater miles away. Get the best of both worlds. Baofeng is junk.

This is correct ...Crossband connect/repeating is the best solution. I use icom 51A for handheld and iCom 5100 on the 4Runner (comet antenna on 51a and Diamond on 5100). I also sometimes carry the Elecraft KX3 for HF (SOTA/POTA,etc). The Baofeng are good for what they are (sub $50) -nothing lost if the break...vs. my iComs.

K4FDL

 

[e60ral]

i will add that if you get a baofung, don't get the cigarette lighter adapter and mic for it. the mic sounds terrible if you've ever heard it on the other side, and unless your transmitting a lot there is plenty of battery life without needing a sketchy cigarette adapter.

 

[BobsTrail]

Your needs will obviously vary but don't listen to the naysayers saying Baofengs are worthless. They'll work nearly as well as any of the big 3 bands and because they didn't cost an arm and a leg, if you happen to lose or damage one, it's no big deal.

:iagree: Tell me about your groundless antenna, I like the roof rack idea and my rack shows up this week.
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Move all the way up to th F8 for $62 and the remote microphone as in the [MENTION=62425]Ryan1975[/MENTION] photo above. I get a lot of use from mine. It will also work on the family radio frequencies if set to Narrow band and is legal now with the latest FCC changes.

 

[Spudgey]

This is correct ...Crossband connect/repeating is the best solution. I use icom 51A for handheld and iCom 5100 on the 4Runner (comet antenna on 51a and Diamond on 5100). I also sometimes carry the Elecraft KX3 for HF (SOTA/POTA,etc). The Baofeng are good for what they are (sub $50) -nothing lost if the break...vs. my iComs.

K4FDL

I would pick up an Icom id-51a plus in a heart beat if it would have also supported APRS. Instead they use their proprietary D-star system which is frustrating.

APRS was the reason why I went with the Yaesu FT1XDR but unfortunately that radio was just a mess to use. I also like the Kenwood offerings but they were too brick like and a bit more expensive than what I was willing to spend.

With the speed that amateur radio technology advances at I can expect to have my ideal handheld produced hopefully within the next decade.

 

[Spudgey]

:iagree: Tell me about your groundless antenna, I like the roof rack idea and my rack shows up this week.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Move all the way up to th F8 for $62 and the remote microphone as in the [MENTION=62425]Ryan1975[/MENTION] photo above. I get a lot of use from mine. It will also work on the family radio frequencies if set to Narrow band and is legal now with the latest FCC changes.

Sure! So I believe the antennas are also referred to as radialless. I know diamond and comet makes some models of these. The reason I went this route was because I didn't want to drill my roof. Sure, I'm probably losing a bit of performance by not having a proper ground plane but I'm ok with that trade off considering I didn't need to poke holes in my roof.

I literally just installed my Prinsu rack this weekend and fortunately the mount I was previously using on my stock roof rails works relatively well on the Prinsu. The mount is a Diamond Super Gainer K550.

I like this mount a lot because it allows me to rotate the antenna down if I need the clearance for parking it in a garage.

I have it paired with a Comet SS680SB antenna that my local HRO had in stock. I like the spring mount as it works well when going down tight trails with over hanging trees. The antenna has enough give to get out of the way.

Then I just routed the coaxial down the rear hatch, fed it in through the tail light opening, and routed it under some trim panels to under the passenger seat where my radio lives.

So far so good!

Edit: Also wanted to add that my SWR is below 1.5:1 on both 2m and 70cm with this setup.

 

[Nerves]

I would pick up an Icom id-51a plus in a heartbeat if it would have also supported APRS. Instead they use their proprietary D-star system which is frustrating.

APRS was the reason why I went with the Yaesu FT1XDR but unfortunately that radio was just a mess to use. I also like the Kenwood offerings but they were too brick like and a bit more expensive than what I was willing to spend.

With the speed that amateur radio technology advances at I can expect to have my ideal handheld produced hopefully within the next decade.

It all depends on your use case. I've been a "HAM" for a while. and I do packet with DStar (Dstar is heavily used in my region (4)). I also use DPRS. for 2m and 440. With My KX3 I have HF and digital modes (PSK31, etc).

 

[BobsTrail]

Looks good, thanks for all the detail. I already have that Diamond mount for my dune flag. Maybe I'll get another one.

 

[5280 TRail-Runner]

Sure! So I believe the antennas are also referred to as radialless. I know diamond and comet makes some models of these. The reason I went this route was because I didn't want to drill my roof. Sure, I'm probably losing a bit of performance by not having a proper ground plane but I'm ok with that trade off considering I didn't need to poke holes in my roof.

I literally just installed my Prinsu rack this weekend and fortunately the mount I was previously using on my stock roof rails works relatively well on the Prinsu. The mount is a Diamond Super Gainer K550.

I like this mount a lot because it allows me to rotate the antenna down if I need the clearance for parking it in a garage.

I have it paired with a Comet SS680SB antenna that my local HRO had in stock. I like the spring mount as it works well when going down tight trails with over hanging trees. The antenna has enough give to get out of the way.

Then I just routed the coaxial down the rear hatch, fed it in through the tail light opening, and routed it under some trim panels to under the passenger seat where my radio lives.

So far so good!

Edit: Also wanted to add that my SWR is below 1.5:1 on both 2m and 70cm with this setup.

Since you are local, I may have to pick your brains once I get licensed for the HAM radio. I'm digging the groudless mount idea for sure.

 

[Spudgey]

It all depends on your use case. I've been a "HAM" for a while. and I do packet with DStar (Dstar is heavily used in my region (4)). I also use DPRS. for 2m and 440. With My KX3 I have HF and digital modes (PSK31, etc).

This is true for sure. I don't believe Dstar is as active here in my area. I believe more people have switched to DMR use. Also, I'm lucky in that we already have a very extensive network of Digi-peaters and I-gates. It makes using APRS very useful when traveling. It'll be a while before I get my general, mostly due to how much HF setups cost, but when I eventually do I'd love to try all the digital modes on offer.

Looks good, thanks for all the detail. I already have that Diamond mount for my dune flag. Maybe I'll get another one.

No problem! Those diamond mounts are really useful. Would have never thought to use one as a flag mount. Good call on that!

Since you are local, I may have to pick your brains once I get licensed for the HAM radio. I'm digging the groudless mount idea for sure.

Feel free to pm me or start a new thread and I'll do my best to help you out. I'm relatively new to radio but in the past year I've learned a whole lot regarding radios and I may be able to offer some insight for mounting one in the 4runner.

 

[Ryan1975]

Time to whore my install

 

[Nerves]

This is true for sure. I don't believe Dstar is as active here in my area. I believe more people have switched to DMR use. Also, I'm lucky in that we already have a very extensive network of Digi-peaters and I-gates. It makes using APRS very useful when traveling. It'll be a while before I get my general, mostly due to how much HF setups cost, but when I eventually do I'd love to try all the digital modes on offer.


.

List of Dstar Repeaters in Denver:

Frequency Offset Tone Location County Call Use Operational status
145.2500 -0.6 MHz Golden, Lookout Mountain Jefferson W0CDS OPEN ON-AIR
145.3750 -0.6 MHz Colorado Springs, Cheyenne Mountain El Paso KC0CVU OPEN ON-AIR
145.3875 -0.6 MHz Boulder Boulder KC0DS OPEN ON-AIR
446.7500 -5 MHz La Junta, North La Junta Otero KC0ITF PRIVATE ON-AIR
446.7750 -5 MHz Grand Junction Mesa KD0RED OPEN ON-AIR
446.7750 -5 MHz Trinidad, Raton Pass Las Animas KC0CVU OPEN ON-AIR
446.8125 -5 MHz Fort Collins, CSU Durward Hall Larimer W0QEY OPEN ON-AIR
446.8500 -5 MHz Arvada Douglas K0PRA OPEN ON-AIR
446.8625 -5 MHz Boulder Boulder KC0DS OPEN ON-AIR
446.9125 -5 MHz Colorado Springs, Cheyenne Mountain El Paso KC0CVU OPEN ON-AIR
446.9625 -5 MHz Golden, Lookout Mountain Jefferson W0CDS OPEN ON-AIR
446.9750 -5 MHz Salida, Methodist Mountain Chaffee KD0QPG OPEN ON-AIR
449.1500 -5 MHz 136.5 Aurora Arapahoe WR0AEN OPEN ON-AIR
449.3250 -5 MHz 136.5 Greeley Weld WR0AEN OPEN ON-AIR
449.6500 -5 MHz 136.5 Denver Denver WR0AEN OPEN ON-AIR
449.6750 -5 MHz 136.5 Denver Denver WR0AEN OPEN ON-AIR
1283.8625 -12 MHz Boulder Boulder KC0DS OPEN ON-AIR
1283.9625 -12 MHz Golden, Lookout Mountain Jefferson W0CDS OPEN ON-AIR
1299.5000 -12 MHz Boulder Boulder W0DK OPEN ON-AIR
1299.9000 0 MHz Golden, Lookout Mountain Jefferson W0CDS OPEN ON-AIR


link to repeater book:https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/feature_search.php?state_id=08&type=D-Star

 

[Doc.SS]

I am looking at this radio.
Do you think 7/8W is enough when walking/hiking around outside vehicle? Then external antenna when inside?

BaoFeng BF-F8HP (UV-5R 3rd Gen) 8-Watt Dual Band Two-Way Radio (136-174MHz VHF & 400-520MHz UHF) Includes Full Kit with Large Battery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MAULSOK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_Wd3.zb9X9T7SH

I have this radio and for me, it works well. I don't have an external antenna but I do have the ear piece/microphone. I've used it in the mountains and the deserts in Southern California. I've even used it in the mountains in Colorado that were close to 13k feet. I mainly use it to communicate with those in my party when we go out and those close by.
Now, I don't get a lot of range (except in the desert, it'll go for miles and miles) but I can hear those in my party and those close by.
I'm not licensed or a pro, so I am not sure if it will work for your intended use but it works for mine.

 

[e60ral]

I have this radio and for me, it works well. I don't have an external antenna but I do have the ear piece/microphone. I've used it in the mountains and the deserts in Southern California. I've even used it in the mountains in Colorado that were close to 13k feet. I mainly use it to communicate with those in my party when we go out and those close by.
Now, I don't get a lot of range (except in the desert, it'll go for miles and miles) but I can hear those in my party and those close by.
I'm not licensed or a pro, so I am not sure if it will work for your intended use but it works for mine.

You need a license for that radio, it's cheap and easy to get

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[rhlanham]

Huge thumbs up!!!!

Cross band repeating. Set up the mobile radio to cross band repeat your handheld to a repeater miles away. Get the best of both worlds. Baofeng is junk.

 

[Doc.SS]

You need a license for that radio, it's cheap and easy to get

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Good to know, thanks.
Thankfully the FCC has bigger fish to fry.

 

[BobsTrail]

The F8 will transmit and receive on the 2 meter and 70 cm amateur bands where a license is required. It will also T&R on police and sheriff frequencies.

The safe way to use it is on the family radio channels and with others who may have the family type radios or another F5 or F8 set to narrow band.

This is new FCC rule changes since September this year.

 

[MeefZah]

Time to whore my install

I'll play this game

 

[e60ral]

The F8 will transmit and receive on the 2 meter and 70 cm amateur bands where a license is required. It will also T&R on police and sheriff frequencies.

The safe way to use it is on the family radio channels and with others who may have the family type radios or another F5 or F8 set to narrow band.

This is new FCC rule changes since September this year.

you are not allowed to use that radio on FRS channels, it is not type approved