Has anyone pulled V6 engine from 4th Gen 4Runner?

ysrsquid

ysrsquid

Member
Renamed- Pulling V6 from 4th Gen 4Runner. Spun Main Bearings

Has anyone been lucky enough to pull the V6 engine from a 4th generation 4Runner? My wife's 04 has rod knock and I am in the process of pulling the motor but I haven't been able to get a manual set so I have a couple of questions.

First to answer the question of why I'm pulling the motor from a 2004 Limited with less than 30k miles which I have owned for 3 months..... The stupid oil filter's seal blew out one day while my wife was driving. The engine pumped out all of the oil through the leaking oil filter. Rather than stopping when the engine stalled, she fired it back up and continued shopping. She claims she didn't know there was an issue, but I figure the smoke pouring from the engine compartment and every gauge lit up (and knocking, and engine stalling) were pretty good indicators of a problem. I replaced the oil filter and refilled the motor. I could tell something was wrong because the motor sounded off (out of balance) and there was a slight ticking noise. 2 weeks later the ticking noise turned into full out rod knock. I'm sure a rod bearing has failed.

I have searched online for the Toyota manual set. I think that I have a partal set from an online .pdf "ObsidianCorp" that I got through eBay (also referenced in another recent thread http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25024&highlight=toyota+service+manuals). The .pdf file includes the "Wiring Schematics" and the "Diagnostic & Troubleshooting" sections. Unfortunately, based on the questions below, I need the "Engine, Body & Chassis" manual.

Status of Truck: Engine and Transmission are still in truck but virtually everything else has been removed except for exhaust manifolds and starter.

Questions:
1 - Can the V6 engine/transmission be pulled out of this truck together or must the transmission be removed first?
Answer - I pulled Transmission first. I don't think I could have gotten out with the Engine.
2 - Do the exhaust manifolds need to come off before pulling motor?
Answer - Leave em on. Engine came out no problem.
3 - Will the vehicles security system have any issues when I reassemble the vehicle?
Answer: No problems with security system.
4 - If I end up going with a different motor from totalled 4Runner will the truck's security system recognize that something is different?
Answer: Nope. But guess what... just because Toyota gives a different year motor the same code does NOT mean they are the same. The 2004 V6 4.0L 1GR-FE is different than the 2005 1GR-FE motor.
5 - If yes to #3 or #4, what would need to be done before restarting the vehicle?
Answer: Pray.
6 - Anyone in the Austin, TX area willing to let me look at thier copy of the "Engine, Body & Chassis" manual?
Answer - Nope. I broke down and bought a copy from Toyota.

Thanks in advance for any insite, Dave
 
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The damage wasn't covered under warranty because Toyota saw it as operator neglect (it was). I'll paraphrase the Toyota warranty since I don't have the paperwork here with me.... "Toyota warranties all workamanship and material quality for all parts used for original assembly of your car. Toyota does cover Operator Supiditiy. That's covered under Darwinism."

I did take the car to a Toyota dealership when it started knocking. I didn't have to mention what happened. Even though I had cleaned the engine compartment and underside at least 5 times, there was still residual oil everywhere. They knew that the truck had lost its oil... so they gently let me know that under no uncertain terms I was screwed.
 
GYoter said:
I havent, but i know there was a guy on yotatech who was swapping a 04 v6 into a 2nd gen runner. Do a search over there and he might have some of the info you seek. Good luck.

actually here is the thread. Dont know if it has any onfo you need but it might.
http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=53160&highlight=v6+swap
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Wow, I read though that swap. I wouldn't ever dream fo being the first to try some swap. Unfortunately there isn't any information on how the old drivetrain came out.
 
None of the security stuff (RS3200 or immobilizer) is tied to the engine itself so no problem there. If a Toyota filter was used and installed by the dealer aren't they still involved. I've installed filters with the old gasket still there and a big resulting leak but have never experience an oil seal failure (is that one of those orange FRAM filters?)
 
wolfgang said:
None of the security stuff (RS3200 or immobilizer) is tied to the engine itself so no problem there. If a Toyota filter was used and installed by the dealer aren't they still involved. I've installed filters with the old gasket still there and a big resulting leak but have never experience an oil seal failure (is that one of those orange FRAM filters?)
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Wolfgang, thanks for heads up on the security/immobilizer stuff. I was somewhat concerned that I was going to get the car back together only to find out I had tripped the immobilizer (on a side note when I was searching for my 4Runner I ran across one at a Nissan dealership where someone had used the standard door key on the ignition and immobilized the car. Imagine the call from the Nissan dealership to the local Toyota dealership requesting someone to reset the immobilizer!).

The oil filter that failed was not installed by a dealer or other shop. I have done all my motorcycle and car maintenance for 25 years. So unfortunately I installed the filter when I bought the 4Runner back in August. We had actually driven the car almost 4000 miles when we had the problem. I check my oil when I fill up with gas and I had actually checked the oil 2 days before the ummmm. oil mishap. It was full at that point although it was leaking a small bit of oil which was cought in the 'tray' that the oil filter sits on. There wasn't an old gasket there from previous oil filter. Someone else mentioned it to me and I had looked for that. Also unfortunately, the oil filter was not the brand I normally use (I normally use Mobil 1 filter). I can't remember which brand it was but I think I still have it in the back of wife's trunk (which is stuck shut from ice right now).

I actually have seen 1 other oil filter fail somewhere around 1995. It was also a spin on type oil filter. I think the bike was a Honda CBR600F2. We were at Oak Hill Raceway in Henderson, TX. The motorcycle was accellerating out of a turn and then we saw oil everywhere. The guy went down the straightaway oiling his tires only to find no traction when he tried to stop for the next turn. It turns out there was another bike just like his that had a failure the same weekend at some other track. Both bikes had Fram oil filters which had just been replaced. Turns out that Fram had just moved thier manufacturing of this filter to Mexico and the machine that was turning the threads was worn out. The result was that the filters failed. Of course this failure isn't anything like mine.

So in hindsite there were warning signs that there was something wrong with the filter. The filter was always leaking a little oil into the tray every time I checked it. This is my first Toyota and I had seen it on another 4Runner that I had test driven so I had assumed that could happen. Also, on the last time that I checked the oil (before failure) the filter seemed loose. I had given the filter a little tug to make sure that the filter was tight. I hadn't ever used any mechanical tools to tighten the oil filter so I hadn't thoght that the filter was overtightened. It is certainally possible that I overtighted the filter by hand. Also, my wife's previous car (and current car again) is a 19 year old BMW 528e with 350,000 miles. The 528e has a low oil level warning that comes on when the engine is about 1/2 quart below full. You could drive the car for months before you had to worry about loosing oil pressure. Its a great early warning system but if you get used to ignoring it until later in the day it sets a very bad habbit when you get in a car without the low oil level warning feature. I REALLY wish that Toyota had that feature. I think that my wife assumed that the oil light coming on in her new Toyota was just a low oil level light rather than low oil pressure light. Now I really wish I had fully explained the difference and urgency of any warning lights on the Toyota.
 
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I would have assumed the filter was loose resulting in the leak, not overtightened, especially by hand. Considering how hard it was to get the filter off my 06 for the first time I don't think overtightening was the problem. Sucks that it happened though.

Bill3508
 
Ok its sexist but - women tend to treat cars like vacuum cleaners. They run or they don't. Been telling my daughter for over a year that the timing chain on her (my old) '90 22RE 4Runner needed to be replaced (now 176k miles). At Thanksgiving she said "oh, and the clutch is slipping too." I told her to check to ensure she had towing on her insurance policy. Turns out she needed it 2 weeks later. Timing chain ate hole thru housing mixing coolant with oil. Plus the flywheel was a dark blue and surface looked like aligator skin. So nearly double the cost of the repair and vehicle down time. Guess what we now call idiot lights came about from "folks" ignoring the gauge readings! I feel your pain!
 
wolfgang said:
Ok its sexist but - women tend to treat cars like vacuum cleaners. They run or they don't. Been telling my daughter for over a year that the timing chain on her (my old) '90 22RE 4Runner needed to be replaced (now 176k miles). At Thanksgiving she said "oh, and the clutch is slipping too." I told her to check to ensure she had towing on her insurance policy. Turns out she needed it 2 weeks later. Timing chain ate hole thru housing mixing coolant with oil. Plus the flywheel was a dark blue and surface looked like aligator skin. So nearly double the cost of the repair and vehicle down time. Guess what we now call idiot lights came about from "folks" ignoring the gauge readings! I feel your pain!
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There's nothing like really screwing something up to get an appreciation for taking care of it. My wife periodically comes out to the garage and she gets suprised that I am still taking parts out of the engine compartment or underside of truck. I don't think she has any idea what will be left when I get that mysterious 'engine thingy' out.

The good news is that she's now super tuned into those warning lights and lets me know whenever the temp gauge momentarly shutters on her 528e which she gets to drive again.

I guess if you drive a car long enough you get to pop an engine just to find out what it takes to do it. I just really wished it had happened in the OLD CAR.
 
ysrsquid said:
There's nothing like really screwing something up to get an appreciation for taking care of it. My wife periodically comes out to the garage and she gets suprised that I am still taking parts out of the engine compartment or underside of truck. I don't think she has any idea what will be left when I get that mysterious 'engine thingy' out.

The good news is that she's now super tuned into those warning lights and lets me know whenever the temp gauge momentarly shutters on her 528e which she gets to drive again.

I guess if you drive a car long enough you get to pop an engine just to find out what it takes to do it. I just really wished it had happened in the OLD CAR.
Click to expand...

If it is just a rod bearing/s, you might want to just pull the oil pan first and take a look before pulling the entire engine. In most cases, you can change the rod bearings with the engine in the vehicle if the crank isn't damaged. Of course, from the way you described the engine noise, the crank is probably NG, but it is still worth a look first.
 
TechWrench said:
If it is just a rod bearing/s, you might want to just pull the oil pan first and take a look before pulling the entire engine. In most cases, you can change the rod bearings with the engine in the vehicle if the crank isn't damaged. Of course, from the way you described the engine noise, the crank is probably NG, but it is still worth a look first.
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When the engine first started knocking (really knocking to the point that there was no guessing if there was a problem) I had the car towed to a dealership. The dealership was going to drop the pan to take a look. They called back 1 hour later to say that the whole motor has to come out to drop the oilpan. The dealership wanted $1200 just to pull and inspect motor. They also quoted $8600 to pull and repair motor so I said, "No thanks. Looks like I'm pulling my own motor."

At this point the transmission is ready to come out. I decided to drop it separately from the engine because I don't want to tear anything up on the way out. I'm fairly concerned about breaking a A/C line. Also, I don't know if my engine hoist would be able to raise the engine + transmission high enough to get them out of the truck.

Besides, at this point the transmission's ready to come out. I have only a couple more of the engine/transmission mounting bolts left before dropping the transmission. After the transmission, I'll probably pull 1 or both exhaust manifolds and then the motor will be ready to come out.

If the bearings could have been replaced with the motor still in I would have left it at the dealership for them to do. But since the motor needs to come out (for either rebuild or replace), I'm saving some cash by doing the work myself.

I do agree that I am concerned about the crankshaft. Hopefully it isn't too damaged and hopefully it can be turned down if it is scored.

Wish me luck! Dave
 
Just a thought.
You confirmed major run time without oil. At least pull the heads to inspect further. Get yourself a complete replacement short (or even long) block if needed. You're putting this much effort into it but you don't know what else is damaged (cylinders, pistons, etc... or burned valves, lifters, etc...) You are already saving money doing it yourself but if it was me I wouldn't cheap out at this point and just do bearings.
 
Kmvreter said:
Just a thought.
You confirmed major run time without oil. At least pull the heads to inspect further. Get yourself a complete replacement short (or even long) block if needed. You're putting this much effort into it but you don't know what else is damaged (cylinders, pistons, etc... or burned valves, lifters, etc...) You are already saving money doing it yourself but if it was me I wouldn't cheap out at this point and just do bearings.
Click to expand...

I have really struggled on how much work I'm going to put into this motor. For quite a while I was going to buy a replacement motor (out of totalled 4Runner). Most replacement motors are running between $2500 and $3500. I was concerned about heat destroying top piston ring or exhaust valve. If there is damage in the head, then I will probably just go with replacement motor. If the crank is really buggered up then the decision has been made for me.

I have actually been given hope by the owner of the local BMW shop where I have been buying parts for my other cars for years. He's an excellent mechanic and he's great source of information. He knows I do my own mechanical work and I often rely on his advice. I return the favor by recommending his shop (Black Forrest BMW in Austin) to any friends with a BMW and I buy all of my parts through him. He knows the situation and he thinks that there's a good chance that the damage is limited to the rod bearings. He actually expects that the main bearings may be good still (!) He doesn't expect the cam bearings to have any issues even though it is possible. I have done a compression check on the motor and the compression is still around 160psi per chamber. There is hope still for this motor without a great deal of rework. When I get the motor out I will then have to make that decision about pulling heads. If I pull the heads then the pistons might as well come out....
 
Just a slight suggestion -- if your hoist can't raise the engine high enough, you can always take the front wheels off of the vehicle, put two large floor jacks under the frame/suspension, and lower the jacks all the way down as low as they'll go. It will probably lower the vehicle a good extra 6-12 inches over what you'd get if you just left the vehicles on its regular tires.

Just a thought, in case you need just that tiny little extra clearance.

Ricky
 
ysrsquid said:
When the engine first started knocking (really knocking to the point that there was no guessing if there was a problem) I had the car towed to a dealership. The dealership was going to drop the pan to take a look. They called back 1 hour later to say that the whole motor has to come out to drop the oilpan. The dealership wanted $1200 just to pull and inspect motor. They also quoted $8600 to pull and repair motor so I said, "No thanks. Looks like I'm pulling my own motor."

At this point the transmission is ready to come out. I decided to drop it separately from the engine because I don't want to tear anything up on the way out. I'm fairly concerned about breaking a A/C line. Also, I don't know if my engine hoist would be able to raise the engine + transmission high enough to get them out of the truck.

Besides, at this point the transmission's ready to come out. I have only a couple more of the engine/transmission mounting bolts left before dropping the transmission. After the transmission, I'll probably pull 1 or both exhaust manifolds and then the motor will be ready to come out.

If the bearings could have been replaced with the motor still in I would have left it at the dealership for them to do. But since the motor needs to come out (for either rebuild or replace), I'm saving some cash by doing the work myself.

I do agree that I am concerned about the crankshaft. Hopefully it isn't too damaged and hopefully it can be turned down if it is scored.

Wish me luck! Dave
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From my experience, it is usually not necessary to remove the trans when pulling a motor. You didn't specify, but I am guessing you have a 2wd, not a 4wd, because it is a lot more difficult to pull the 4wd trans. If you just pull the motor, you shouldn't have any problem with the lift height of most engine hoists. The suggestion to remove the front wheels to lower the front end is interesting, but once you do that, you will have a problem getting under the vehicle for any last min adjustments or missed connections. And I have found that the first time you pull an engine, or a new type of engine, you usually forget something underneath. If you can get your hands on a shop manual, it will give you a good, step by step set of instructions on removing the engine along with engine rebuild info.

Good luck.
 
Well, if that's an issue and you forget something, just raise the vehicle back up. You typically will only lower the vehicle down when you're sure the engine is completely free and you're ready to move it completely away from the vehicle. By that point, you should have the engine out high enough anyways that you'll see there's nothing else connected.

I've done many (at least 6-7) engine swaps that way with CRXs where I'll get the engine up mostly free of the engine bay, then I lower the car down and push it back out of the way, then I lower the engine to the ground. This was the case when I had a fixed hoist attached to the roof of the garage and didn't have one with wheels. The car itself had to roll, as rolling the engine away from the car wasn't an option for me.

Ricky
 
RickyCRX said:
Well, if that's an issue and you forget something, just raise the vehicle back up. You typically will only lower the vehicle down when you're sure the engine is completely free and you're ready to move it completely away from the vehicle. By that point, you should have the engine out high enough anyways that you'll see there's nothing else connected.

I've done many (at least 6-7) engine swaps that way with CRXs where I'll get the engine up mostly free of the engine bay, then I lower the car down and push it back out of the way, then I lower the engine to the ground. This was the case when I had a fixed hoist attached to the roof of the garage and didn't have one with wheels. The car itself had to roll, as rolling the engine away from the car wasn't an option for me.

Ricky
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I can see how that method would help if you have a fixed chain hoist with low overhead clearance. I am lucky enough to have a freestanding engine crane, that rolls. Now all I need is a garage I can work in.
 
TechWrench said:
From my experience, it is usually not necessary to remove the trans when pulling a motor. You didn't specify, but I am guessing you have a 2wd, not a 4wd, because it is a lot more difficult to pull the 4wd trans. If you just pull the motor, you shouldn't have any problem with the lift height of most engine hoists. The suggestion to remove the front wheels to lower the front end is interesting, but once you do that, you will have a problem getting under the vehicle for any last min adjustments or missed connections. And I have found that the first time you pull an engine, or a new type of engine, you usually forget something underneath. If you can get your hands on a shop manual, it will give you a good, step by step set of instructions on removing the engine along with engine rebuild info.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

My 4Runner is a 2WD. I pulled the transmission last night so no turning back now. All I have are the engine mounts to go and the engine comes out.
 
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