Has Anyone Used This Approach

[LAT4R]

On buying a new car.

It is called "Fax Attack" from Fightingchance.com

Basically you contact or fax about 15 dealers to see who will give you the best deal (With them competing for your sale) Then you go back to all of them with the lowest price to see who wants the sale.

How did if work? Get a good deal or waste of time?

Thanks

 

[00328]

I used this approach to buy my '05 LTD and feel it worked out very well. You just need to make sure you fax your letter to the right person.
I think I faxed out about a doz letters and only got 5 responses. Didn't matter because the first dealer to call me is the one I went with. No B.S. at all, he simply said "here's what I can do". Also, this dealership did not charge any dealer prep & handling which can be $400-500.
You need to go test drive the vehicle and know exactly what options you want or don't want before you put your letter together.

 

[tkr128]

I went the email route. Basically, I sent all of the nearby dealers an email stating which model I wanted with which options and they replied back. I didn't go back to all of them with the lowest price though. I bought mine from the 2nd cheapest dealer only because it was only a $50 difference and it was closer.

I ended up paying $3000 under MSRP (less than $100 over invoice) and dealt with fleet sales. No haggling on price, just went in, picked a color, test drove the car, signed the papers and that was it.

 

[LAT4R]

I went the email route. Basically, I sent all of the nearby dealers an email stating which model I wanted with which options and they replied back. I didn't go back to all of them with the lowest price though. I bought mine from the 2nd cheapest dealer only because it was only a $50 difference and it was closer.

I ended up paying $3000 under MSRP (less than $100 over invoice) and dealt with fleet sales. No haggling on price, just went in, picked a color, test drove the car, signed the papers and that was it.

Cool,

Thanks for the reply. This time next week i will be landing in the US and i will be ready to start getting prices on 05 4Runners.

Thanks

 

[iamtwonice]

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THE EXPRESSION A FOOL AND THEIR MONEY ARE SOON PARTED!!!!!!

You can do this your self for free. It is called email, you send a email to say 50 dealers asking for their lowest price. Then you send a email with the best price you got so far. let them go to war and you get the best price. Plus you did all this for free. I purchased my suv like this and it worked like a charm. Do you like to pay people for simple things you can do for free!!!! Just sit back and enjoy the show. Modern technology is wonderfull, take advantage of it for free!!!

 

[LAT4R]

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THE EXPRESSION A FOOL AND THEIR MONEY ARE SOON PARTED!!!!!!

You can do this your self for free. It is called email, you send a email to say 50 dealers asking for their lowest price. Then you send a email with the best price you got so far. let them go to war and you get the best price. Plus you did all this for free. I purchased my suv like this and it worked like a charm. Do you like to pay people for simple things you can do for free!!!! Just sit back and enjoy the show. Modern technology is wonderfull, take advantage of it for free!!!

Thanks for the info. Again this is going to be my very first vehicle to purchase and i want to get the best deal i can.

Thanks

 

[T4RMatt]

Do not do this method. It is rude and inconsiderate. You should go to a dealer and find the vehicle you are looking for and deal with one sales person from start to finish. When you decide the vehicle you want go home and get on edmunds.com and print off the invoice and any applicable incentives. When you are ready to buy go back to the dealer with your papers and tell them you will buy the vehicle at hand for something like $200 over their cost (they will still be getting a fair amount in holdback). If they refuse, then simply thank them for their time and tell them you must go check with another dealer. More than likely they will chase you out to your car and meet your deal. It is important to remember when trading vehicles in that you tell the dealer you want him to show you the true value of the trade and what you are buying the new car for as seperate, and not to over allow your trade. Please dont try the fax thing, I used to sell cars while in college and more than anything you will piss the dealers off and end up getting a bad deal. If you ever want to know what to pay for a car just ask me what a good price would be.

 

[00328]

RUDE???? Most dealers will take you to the cleaners if you let them. How rude is that?
It's called looking out for yourself and getting the most bang for your buck.
Fax or email is the ONLY way to go. Saves driving all over town and wasting Saturday after Saturday.

 

[biglatka]

Do not do this method. It is rude and inconsiderate........

T4Rmatt,
I have to disagree with you on that. There is nothing rude or inconsiderate about shopping around for the best deal you can get whether you use a fax, us mail, email, telephone, the Internet, or going into each dealer personally. All those dealers are going to try to get the best deal for themselves, why shouldn't the customer do the same? As long as you conduct yourself in a respectful businesslike manner there is nothing rude or inconsiderate about shopping for a car this way.

There are quite a few books out, written by previous car salesperson(s), on the tactics car dealers use to extract the highest profit from unsuspecting inexperienced consumers. You have to remember that car salesman/women sell cars every day and are well acquainted with every tactic, but many consumers are for most part like sheep coming in for the slaughter if that don't first educate themselves on the process of car buying.

I bought two 4Runners in the past two years and in both purchases there was quite a difference in what I paid for them by being an informed consumer, leaving my ego outside the showroom, and paying attention to forums such as this one; compared to what I could have been taken for if I hadn't done my homework in both cases. At no time was I ever rude or inconsiderate, but I did make liberal use of emails, telephone, and the Internet to shop around, thereby saving much time, gasoline, and money.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

The Best Deal


Buying a car from a 'traditional' dealership is like wrestling in the mud with a pig. You end up tired & dirty, while the pig has fun and wants to do the same thing again to the next guy (customer).

As consumers have slowly become better informed and have educated themselves about the buying/negotiation process, the dealership and its salespeople still have the upper hand. You buy one new car every three to five years - perhaps less frequently. They might sell as many as 10 or 15 in a day. It is rather obvious who has the advantage.

Your "search" for a new car should begin at least two or three months before you actually drive one home. Do your homework first!! It is hard to do, but trust me on this. Keep the emotion in check. Otherwise, they'll have your cojones in a vise.
:bash:

Check out the typical web pages for pricing information and comments from other buyers of the vehicle you want. A few that come to mind are Cars.com, Edmunds.com and the Kelley Blue Book ( http://www.kbb.com ). Of course, there are myriads of others out there. Do a Google search and you'll get at least a thousand sites from which to choose. In my case, I used Costco ( http://www.costco.com ) because I knew that I wanted a 36-month closed-end lease and did not plan on an outright purchase.

Costco has 'member only' pricing that you get without having to haggle. They have you fill out a form on-line, a dealership sales manager calls you to make an appointment, you go straight to him - thus avoiding the circling vultures on the lot - and he'll let you take a no-pressure test drive. If you are still interested, he will show you their best offer on the car/truck you want.

I got his price & payment quote, and then went on-line and also used the telephone to contact three other dealerships that claimed to have "low" prices. One was exactly the same, one was higher because of those pesky extra 'processing fees' and the third one would have saved me about $200 on the capitalized cost.......but it was 100 miles away. I went with the first one, the local dealership who participates in the Costco program.

I might have been able to save a few more bucks by driving all the way to Maryland, but it becomes moot once you get within one or two hundred dollars of what you want to pay. You reach a certain point where it is not worth quibbling over chump change.

When looking for a good deal, it also helps if you have excellent credit, have arranged your own financing (or at least a nice down payment) and that you do not have a trade-in vehicle. Most stealerships make more on used cars, financing and other 'extras' such as pinstripes, rustproofing, protection packages & extended warranties than they do on new cars now anyway.

If you get a "great deal" on the purchase price, you can bet they'll pad the other parts of the deal to make their numbers better. For example, a bank might quote the dealer a 4% interest rate on a loan, but the salesman will say that you were approved for 6%......and put the difference (which adds up over the course of your loan) right into his pocket.

Maybe they are slimy and maybe that is just the way they do business, but most will continue such tactics if people will let them. I know there are customers out there who will gripe about a ten-cent price difference on a can of beans, but have no problem with willingly paying thousands of dollars too much for their daily transportation.


By the way, when I am car-shopping I honestly do the most to avoid wasting the commissoned salesman's time & effort. It is a two-way street and it is not fair to expect him to put forth several hours of his day if you know that there is no way you'll be buying a car there. It is a very cut-throat business, but the auto industry has only themselves to blame for it. Until every car maker adopts the Saturn "one price" system or requires its franchisees to adhere to a particular price structure, not much is going to change.

Good luck!!!!

 

[vandert]

I did it with Email

Saved a ton, and had one dealer actually take mine off the other dealer I was pitting him against's lot. Took me almost two weeks of emailing different quotes between what boiled down to 3 different locations fighting for me.

I finally bought mine through David Maus Toyota in Sanford Fl if your interested.

T

 

[ssmathis]

I used this approach. I'll never go into a dealership again to purchase a car until I actually have to. I faxed 20 dealerships around the area and had 4 fighting against each other. I gave each dealership a fair opportunity to compete for my business and it was soon clear that going into a dealership and shopping would just have wasted my time and theirs.

Scott

 

[noserider]

Guys

Timely thread for me. I'm finalizing my option wants and will be making an offer on an 06 soon. One question I have are the fee's that are in the deal. I'm looking at a printout that was given to me yesterday from a dealer. The offer from the dealer was $500 over invoice. I assumed that meant 500 over invoice plus delivery ($595.00) and ttl. The printout I am looking at has M.A.F $409.00, T.D.A $290.00, Base -Veh-HB $593.00, PIO-HB $144.00, Finance reserve $296.00. Can someone enlighten me on these? I was told that the customer must be charged for marketing cost? Is this true? If so are there other fee/cost that toyota charges to the customer besides ttl and delivery that are non negotiable?

Thanks

Ron

 

[RunUp]

noserider
The dealers here in memphis gave me most of those numbers too. They took "their" invoice and did me a "favor" by knocking off $900, (not including rebate). This $900 off invoice was in fact the true invoice according to edmunds.com

That Base -Veh-HB really ticks me off. That's the money Toyota gives them so they still make money on invoice selling. Then they have the gall to try and charge us this again, so they're basically doubling their profit on that one charge alone. Just do your homework and be ready to walk.

 

[00328]

That Base-Veh-HB is the hold-back that the dealer receives from Toyota for selling this vehicle, no matter what price they sell it for.
I don't know about those other B.S. fees, but this is one that the buyer does not pay.
Just tell the dealer to give you the best price, period. If they want to sell the vehicle, they need to eat some or all of those fees.
Ask for an "out the door" price. Go to another dealer and ask their "out the door" price.
Like RunUp said, walk if you need to.

It's frustrating because you have an investment of time dealing with this dealer and it's a PITA to go to another dealer and start all over again.
That's the main reason I leave this negotiation process to faxes or emails. Tons less time and trouble.

 

[noserider]

RunUp

Thanks for the reply. I'm trying to do my homework. Hopefully I can get some hard answers on which of the fee's/charges they are adding are bs and which ones I'm stuck with paying. Unfortunately edmunds and other sites do not spell this out in detail. I now see that HB charge is holdback. I never even imagined it to be that since I knew they were already getting that from the dealer. Hopefully some of the other forum memebers will enlighten me/us on what is reasonable to pay and what is negotiable. Anyone?

Thanks again and let me know how you do!

Ron

 

[T4RMatt]

I will clarify what I meant earlier about the rude comment. Do not waste the time of someone at another dealership if you are only going to take the offer they make back to the dealer closer to your house and say "match it." I used to get angry when people would come in and would get my price with the intention of going back to their local dealer and getting them to match it. Personally, I have no trouble negotiating with people. When buying a vehicle the more knowledge you have the better. Expect to be lied to many times, but as long as you don't waiver from your initial offer you should keep the upper hand. Dont get frusturated with the process. Just be firm. Remember that the dealer (sales manager) will always try everything they can to get the most money out of you, but ultimately a car sold for a small profit is better than no car sold at all.

Holdback was started back in the early days of car sales when dealers would frequently go belly up due to mismanagement of their money. The manufacturers response was to hold back some of their money from the sale of each vehicle and give it to them at a later date in order to keep them from spending all of their money from the sales and having nothing left over. Now, as far as people complaining about holdback....do you really think a car dealer should make nothing on the sale of the car? I mean it costs money to have the people and property to run a dealership. Why should you expect them to make nothing? Most no haggle programs are a rip off. FYI Carmax makes about $1000 to $2000 a car with their no haggle pricing. This is a lot more than we would expect to pay over invoice on a new vehicle....is it not? I guess I just dont understand why people cant simply go into a transaction knowing how much invoice is and how much they will pay over and simply make the offer. If the dealer says no on the first pencil, simply say we are too far apart and walk away. You will win.

 

[Expat]

I will clarify what I meant earlier about the rude comment. Do not waste the time of someone at another dealership ...... I used to get angry when people would come in ....... Expect to be lied to many times..... Remember that the dealer (sales manager) will always try everything they can to get the most money out of you...

Honestly, your arguement makes no sense. You admit that buyers will get lied to "many times: yet you expect the buyer to not frustrate the seller (salespeople). :bash:

It's not rude to chase prices..that's the free market system. You can bet that it has worked for you in the past as someone bought from you (as a sales rep) after price chasing another dealer. Don't be naive.

I bought my 04 Runner here in CA while I was overseas (Hong Kong) as my wife (who moved before I settled business in HK)needed the car for 6 months before I arrived.

I emailed a ton of dealers around CA for a best price. Several got back to me and I was upfront about the best price to other dealers. A few came back with better offers/incentives.

Eventually I went with Longo Toyota who I think had the biggest dealership and range and had more flexibility with pricing.

I still get emails (a little annoying admittedly) from some of the salespeople I dealt with before I finally settled. There's no anomosity...its all just business

 

[Sifrk]

I hate to generalize, but I think most car sales-people tends to be more commission-focused for obvious reasons. They're after their cut and often won't waste time with you if they have the slightest hint that you're not serious. Often, if you even utter the words "I'm researching the car" or "I'd like to see the available options before deciding", they're turned off and can be rude at times.

When I went in to buy my SE, I was met by this jerk that had the nuts to tell me that it didn't seem to him that I was serious. Until I told him that my checkbook was in my friend's car and that all I wanted to do was to ensure a good price, he didn't pay me too much attention. After we came back from the test drive, he apologized about the "misunderstanding". What misunderstanding? On the several surveys from the dealership and Toyota, I told them my real thoughts on the idiot that waited on me. I hope they take those surveys seriously.

And just in case you guys are thinking why I put up with that? That dearlership was the only one that had a vehicle with the specs I wanted. It was a little over a month ago, so needless to say, finding a vehicle with my exact requirements was difficult.

I will NEVER buy from a sales-person. The one time I did, they screwed me (my first used car purchase at 16 years of age). It'll always be Internet first for me!

 

[LAT4R]

I will clarify what I meant earlier about the rude comment. Do not waste the time of someone at another dealership if you are only going to take the offer they make back to the dealer closer to your house and say "match it." I used to get angry when people would come in and would get my price with the intention of going back to their local dealer and getting them to match it. Personally, I have no trouble negotiating with people. When buying a vehicle the more knowledge you have the better. Expect to be lied to many times, but as long as you don't waiver from your initial offer you should keep the upper hand. Dont get frusturated with the process. Just be firm. Remember that the dealer (sales manager) will always try everything they can to get the most money out of you, but ultimately a car sold for a small profit is better than no car sold at all.

Holdback was started back in the early days of car sales when dealers would frequently go belly up due to mismanagement of their money. The manufacturers response was to hold back some of their money from the sale of each vehicle and give it to them at a later date in order to keep them from spending all of their money from the sales and having nothing left over. Now, as far as people complaining about holdback....do you really think a car dealer should make nothing on the sale of the car? I mean it costs money to have the people and property to run a dealership. Why should you expect them to make nothing? Most no haggle programs are a rip off. FYI Carmax makes about $1000 to $2000 a car with their no haggle pricing. This is a lot more than we would expect to pay over invoice on a new vehicle....is it not? I guess I just dont understand why people cant simply go into a transaction knowing how much invoice is and how much they will pay over and simply make the offer. If the dealer says no on the first pencil, simply say we are too far apart and walk away. You will win.

I bet you pay MSRP on every vehicle you buy. At least it sounds that way.

Thanks for your Opinion