Headlights won't turn off, what's my issue?

[sharpe97]

Okay guys, I have a 99 Limited with the auto-off headlights, (the ones where when you turn the car off and open the door the lights turn off) and after driving today, I turned my car off, opened the door and when walking in front of the car I noticed that my headlights were still on. I thought that I had maybe opened the door before turning the car off and that had kept them from turning off, so I walked back around, unlocked the door and manually turned the switch to off, and walked in front and they were still on! I went back and flipped between on and off a few times, but no dice, I couldn't get them to turn off. Started the car, shut the door, turned on and off and still nothing. Turned the car off and took out the keys, opened the door and still nothing.

What is the problem here? I just noticed it today, but I don't think it has been happening longer, because I didn't see it last night in the dark when I parked it. I ended up having to pull the L and R Head fuses from the engine bay fusebox to get them off so they wouldn't kill my battery.

Any ideas of what it could be? A relay of some sorts or the headlight stalk? Or could it be a battery issue? As far as I could tell I'm not having any other electrical problems, radio, interior lights, lightbar, etc, are all acting normally. Any help would be appreciated. I'd rather not have to pop the hood and pull/insert fuses every time I need headlights.

Thanks.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

When my truck had this problem it was the daytime running light module took a crap. Truck was a Dodge Ram.

 

[Paperjam]

Switch contacts could be stuck, relay could be shorted, or you have a shot to power between the switch and the lights. The fact that the switch is inoperative probably points to the relay, Try swapping the relay for another one. You might have to get a wiring diagram to figure out how the circuit works before you start throwing parts at it.

 

[sharpe97]

Still having problems out of this. I don't know if it's the switch itself or a relay, because sometimes they work like normal and I have no problems from them. Seems to only happen when it's wet out. The headlight fuses under the hood are fine, no corrosion or anything. If it's a relay which one could it be? Every thread I've found on this has no answer or the problem resolved itself. Any suggestions are welcome!

 

[TheDurk]

Still having problems out of this. I don't know if it's the switch itself or a relay, because sometimes they work like normal and I have no problems from them. Seems to only happen when it's wet out. The headlight fuses under the hood are fine, no corrosion or anything. If it's a relay which one could it be? Every thread I've found on this has no answer or the problem resolved itself. Any suggestions are welcome!

This is because people like to guess instead of troubleshoot the circuit. Guessing don't work so good with electrons.

Stalk switch or Head Relay.

Headlights OFF, in fail mode with headlights burning, see if you have ground at Pin 3 of Head Relay. If you don't, and lights are on, then Head Relay is at fault. If you do have ground, relay is ok and fault is likely at stalk, so....

Again, Headlights OFF, in fail mode with headlights burning, see if you have ground in Red/Yellow wire from stalk switch Pin 13 to gauge cluster Pin 1 on Plug C27. C27 has two rows of pins, 7 on top with #1 on left, and 11 on the bottom. If ground in that wire, fault is in stalk switch.

One of those two conditions should exist. The only other possibility is the cluster, but let's rule these out first.

Wire diagram below is identical to the one in my paper 1999 4Runner EWD:

 

[IBallEngineer]

This is because people like to guess instead of troubleshoot the circuit. Guessing don't work so good with electrons.

Stalk switch or Head Relay.

Headlights OFF, in fail mode with headlights burning, see if you have ground at Pin 3 of Head Relay. If you don't, and lights are on, then Head Relay is at fault. If you do have ground, relay is ok and fault is likely at stalk, so....

Again, Headlights OFF, in fail mode with headlights burning, see if you have ground in Red/Yellow wire from stalk switch Pin 13 to gauge cluster Pin 1 on Plug C27. C27 has two rows of pins, 7 on top with #1 on left, and 11 on the bottom. If ground in that wire, fault is in stalk switch.

One of those two conditions should exist. The only other possibility is the cluster, but let's rule these out first.

Wire diagram below is identical to the one in my paper 1999 4Runner EWD:

Ooh Ooh can I guess too!?

Seriously though this diagnosis is right on. Sort of. If you disconnect the stalk and the lights stay on, you can rule out the cluster because the cluster grounds through the stalk. Still dead on though because if you rule out the relay, it pretty much leaves the stalk, but we do have to verify you aren't grounded somehow.

Of course the short to ground would have to be TWO wires, because the stalk grounds the HL relay too. Isn't this fun?

:snacker:

 

[TheDurk]

Ooh Ooh can I guess too!?

Seriously though this diagnosis is right on. Sort of. If you disconnect the stalk and the lights stay on, you can rule out the cluster because the cluster grounds through the stalk. Still dead on though because if you rule out the relay, it pretty much leaves the stalk, but we do have to verify you aren't grounded somehow.

Of course the short to ground would have to be TWO wires, because the stalk grounds the HL relay too. Isn't this fun?

:snacker:

Yeah, I couldn't totally rule out the cluster because of the possibility of an exogenous ground from inside the cluster taking over...somehow. I was getting a headache trying to figure out how that could happen so I decided to punt and just hope it was one of the other two components and I wouldn't have to worry about it.

Of course, that type of approach usually doesn't work. Murphy's 13th Corollary or something. At least there were no DRL's in 1999 (except Canada). Makes it much easier.

 

[GingerB]

Yeah, I couldn't totally rule out the cluster because of the possibility of an exogenous ground from inside the cluster taking over...somehow. I was getting a headache trying to figure out how that could happen so I decided to punt and just hope it was one of the other two components and I wouldn't have to worry about it.

Of course, that type of approach usually doesn't work. Murphy's 13th Corollary or something. At least there were no DRL's in 1999 (except Canada). Makes it much easier.

What was the issue? Having same problem here.

 

[TheDurk]

What was the issue? Having same problem here.

OP was never heard from again. I just love when I take the effort to help people and they just disappear. He probably sold the truck.

 

[IBallEngineer]

OP was never heard from again. I just love when I take the effort to help people and they just disappear. He probably sold the truck.

Yes very rude!

Why can't I find someone selling their 3rd gen with an electrical problem so I can get it for next to nothing and fix it for next to nothing? Or are the chances of that happening...wait for it...next to nothing?

OK, on the bright side(pun intended), we have a new posting member with the same problem. If he will elaborate and allow us to help him solve it and post the results here we will forever be in his debt, or at least for one day.

:shrug:

 

[GingerB]

Yes very rude!

Why can't I find someone selling their 3rd gen with an electrical problem so I can get it for next to nothing and fix it for next to nothing? Or are the chances of that happening...wait for it...next to nothing?

OK, on the bright side(pun intended), we have a new posting member with the same problem. If he will elaborate and allow us to help him solve it and post the results here we will forever be in his debt, or at least for one day.

:shrug:

I can totally understand people not using forums correctly and returning the favor, or at least giving an update. Came from Subaru community here in MN, and the local forum is very tight-knit.

So, basically the issue right now is the lights stay on after turning the truck off. This is with the switch in either on or off position. When the truck is turned on, the switch does what it's suppose to and turns the lights on and off. It does have the auto turn-off feature, when the lights are left on, ignition turned off, and door is opened, they will automatically turn off.

Some other facts to note:
1) It was raining heavily on Sunday when this happened
2) There is some rust around the windshield that I plan to get taken care of later this year before winter
3) Found the left fog lamp plug had a wire that is broken. I've unplugged it.
4) Horn keeps blowing it's fuse
5) Door open indicator comes on intermittently while driving down the road. I think it's either the drivers door or the left rear passenger door switch. The indicator always turns on like it's suppose to when I open the drivers door (this is the one that triggers the auto-off feature, right?)

Fixes I've looked for and/or tried:
1) Headlight fuses (both were good in the fuse box in the engine bay)
2) Tried to find relay between battery and fender, but nothing there, comparing it to images I've found
3) Gray relay box above the OBD plug under the dash is not there
4) Tried taking fog fuse out, seeing if that could help
5) Removed headlamp relay (red) from fuse box in engine bay, and lights would turn off
6) Inspected underneath the dash, and found nothing out of the ordinary, dry as can be

Taking out both left and right headlamp fuses is my current and easiest way to keep the lights off and save the battery.

I think I'll really like this truck once I get all the gremlins taken care of. Just need some help here.

 

[TheDurk]

OK. Multiple issues like this frequently have a single cause. Is there any evidence of after-market installation, especially an alarm system? Do you have an alarm system?

Just to be sure I understand the symptom set--you can turn the lights off normally with the stalk, but then when you turn the key to off they come back on and stay on. Is that correct?

Do they switch from high to low if you try? Is it always highs or always lows? Is the high beam indicator on when it does this?

That relay you can't find is only on DRL trucks.

I am attaching the 2002 EWD. I've compared it to my paper 1999 EWD and it is the same in all respects.

It would appear that the only single point of failure is the stalk switch. When the truck is off, the heads should have neither ground nor positive voltage. The positive is controlled by the cluster through the relay and the ground is controlled by the stalk. Still, the cluster should be cutting the relay--unless the FLASH setting is becoming activated by a defect in the stalk. I just can't figure how it could work normally with the key on.

Anyway, please answer my questions and I'll think about it some more. And let's see what [MENTION=102597]IBallEngineer[/MENTION] has to say....

 

[IBallEngineer]

Oh boy!

So this is so convoluted, not sure how to start troubleshooting this. For now I'll throw two things out there.
First rule of auto repair is: Interrogate the customer: So yes, please answer the questions, we can't walk up and confirm details ourselves, so you'll have to do that to help us help you.

Second thing, you say you pull the fuses to make sure you don't leave the lights on, so I'm assuming that when you do there is power to these fuses. Can you please confirm there is 12V at the fuse when the headlights should be off, then we can trace the relay function and the cluster function too. This will only address the Power side of the equation, but it's a relatively easy start.

I agree the stalk could have the flash function on all the time, this would keep the Relay active. The ignition circuit should be irrelevant, the only change when the truck is running is voltage. Let's solve this!

:humble:

 

[GingerB]

OK. Multiple issues like this frequently have a single cause. Is there any evidence of after-market installation, especially an alarm system? Do you have an alarm system?

No evidence of aftermarket items at all. OEM alarm system is installed.

Just to be sure I understand the symptom set--you can turn the lights off normally with the stalk, but then when you turn the key to off they come back on and stay on. Is that correct?

Yes.

Do they switch from high to low if you try? Is it always highs or always lows? Is the high beam indicator on when it does this?

High beams switch on and off like normal, and indicator light turns on and off, while the truck is running. It's the low beams that stay on after the ignition is off. Didn't try to turn on high beams with the truck off.

I'm an amateur at best when it comes to electrical. I do have a code reader and meter.

IBallEngineer, I didn't directly measure power at the left and right headlight fuses, but you can definitely see a spark when you plug them in, and the respective headlight comes on.

 

[IBallEngineer]

I'm an amateur at best when it comes to electrical. I do have a code reader and meter.

IBallEngineer, I didn't directly measure power at the left and right headlight fuses, but you can definitely see a spark when you plug them in, and the respective headlight comes on.

OK, so we'll what I think is easiest. Using your meter, check the voltage at the receptacle for the headlight fuses. One will be dead with the fuse out, or should be, and the other will be hot from the relay(even though it shouldn't be).

Write down the voltage at all four positions with the truck off. Then recheck them with the truck running, this could be irrelevant but I want to know what is changing.

Then with the engine off, pull the headlight relay and check the voltage readings again. Sounds like a lot but it will take you longer to put the info in the email then it will to check it.

 

[TXLX1]

I'm having some issue with the headlights on mine, but I think it could be related to one or more faulty door switches. I walked out twice today and the headlights were on, with the switch off. I don't think I locked the vehicle either time.

Does anyone know if 1997 limited had auto-headlamps when vehicle shut off?

I don't currently have an owners manual.

 

[4runner_dreamer]

Why can't I find someone selling their 3rd gen with an electrical problem so I can get it for next to nothing and fix it for next to nothing?
:shrug:

Not to change subjects here, but, I bought my 2000 Runner with 130K for $500 because the gal couldn't figure out why the rear wiper motor, rear defroster, rear window and rear dome light wouldn't work.. Broken wires - they were. Fix it - I did.

 

[GingerB]

OK, so we'll what I think is easiest. Using your meter, check the voltage at the receptacle for the headlight fuses. One will be dead with the fuse out, or should be, and the other will be hot from the relay(even though it shouldn't be).

Write down the voltage at all four positions with the truck off. Then recheck them with the truck running, this could be irrelevant but I want to know what is changing.

Then with the engine off, pull the headlight relay and check the voltage readings again. Sounds like a lot but it will take you longer to put the info in the email then it will to check it.

Lights are now staying off. If it happens again, I'll check those voltages and post again. Sorry for the delay, but it's been kinda hectic lately.

 

[GingerB]

So, the headlight gremlin is back again. I have replaced the relay for them with a NAPA one. The auto-shutoff feature is gone now, but I don't care about that.

Biggest issue now is that the low beams and high beams won't turn on. I can flash the highs manually when pulling back on the stalk. Bulbs are still good.

Other symptoms:
-The low beams and parking lights were flashing when I walked into the garage one day.
-Driving in some rain, felt a couple drops on my left ankle on the 20 minute trip home.
-Horn/hazard fuse would keep blowing. Pulled the junction box out from under the driver side dash and noticed some corrosion on the back where one of the connectors plugs in. Just replaced the whole junction box. Horn and hazards work again, but no change to the headlamp failure.

Am I looking at a failed stalk?

P.S. I have found the culprit for the door open warning light. Rear door sensor is acting up. Going to find a way to disable it. Simply unplugging it behind the rear hatch door card doesn't work.

 

[IBallEngineer]

So, the headlight gremlin is back again. I have replaced the relay for them with a NAPA one. The auto-shutoff feature is gone now, but I don't care about that.

Biggest issue now is that the low beams and high beams won't turn on. I can flash the highs manually when pulling back on the stalk. Bulbs are still good.

Other symptoms:
-The low beams and parking lights were flashing when I walked into the garage one day.
-Driving in some rain, felt a couple drops on my left ankle on the 20 minute trip home.
-Horn/hazard fuse would keep blowing. Pulled the junction box out from under the driver side dash and noticed some corrosion on the back where one of the connectors plugs in. Just replaced the whole junction box. Horn and hazards work again, but no change to the headlamp failure.

Am I looking at a failed stalk?

P.S. I have found the culprit for the door open warning light. Rear door sensor is acting up. Going to find a way to disable it. Simply unplugging it behind the rear hatch door cad doesn't work.

I'm going to try to address your headlight issue. But you have a lot of information, most of it doesn't address any one thing. So if you can please clarify. You say the auto off feature is "gone". Did you disable it? If so, what did you do?

I'm working from a newer EWD, but I think the early models with no DRL's should be similar. The headlights activated by the stalk which does TWO things.

ONE, it ground the headlight relay THROUGH the auto off feature in the combination meter, the relay then sends power to the headlights through the fuses.

TWO it grounds the Low beam filament in the bulb.

The high beams only work if the stalk is in the "on" position, so the relay is grounded and the headlights have power. Moving the stalk forward and back activate the dimmer. In the high mode the Hi beam filament is grounded. But the lamps will only get power if the headlight relay has ground from the stalk, again, THROUGH the auto off feature.

The flash mode operated independently of the stalk switch, when you pull the stalk to flash, ground is applied DIRECTLY to the headlight relay AND the high beam filament.

That leaves several possibilities as to what has failed. I would start with checking to see if the relay is getting ground when you turn on the headlights. If not, you can check connector 1C terminal 6 on the Body ECU. Since the flash works, we know the other connectors for the headlamp relay are good.
Next step if there is no ground, is the combination meter. So it would help to know what you did already.

:suspicious: