Help a brotha out....price negotiation question

[Fortyounces]

hello all,
first time poster here. I have begun the negotiation process with Toy dealers here in South Florida to purchase my first 4Runner.

I'm getting bids for a 05 SR5 4x2 V6 with 17" alloys, roof rack, leather steering wheel and 115v AC port.

Best price to date is $25,200 (with no dealer fees)... sound like a good deal to you guys?

From the research I've done, the MSRP with those options comes in around $29,900 and www.carsdirect.com has a price of about $25,800.

Any input you guys/gals can contribute would be excellent. I am very anxious to get into a new T4R but I don't want to jump the gun if I can milk them for a few hundred more off the bottom line.

Thanks.

 

[Fro-Runner]

Are you talking out the door price? Financing included? If so, 25k sounds good to me! Buy it and don't guzzle too many fortys before driving. Hope I helped a brotha out!

 

[olliebear]

What's the out the door?

Are they trying to sneak in the dealer prep fees, the car detail operations fees, the fluid check and tire air fees, the secretary day appreciation gift fees, the test drive gas and oil check fees, etc?

Then watch out for the extended warranties. They make up their profits there too. When they hit me with the hihg pressure extended warranty, I told them, "What are you telling me that this Toyota is such a POS I need to pay extra to make sure it does not fall apart? I better cancel this deal right now and go see the Honda dealer! Come on dear."

They were not laughing when they crossed out the extended warranty paperwork.

Let's not forget the rust proofing package as if the frames and body were not sheep dipped in hot coating and galvanized at the factory....

Let's not forget the stain protection package that works just as well as a $5.00 bottle of Scotchguard....

So looks to be a good deal, just make sure they don't pork you in the rear as you are intoxicated and unconscious by that new car smell....sort of a date rape drug except it's used in car dealerships....

:bash:

 

[Fortyounces]

$25,200 plus sales tax & tags...so I guess the real out the door price is going to be closer to $26,800.

Think that's still a bit high, no?

my target price was about $500 over invoice (there are about a dozen Toyota dealers within a 3 hour drive of me) so I figure I would work 'em to see how close to invoice I could get em to outbid each other.

I have 2 month's left on my current vehicle lease so I'm in no rush to jump on the first decent offer I get from any of these dealers. I plan on buying the first week of March and then turning in my old car early anyway, but if I have to play the waiting game, I will.

Guess the old...test drive and walk away technique could be put into effect next weekend.

Thanks for the replies here.

 

[RaysMD]

Here's what I did. Find your largest toyota dealer.

Get the invoice pricing from edmunds.com or get the dealer to fax you a copy of the vehicle invoice report.

Now that you've got the actual cost of the vehicle including the options, subtract the rebate from Toyota. Last month it was $1,000.

Here's my example.

2005 Sports Edition V8 4X4 (sunroof, roof spoiler, double decker cargo, floor mats)

$34,506 - Total retail
----------------------
$30,430 - Invoice
-$1,000 - rebate
================
$29,430 (but, I was only able to get $29,500)


After this price, don't pay anything except taxes, title, and registration. No window etching or extended warranties.

 

[Fro-Runner]

Last post was a darn good example. That is just what I did.....except I went to dealer and wrote down the options off the window sticker of the runner I was to buy. I returned home and did the homework. Here is my example.....keep in mine that I bought the 4X4 so my SR5 invoice will be higher than your 4X2 invoice price in this example. Here goes:
Invoice---------$26,435.00
dest. fees---------$545.00
Moonroof, roof
rack, carpet mats,
emerg kit,
17" sport rims---$1600.00
tax,tag, reg------$2365.00
minus
the rebate of-----$750.00
===================
GRAND TOTAL=$30,200.00

I paid them $30,300 out the door. The original state price was 31,500, then down to 31,150 then the absolute lowest that I was stealing this vehicle from them for was 30,800! I left and the dude called me back two days later and we settled for 30,300 with clearcoat and free wheel locks! The sales (steal) man was trying to keep the $750 rebate to split between himself and the stealership. They even said "we have LoJack already installed in your truck and will just add that figure ($1725) in now"! I said you can take it off.....the finance guy was blah...blah...blah; so I just stood up and gathered my things. The dude said we can have it off your truck in about 10 minutes and the deal was done!
I hope this helps.....leave the Fawty in the car please!

 

[Fortyounces]

so what was the bottom line price you guys paid after calculating the acutal invoice costs?

You paid invoice price or did you hold out for under invoice??

Cuz lets face it, even the invoice price includes a profit for the dealership (holdbacks, dealer rebates/incentives, etc). I figure with all the competition in the area I may have the upper hand by pitting these guys' offers against one another.

Do I name names when counter offering one dealer against another? Like do I tell DealerB that "DealerA gave me a bid of $25,200, can you beat that???" or do I just tell them the number and hope that they don't think I'm b.s-ing them.

and fo'runner, I'm gonna bring the 40 with me and crack the salesman over the head with it if he tries to give me the run-around.

I want to get this rig in my driveway the 1st of March and start with the mods.

 

[Fortyounces]

sorry, ignore the first part of my last post, I didn't read your posts thoroughly enough. You did pay invoice (or slightly more).

but let me know if you think I can do better by putting them "heads up" against each other.

 

[RaysMD]

of course, pit the dealers against each other. That's what I did.

 

[Fro-Runner]

Personally speaking forty ounces.....at this time of the year; I would NOT pay any more than $100 dollars above invoice. I paid that in May '04 in sunny southern Calif. (see above post)! This is a slowwww time of year for dealers......just before tax returns start to trickle into households. If you pit 3-4 dealers against one another for a week or two; you could probably get them down to $500 below actual invoice price. If you are buying a SR5 4X2 and you live in Florida (no sales tax state?) ; I'd wouldn't pay no more than $27,500 out the door with a moonroof and $26,800 without the roof. Sport Editions, Limiteds, and SR5 4x4's are going to cost you a lot more than that.

My best advice---Be PATIENT! Do NOT let the stealership know that you are needy of a vehicle, show no remorse to their crying calls to buy today, and weigh all so-called "We'll toss this in for free if you buy TODAY" with great CAUTION. Take a step back....drive to the local fast food place around the corner, think in over for about 30 mins and then return. If you have to think 2,3,4 times before signing some of the paperwork in the finance office; then you probably should have already stepped outside to take a break for some fresh air.

The dealer has to make a few bucks somewhere but not too much off you. Do NOT.....repeat DO NOT let them fizzle your manufactuer rebate back out of you. That is from Toyota and NOT the stealership. They have tricks where they will make it appear as if it is subtracted up here on the form but will then backdoor it into the deal on the lower end of the form. Remember, you can buy the extended warranty ANYTIME up until the standard 3yr/36,000 mile one expires. Thus you can decide 2yrs from now where or not you want the extra coverage when your funds have been mangaged for awhile. Good luck!

 

[mjweber96]

I agree with fo'runner. I plan on purchasing soon also but I won't pay 100 over invoice. I can wait.
fo'runner: Florida is a sales tax state. We just don't pay in State Taxes.

 

[Fortyounces]

thanks for the advice. I know about all the add on's, NOW. I got taken for these when I bought my jetta 3 years ago.

I learned that lesson the hard way. Paying an extra $15 a month for a maintenance plan that only covered an oil change every 5,000 miles.

as mjweber stated, FL is a sales tax state, we just dont have state income taxes like most states do. Thanks to all you tourists..keep visiting Disney and SouthBeach!!! lol

I went back to one of the dealers (via email) with the best offer and he says it's hard to beat and that I should still consider his price ($26,990 vs 25,200) all plus sales tax, title,tag of course. stating that "My deal won't change once you come into the dealership like the other guys will".

So how do I address this matter with the guy bidding $25,200?? do I call him out on him giving me a bait and switch price or just let it go until I go in to talk to him in person and hope that he wan't just giving me a line.

 

[Fro-Runner]

I'd take a strong look at the 25,200 and make sure both vehicles have the same options. The 25,200 bid would still put you in the 27,500 total out the door price. It's kinda hard to totally judge the deal from this end because you haven't listed what options and/or model this vehicle is. Make sure that you are dealing with the fleet department with the online bid and not some salesman pretending. Most large dealerships now have a fleet department. That is the way to go.....don't even deal with a salesman---especially if you are using some of your own cash as a down payment.

 

[Fortyounces]

$25,200 bid is for
'05 SR5 4x2 V6 with 17" alloys, roof rack, leather steering wheel and 115v AC port.

and you're right, with tax, tag, title, etc that would bring me right to that $27,500 number.

According to Edmunds TMV calculations on this vehicle and option set...Invoice is $26,291

so if I add the tax tag, title to the Edmunds invoice price [26291+2300 = $28,500], I get $28,500 which is $1,000 more than my out the door price on the dealers bid (which includes the current $1,000 cash back).

so in reality, I'm getting the car at invoice price plus or minus a few bucks.

Sounds like a winner to me. But I'll continue to work his best bid to other dealers and see if anyone bites.

 

[rando]

I say do some research to find a lot with the truck you want. Walk in, take it for a ride, and then offer them invoice (including dest fee and any other mandatory fees like TDA) - $500 - current rebate. They will insist you raise your offer. Stick with your original offer and let them know you're in a hurry and you'd like to take the truck home now.

I bet they'll take your offer. Let them compute the tax and tags and then you double check it on the purchase contract before you sign anything or pay.

If it doesn't work out, go immediately to the next dealer in your area and offer $100 more. If the first place didn't take your offer, you'll find the bottom price in your area in a matter of hours.

Enjoy the ride!

 

[olliebear]

I don't kiss on the first date.....

Went to sevearl dealers for myself and wife-zilla when she needed a Toyota....when the sales guy gave me his are you buying today" line, I always retort.." "I don't kiss on the first date, you gotta take me out to dinner befoe I put out, know what I mean?" that usually shuts them up real good with a smile.

If you've know the price you want and the dealer gives that crap about not being to meet it, just tell them, here's my phone number. Call me when you get serious.

The Dodge dealer would not come to my price....walked out (bought my 4Runner 2 hours later at the Toy dealer....) the Dodge saleswoman called the mornign after saying they'll meet it. Told her "you had your chance. I bought a Toyota 2 hours after I left your lot. When I came in with all the facts and figures already done and asked if you would meet it, I wasn't playing games. "

The biggest leverage is whether you will commit. Dealesr will drop the price if you will commit, not waffling or waiting.

 

[Fortyounces]

too funny! I don't know if I could say that with a straight face and then seriously sit down and negotiate with the salesman after busting that out.

I've had some good luck in dealing with a couple of the dealers here via email. Best price so far is $23,990 plus tax tag, title (including the $1,000 cash back in price) which would get me out the door for about $26,300.

Edmunds INVOICE price on that vehicle is $25,735 incl dest charges. So add tax to Edmunds invoice (25735+2300=$28,035)
and I'm walking away with a savings of $1735 under Edmunds invoice price.

It sounds too good to be true. I am waiting on the dealer to come back with a firm "out the door" price and if he falls in line with his original quoted price, I'll be there first thing in the morning to put down some $$$$ and lock it in.



'05 SR5 with 17" alloys, leather wrapped steering, and roof rack

 

[Fortyounces]

Out the door for $27,515 on an 05 SR5 with 17" alloys, black roof rack, and leather steering wheel.


Take it, or try and work it more?

Includes the following:

$542 "Toyota Advertising Fee"
$489 "Dealer Transaction Fee"
$560 Destination and Handling Fee

Should I pay the Advertising and transaction fees or are those "back end" fees that pad their pot???

Let me know..would love to close the deal this weekend if this sounds legit.

 

[olliebear]

What is your time and aggravation worth?

I am not one of those guys who will grind down to the nickle. I know some folks think it's fun but I have bette things to do with my time than to spend 4 weeks grinding down 5 dealers. You get heartburn, the salesman get heartburn, and all parties go away feeling like the other was scum.

It sounds like a good price. I'd buy even at a fair price: the dealer has a right to make a fair profit, you have a right to a fair deal.

I could have grounded my sales guy down a few more dollars, but I made an inital offer based on my research, the local supply and demand, how I was treated, etc., finance countered offered and we shook at a fair price. The salesman was very kind nad extremely courtesous. NO mention of even when I was buying. I always try to be courtesous such as asking for pesmisisosn before even getting in the car and when he offered us a test drive, he offered to stay behind. I told him I prefer his comany to explain the amenities in the car while we take it for a spin. When we got back, he said he'd leave us alone for a few minutes so we could think about it. I ran the numbers down a bit and we had a deal. Yes, I could have made a better deal, but I belive in a win/win and everyone leaves happy. When I checked Edmunds, I got it for a couple hundred under the TMV (True Market Value Price). Not great, but a fair price all around.

So wife-zilla and I left happy, he was happy, and fianance was happy....life's too short to get another ulcer to save another 2 bucks.

Yes, I try to turn a potentially confrontational process into a more relaxed give and take. Wife-zilla, like many women confuses being assertive with being a bitch. When we went car shopping for her 2 years ago, I told her to SHUT THE HELL UP. We endd up buying at the same dealership and she was all smiles and ther ewas no heartburn.

I crack a smart ass line about "not kissing on the first date" or "this must be a POS if I have to buy an extended warranty"and we all laugh...but I laugh with a serious tone and only the most idiotic salesguy would miss it...I follow up with soft spoken "this is the price. So are we going to close or not?"

Advertising fees are part of the business and you should not pay for it. Do you pay advertsiing fees at McDonald's? Just ask them that? How about paying advertsisng fees when you buy a Dell PC? It's all part of their operating expense so don't give you any more schit. What the hell is the transaction fee? Never heard of it. Just tell them that. I don't care how you massage it or where you cut it out from. That is the price.

The dealer wanted to charge Wife-zilla a pick up fee because they found the car she wanted at a dealerhip in Monterey, CA, and had to have a driver take a car down and swap and drive it up. Told them that your driver is just a porter on payroll anyway so you're not paying him anymore for doing this. You want the sale, there is no pick up fee.

Just like when I traded in my Mustang for my Tahoe....I had already figured out and estimated the wholesale and retail for my trade in and worked it in my final price for the Tahoe. I told the sales guy, I don't care if you give me $1.00 for my trade in. I really don't. I don't care how you massage it or where you play your games. That is the price. (with one or two more wiggling offers and counter offers so they can feel like they got the best of me...)

I would do the business in person. They love to low ball you to get you in then switch you with extra fees and that there was a mistake or misunderstanding on the price. Go in person and if hte price is right, Close them before they can try their crap on you.
Or walk out as I would not do business with any dealer ship that pulls that crap on me.

No need to get angry or loud....say it softly and carry the big stick--walking out...They'll stop their games and you'll get your price.

 

[RaysMD]

$542 "Toyota Advertising Fee"
$489 "Dealer Transaction Fee"

Don't ever pay anything else except taxes, title, and registration. Destination should be included. All the advertising fees should be paid by the dealer. No window etching, no underbody coating, no dealer installed pinstriping, no dealer installed alarms, etc.

only what's on the sticker from the manufacturer. i.e., vechile inquiry report. They must provide this to you if asked.