Help! Alignment Question

[d0nkeyxpunch]

I just got an alignment done at Firestone and was in a hurry so didn't really look at the specs. I figured they would say something if there are any issues. I'm looking again now and it seems like my caster is off quite a bit. Is this a concern? Should I take it back? The rig drives fine and doesn't pull to one side.

I have a 3" lift kit and fresh 265/75/16 (disregard tire size in pic).

 

[NODNARB01]

All they did was adjust your toe. It should have more caster but may or may not be possible with the lift and stock uca's.


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[pauldub]

Yep, all they adjusted was the toe. I guess they were in a hurry too. I would tend to not track very well with so little caster. I'd take it back or find a better place.

 

[liquidnails]

Lifting is one of the worst things you can do to your truck as far as on-road driveability and handling goes. Without aftermarket UCAs you'll be lucky if you can get your caster within the specified range, luckier if you can keep it there.

But if you think your rig drives fine with 0 caster, then you've got no worries.

0 caster makes for twitchy sensitive steering, and a tendency to wander and require constant steering input.

A good alignment shop was able to get mine to the lower end of spec with a 3 inch lift, but it feels like it's slowly getting worse.

 

[IBallEngineer]

OK, I won't go on my "I hate Firestone" rant again, but they did you a huge disservice, and Caster is just a small part. For me the bigger issue is not pointing out to you that the rear thrust angle is almost .4. Zero would mean the axle is pointed straight ahead, .2 or .1 is acceptable, but 0.4 is quite high. Notice one side of rear toe is extremely positive while the other is extremely negative. My runner has 295K and has .2 to .3 thrust angle, it needs bushings on the rear control arms. Yours probably needs them worst than mine does. I know it's a hassle, but they should be ashamed that they didn't discuss the angles with you, I'd ask for my money back $$. And with only a 3" lift, you should have more Caster than that, it isn't rocket science.

 

[d0nkeyxpunch]

Hmm so I have stock UCA so I guess it's something I need to live with until i upgrade.

Im going to take it back to Firestone tomorrow. Can you guys help me by pointing out what needs to be re-aligned?

 

[Desertwind16v]

Have them try to get the caster as close as they can. Depending on your location in the country it might not even be possible due to corrosion. If that's the case I would get new LCA bushings and cam bolts along with some aftermarket UCAs and another alignment.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Hmm so I have stock UCA so I guess it's something I need to live with until i upgrade.

Im going to take it back to Firestone tomorrow. Can you guys help me by pointing out what needs to be re-aligned?

Yep, another "set the toe let it go" alignment.

You should be able to get close to the lower end of the caster spec (1.9) with a 3" lift and still keep the camber within spec because when you adjust caster you adjust camber also. Just make sure the difference left to right(cross camber/caster) is within .5 degrees.

 

[JayRolla]

Hmm so I have stock UCA so I guess it's something I need to live with until i upgrade.

Im going to take it back to Firestone tomorrow. Can you guys help me by pointing out what needs to be re-aligned?

They should beable to get you 1.2-2.0* caster on stock UCA's. Make sure you toe is 0 - .1 and camber is as close to as zero as possible also.

Like stated above you have some off angles in the rear. Since nothing in the rear is adjustable you probably need all the bushing for rear upper and lower control arms.

 

[phattyduck]

As others have said... they didn't touch camber/caster. Since you have some camber 'available' to work with, they should have been able to get the caster at least 'closer' to spec - and also TOLD YOU what they could or could not get right. Pretty sad.

I'm sure the techs hate it, but I stand right there behind every vehicle I get aligned. So far, I have gotten what I want each time. Of course, I often have requests to have different specs than OEM on most of my cars...

-Charlie

 

[tjaguilar]

Last time I took mine in for an alignment they noted they could not adjust my caster anymore due to over sized tires. Running BFG KO2 265/75/16

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Last time I took mine in for an alignment they noted they could not adjust my caster anymore due to over sized tires. Running BFG KO2 265/75/16

Looks like a Les Schwab print out. They suck so much, it's actually funny.
This is from my rig just 2hrs ago-

That's with 315/70R17 KO2. I wasn't expecting him to be able to pull +3* caster- without going positive on the camber- on stock arms, but he's the man. I had Les Schwab do my '97 TWICE, and they still left me with horrible specs. The first time, it wandered so bad, I looked like I was driving drunk [emoji1361] Had them "fix" it, and they still sent me out the door with specs in the red.

 

[tjaguilar]

Looks like a Les Schwab print out. They suck so much, it's actually funny.
This is from my rig just 2hrs ago-
That's with 315/70R17 KO2. I wasn't expecting him to be able to pull +3* caster- without going positive on the camber- on stock arms, but he's the man. I had Les Schwab do my '97 TWICE, and they still left me with horrible specs. The first time, it wandered so bad, I looked like I was driving drunk [emoji1361] Had them "fix" it, and they still sent me out the door with specs in the red.

Yeah I feel like they crank em out and send you on your way. Ive been wanting to go back to get it fixed but havent had the chance. Im finally going back this Thursday to a different location and see what the outcome is. Ive heard better things about the location Im going to, so we'll see what happens. If they cant get it right I might have to opt in for a different alignment shop overall even if I have lifetime with Firestone.

 

[Unner]

OP, you should be able to get more caster than that, even on stock UCAs. I have stock UCAs and not a full 3" lift, but I can get all my alignment specs within stock limits. Read up on alignment angles, and how they are adjusted. Then go back to firestone, ask to have their best tech work on it. They should have at least one master tech there. When your truck gets pulled into the garage ask to go out on the floor with him and tell him you want the caster absolutely maxed out with the LCA adjusting cams. Have him do this, and then he can go and set the toe afterwards using the tie rods.

I go out there with them every single time and talk with the guy doing my alignment. This helps you get a good alignment and lets them know you aren't some idiot that doesn't know any better when they tell you that everything is good when it obviously isn't. It also helps to know how the adjusters work and what exactly the angles are and what they do, this way you can talk competently to the tech.

Last time I took mine in for an alignment they noted they could not adjust my caster anymore due to over sized tires. Running BFG KO2 265/75/16

This doesn't even make sense. The size of your tires doesn't have any effect on how much caster you can get. In fact more caster will pull your tire further away from the firewall giving you more clearance.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

More good help from [MENTION=116387]Unner[/MENTION] [emoji1360]
If you are up to it, you can adjust your alignment yourself, then have them "dial it in" from there. On my '97 and my '01, I maxed my caster, pulled back to plumb on the camber, then used a tape measure on the tread to adjust toe. Super rough, but both rigs drove great until I was able to get to an alignment shop. 3-4 weeks was when I finally got my '01 in to the shop.
To max caster, you loosen the 22mm adjuster bolts, then use the 19mm hex to adjust. To max caster, you pull the front cams in, and push the rear cams out. These four cams are on your LCA pivot points. You will likely have positive camber, so you will need to push the front cams out until your front tires are perpendicular to the ground. I use a 2' level on the non-bulging(bottom bulges from weight)part of the sidewall. Once you have your camber straight, you can adjust toe. Always adjust both sides equally- that way your steering wheel will remain straight.
Both sides are RH threaded TREs. Loosen jam nut, hold boot from twisting, and adjust the ITRE.
I measure from a constant part of the sidewall, to a constant part of the tread on the opposite tire. Compare front to back measurements, and adjust as needed.
It might not be worth it to you, but it's worked well for me in the past. You can see the "initial" specs on my alignment sheet above- that was without even using a level to try to get camber close. I just adjusted the rears all the way out, fronts all the way in- then dialed them back about 1/4 turn, and tightened it down. Adjusted toe. Done.

 

[tjaguilar]

This doesn't even make sense. The size of your tires doesn't have any effect on how much caster you can get. In fact more caster will pull your tire further away from the firewall giving you more clearance.

Exactly, I didnt have time to have them fix it and argue with them. I gave them the confused look when they told me that. I will make sure to go over it with them when I go in on Thursday.

 

[d0nkeyxpunch]

UPDATE: Took it back to another Firestone location and the tech said the initial alignment wasn't done correctly. The alignment was not what was specified on the spec sheet above! da fuq?? So the good news they fixed it, but the bad news is they still can't get caster to specified range. They said not to worry since it does not effect tire wear whatsoever and both sides are almost equal amount of degrees ( -0.2 and -0.1) and not lopsided.

I think I will leave it as is then go back few weeks from now. I am heading out to Arizona and Utah (Moab) this weekend and tired of dealing with this BS for now.

 

[fordracing19]

I hate getting cars aligned since I cant do my own anymore. Sure isnt worth going back into the wrench turning biz though. I just wasted $256 on my Benz for a set to and let'er go. Rear tires had steel from neg camber at 20k mile and they would not take any camber out.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Looks like a Les Schwab print out. They suck so much, it's actually funny.
This is from my rig just 2hrs ago-

That's with 315/70R17 KO2. I wasn't expecting him to be able to pull +3* caster- without going positive on the camber- on stock arms, but he's the man. I had Les Schwab do my '97 TWICE, and they still left me with horrible specs. The first time, it wandered so bad, I looked like I was driving drunk [emoji1361] Had them "fix" it, and they still sent me out the door with specs in the red.

Notice your vehicle only had a .2 thrust angle. And yours was aligned using a Snapon/John Bean aligner, that other one was done with equipment from St. Louis. :hunter:

 

[d0nkeyxpunch]

What my frustration is aren't these people CERTIFIED technicians that SHOULD know WTF to do without me having to assist them on how to do their jobs? Like they are the pros and they should know everything without me (alignment n00b) telling them. Very frustrating. It seems like people in these large chains don't have a specialist on certain tasks...