Help: Assistance with proper alignment after lift.

[Ride_Red]

So I just swapped out my 890 rear coils with a set of 8 wraps (ahhh….much better), but wait now my steering wanders! I had an alignment done right after and it’s not any better (stock settings). When I had the 890s on, it was noticeable, but not too bad. Now the truck wanders more and pulls on very rutted roads.
I’ve been reading that I need to have more caster 3+ while maintaining good camber???? Anyway, can anyone tell me what I need to tell them when I go back? What can I get away with…..

~Stock UCA’s
~Sequoia Rims
~1.25 Spydertrax spacers
~285/70/17 AT’s
~Front: 5100s w/stock springs on third notch with ¼ spacer
~Rear: 5125 w/LX450 8 wraps

Roughly 3" lift up front and 5" in the rear.


What caster/camber/etc… should I be at?

Caster setting: ??
Camber setting: ??
Toe: ??




This is where I am at now

Before w/890s

After w/LX450 8 Wraps

 

[revenantdead]

You need either a track bar relocator bracket, or an adjustable track bar. When you installed the taller coils in the rear it shifted the axle to the passenger side.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Those wheels look SIC!

Painted or powder-coated?

 

[mikebontoft]

your caster is well out of spec. This is why it feels like driving a shopping cart.

To give you a good visual, think of a motorcycle. think of where the handlebars are and where the front wheel is. the steering fork connects those two parts. Since the wheel is ahead of the handlebars, it is more stable. This is positive caster. if that wheel manages to find its way behind the handlebars... that's a negative thing. lol

But really, let's apply it to your truck. the bottom of the strut is actually just a bit more towards the rear than the top is. It's literally like a shopping cart with its casters. Ever seen one of those at speed? not very stable.

I suspect there might not be enough adjustment in it though. Not sure what you guys have for adjustable strut mounts etc, but You will probably have to slot the tower.

 

[chuck norris]

your caster is well out of spec. This is why it feels like driving a shopping cart.

To give you a good visual, think of a motorcycle. think of where the handlebars are and where the front wheel is. the steering fork connects those two parts. Since the wheel is ahead of the handlebars, it is more stable. This is positive caster. if that wheel manages to find its way behind the handlebars... that's a negative thing. lol

But really, let's apply it to your truck. the bottom of the strut is actually just a bit more towards the rear than the top is. It's literally like a shopping cart with its casters. Ever seen one of those at speed? not very stable.

Yep!

The new stinkbug stance of the 4runner is killing your Caster spec, and that isn't adjustable without going to custom upper control arms. The ass end looks to be about 2" taller which would take a bit over 1 degree out of your caster. You'll either have to learn to live with the twitchy steering, lower the rear end, raise the front end, or get some custom upper control arms to adjust the caster.

Also, raising the rear end lost some of your original camber and gained some toe-in. But this can be mostly adjusted for with the LCA cams and the tie rods.

 

[Ride_Red]

Yep!

The new stinkbug stance of the 4runner is killing your Caster spec, and that isn't adjustable without going to custom upper control arms. The ass end looks to be about 2" taller which would take a bit over 1 degree out of your caster. You'll either have to learn to live with the twitchy steering, lower the rear end, raise the front end, or get some custom upper control arms to adjust the caster.

Also, raising the rear end lost some of your original camber and gained some toe-in. But this can be mostly adjusted for with the LCA cams and the tie rods.

So, you guys mean to tell me there is nothing I can do to adjust the set-up I have now w/o getting aftermartket UCA's or going back to the 890s? Man either I'm missing something but I know there are a lot of guys on here running 8+ wraps and I didn't see them all w/aftermarket UCA's.

My caster is not adjustable? I thought I saw that I could get at most 2+ out of them???

What about "revenantdead" comment about the Pan Hard bracket? Will that fix some of the problem?

 

[Ride_Red]

Those wheels look SIC!

Painted or powder-coated?

Plasti-dip!:thumb3:

 

[mikebontoft]

I didn't say that. I don't know where your eccentrics are set at and if they're already at the maximum adjustment. You could probably get enough caster by slotting the strut mounting holes. Then again, it looks pretty tight.

I suspect the alignment tech adjusted it to have camber where it should be, either because there's no more adjustment or because all he knows is that camber is a tire wearing angle and caster is not.

Also, sure... plenty of people can run stuff "without trouble." Maybe they don't say anything about it, or think that's just how it is when you lift a truck and there's nothing to be done about it.


as for the panhard drop... you're probably dog-tracking. It doesn't look good and it does stay shifted to the side.

edit: yeah, slotting the strut won't do anything. sorry. I've never examined the 3rd gen/taco strut setup so I had to look up a picture.

 

[Ride_Red]

I didn't say that. I don't know where your eccentrics are set at and if they're already at the maximum adjustment. You could probably get enough caster by slotting the strut mounting holes. Then again, it looks pretty tight.

I suspect the alignment tech adjusted it to have camber where it should be, either because there's no more adjustment or because all he knows is that camber is a tire wearing angle and caster is not.

Also, sure... plenty of people can run stuff "without trouble." Maybe they don't say anything about it, or think that's just how it is when you lift a truck and there's nothing to be done about it.


as for the panhard drop... you're probably dog-tracking. It doesn't look good and it does stay shifted to the side.

What is an eccentric?

The report did say, "the front rear eccentric is stuck has limited movement, so set crosses to zero. Replace that eccentric to get alignment fullt into spec".

NTB did the alignment and I was told they only know how to get it to OEM "spec". So I gues that's why I am asking what I need to tell them the next time I go in. Once I figure out and fix the "eccentric".

Thanks mikebontoft!

 

[mikebontoft]

So essentially all they know is how to follow the on-screen instructions.... sad, but all too common. I'd love to quiz one of these guys.

You can google "eccentric cam" to probably get a better visual on it, but it's essentially a bolt with a big bump in the middle. Its pretty much a camshaft with a single lobe. What you do is loosen the nut and rotate the eccentric bolt. As you turn the bolt, the lobe pushes the control arm out or in which will adjust caster and camber. there is one at each lower control arm bushing, and adjusting each one will affect how those angles work. You have to find the right combo.

They make eccentrics with larger lobes as well. Just like an aggresive camshaft, it will "push" further. An adjustable upper control arm will allow for even more adjustment.

 

[cj80cruiser]

I didn't say that. I don't know where your eccentrics are set at and if they're already at the maximum adjustment. You could probably get enough caster by slotting the strut mounting holes. Then again, it looks pretty tight.

I suspect the alignment tech adjusted it to have camber where it should be, either because there's no more adjustment or because all he knows is that camber is a tire wearing angle and caster is not.

Also, sure... plenty of people can run stuff "without trouble." Maybe they don't say anything about it, or think that's just how it is when you lift a truck and there's nothing to be done about it.


as for the panhard drop... you're probably dog-tracking. It doesn't look good and it does stay shifted to the side.

edit: yeah, slotting the strut won't do anything. sorry. I've never examined the 3rd gen/taco strut setup so I had to look up a picture.

I'm glad you corrected that. You had me scratching my head trying to figure out how that affected alignment. Also didn't realize you have a 2nd gen until that post.

My truck has a slight wander with my Light Racing control arms. They are adjustable but I set them up like everyone else. I could get this fixed but I'd be paying for another alignment.

 

[mikebontoft]

I'm glad you corrected that. You had me scratching my head trying to figure out how that affected alignment. Also didn't realize you have a 2nd gen until that post.

My truck has a slight wander with my Light Racing control arms. They are adjustable but I set them up like everyone else. I could get this fixed but I'd be paying for another alignment.

Yeah, if the strut mount were the upper pivot point of the suspension, then it would have an effect on it. I've never really looked at the third gen and kind of assumed for a minute that having a steering rack and struts, they did away with the UCAs.

If the car is in front of me, I don't make that mistake. lol

 

[chuck norris]

So, you guys mean to tell me there is nothing I can do to adjust the set-up I have now w/o getting aftermartket UCA's or going back to the 890s? Man either I'm missing something but I know there are a lot of guys on here running 8+ wraps and I didn't see them all w/aftermarket UCA's.

My caster is not adjustable? I thought I saw that I could get at most 2+ out of them???

What about "revenantdead" comment about the Pan Hard bracket? Will that fix some of the problem?

There are many people running their rear end at this height. It has nothing to do with the specific springs, and more with the overall height of the rear suspension compared to your front suspension.

Anyone running a similar stance to your truck (tall rear, slightly lifted front) will have the same caster issue that you're having.

Like I said, if you want to fix the caster you'll need to raise the front suspension, lower the rear, or get creative with custom control arms.

Also, the cross measurements are off because you need to deal with the panhard bar too now that the rear end is very tall, either by an adjustable panhard bar or a drop bracket. Right now the rear axle is shifted over to the passenger side.

The suspension on 3rd Gens don't handle very much lift while being able to retain stock feeling geometry. The front a-arms/halfshafts are short and the rear links are short, causing lots of angle increase and geometry changes when lifted. Personally, I wouldn't go with much more than 2" front and rear on a daily driver. And if I was building a wheeler with taller suspension, I wouldn't use the stock suspension links/arms anyway.

 

[Ride_Red]

Is there anything I can do (for now) until I get new UCA's and a Panhard?

I gues this goes back to my orginal question. Can I go back to NTB and guide them to getting the best out of what I currently have? I'll prob order a panhard today (I know I will need that regardless of the 890s or 8 wraps).

I have a 3 yr aligbnment deal, so I can go back as many times as I want.

Thanks!

 

[chuck norris]

I think half of this problem is that you're going to NTB. I'd recommend a shop that knows how to actually work with modified rigs, not just read the alignment screen and do exactly what it says.

And as for UCAs, I know Light Racing makes arms for 4th gen 4runners that have caster adjustment but I'm not sure what's out there for 3rd gens.

 

[cj80cruiser]

I think half of this problem is that you're going to NTB. I'd recommend a shop that knows how to actually work with modified rigs, not just read the alignment screen and do exactly what it says.

And as for UCAs, I know Light Racing makes arms for 4th gen 4runners that have caster adjustment but I'm not sure what's out there for 3rd gens.

The Light Racing UCA for the 3rd gen have that adjustment as well.

 

[chuck norris]

The Light Racing UCA for the 3rd gen have that adjustment as well.

Not sure how I missed these...

Light Racing Control Arms from Wheeler's Off-Road

OP- get some of these and something to correct your panhard bar, then go to an alignment shop who knows what they're doing. :banana: