HELP!! Is my transmission done!

[4Running335i]

As a former nuclear plant operator and now natural gas plant operator, I use sights/sounds/numbers as well as given alarms/codes to diagnose issues. I do a lot of my own car repair work with the help of youtube and forums like these. Reading through this post is exactly why I started buying tools and learning shit myself. While a head gasket may be a little out of my league, I'd rather have the knowledge to diagnose that at home with a simple tool and pulling a few plugs than relying on a business that makes money off of car owners ignorance. My 4runner is the only car I've owned in the last 10 years for more than a year and its my baby. I'm still waiting to get my damn DT headers installed after buying them 2 years ago....

 

[zonianbrat]

This is a crappy situation. I know you want them to fix it but the question is will they. It also sucks you are leaving the country otherwise I'd say get it home via a tow or whatever then start diagnosing yourself. If the reservoir was really low then they didn't add fluid and burp it after the new radiator install which would be their fault. I do believe you when you say it was full. I think if it sucked that much coolant into the cylinder you would immediately notice white smoke.

 

[4by4runr]

This is a crappy situation. I know you want them to fix it but the question is will they. It also sucks you are leaving the country otherwise I'd say get it home via a tow or whatever then start diagnosing yourself. If the reservoir was really low then they didn't add fluid and burp it after the new radiator install which would be their fault. I do believe you when you say it was full. I think if it sucked that much coolant into the cylinder you would immediately notice white smoke.

I second this and raise it. If they didn't burp the system, that can and will cause it to overheat, thus bad head gasket. I'm not saying that is what is wrong but as ammo if they are saying it's a bhg, it's on them. You need to talk to the general manager, these service writers are just sales people, most of them don't know dick. As far as the trans goes you need to have them perform a fluid level check with you there - it should have been done when you first dropped it off to confirm if it was low when you arrived. They could have added it since you dropped it off to hide their fault. The last time I got the oil in my wife's Prius was the last time I'll go to a dealer. The oil had obviously not been changed and they proceeded to argue with me about its color.

What's the difference between a service writer and a used car salesman? Answer: how they rip you off.

 

[99Runnr]

I second this and raise it. If they didn't burp the system, that can and will cause it to overheat, thus bad head gasket. I'm not saying that is what is wrong but as ammo if they are saying it's a bhg, it's on them. You need to talk to the general manager, these service writers are just sales people, most of them don't know dick. As far as the trans goes you need to have them perform a fluid level check with you there - it should have been done when you first dropped it off to confirm if it was low when you arrived. They could have added it since you dropped it off to hide their fault. The last time I got the oil in my wife's Prius was the last time I'll go to a dealer. The oil had obviously not been changed and they proceeded to argue with me about its color.

What's the difference between a service writer and a used car salesman? Answer: how they rip you off.

Exactly, I feel like he lost some ability to defend himself by them picking it up so hastily. Had he kept it over the weekend let's say, we could have talked him through things.

From the initial description, I suspected transmission, given the word's "slipping". Also, lower gears and less throttle to limp it home were linked to low fluid in my mind. Having just done a trans service, I know it's easily overlooked as there is no dipstick.

Now that the head gasket is or isn't a culprit, could someone really have messed up both? The answer is yes, but they'd have had to burp the system improperly or not at all. You claimed the overflow bottle was at an adequate level. So many things to check or possible causes.

Head gasket "slowly leaking" would have caused you issues on a long road trip undoubtedly if it was there all along. Your oil would be trash, low on coolant, ect. Can I ask, what made you replace the radiator and water pump to begin with? You just did it as preventative maintenance? Was this noted anywhere verbally or (helpful if so) on service papers?

 

[leftyguns21]

Exactly, I feel like he lost some ability to defend himself by them picking it up so hastily. Had he kept it over the weekend let's say, we could have talked him through things.

From the initial description, I suspected transmission, given the word's "slipping". Also, lower gears and less throttle to limp it home were linked to low fluid in my mind. Having just done a trans service, I know it's easily overlooked as there is no dipstick.

Now that the head gasket is or isn't a culprit, could someone really have messed up both? The answer is yes, but they'd have had to burp the system improperly or not at all. You claimed the overflow bottle was at an adequate level. So many things to check or possible causes.

Head gasket "slowly leaking" would have caused you issues on a long road trip undoubtedly if it was there all along. Your oil would be trash, low on coolant, ect. Can I ask, what made you replace the radiator and water pump to begin with? You just did it as preventative maintenance? Was this noted anywhere verbally or (helpful if so) on service papers?

i wanted to get my car fixed with the quickness so i could have it back and get my stuff done this weekend. i know more car inside and out. i looked it completely over before they took it. oil dipstick came out super clean. reservoir tank was between the two lines. not a drop of fluid any where else. it has not over heated ever, no burning smells. no smoke. previous to them touching it. no rough idle. no gearing issues. no acceleration issues.

i replaced the radiator cause it had a small leak. very small. seems pretty common on these to leak from bottom drivers side corner. i was only topping off the reservoir once a month at most. again, never had heating issues. i wasn't going to have them do it but figured while i was there for the CV just get it all done, now i am regretting it. the water pump was replaced cause they found a crack. probably should have gotten a 2nd opinion on this. i have used this dealership quite a few times and this was the first time they ever 'found' another issue, knowing it was the original i just agreed to it.

[MENTION=97848]4by4runr[/MENTION] bet your a$$ i will be talking to the manager tomorrow. this is becoming a huge hassle. i am not one to back down or be taken advantage of. i worked at a car dealership service dept in HS, i know how they operate.

 

[Seymore Butts]

Since you're in the Denver area, I think your best bet is to have it towed to a place called Automotive MDs. They do a lot of mechanical detective work for the Tom Martino consumer advocacy show.

If AMDs say the dealer caused the failure, then you'll probably stand a great chance of enlisting Martino's help in your fight with the dealer. If they say it was just a coincidence, then you'll at least know you didn't get screwed.

BTW, I don't know why some posters here think that a quick tow truck response time somehow indicates dealer fault. Calling a wrecker to get your 4R, if anything, is a sign of good service. "Hasty"? That's how tow trucks operate - hasty, or else someone else gets the call and the tow fee. Unless there's a storm or some calamity, during business hours, you'll usually get one in 30-60 minutes here in the city.

 

[99Runnr]

BTW, I don't know why some posters here think that a quick tow truck response time somehow indicates dealer fault. Calling a wrecker to get your 4R, if anything, is a sign of good service. "Hasty"? That's how tow trucks operate - hasty, or else someone else gets the call and the tow fee. Unless there's a storm or some calamity, during business hours, you'll usually get one in 30-60 minutes here in the city.

Cause it costs money to tow a car. If anything is true, dealers don't like losing money, so if someone calls and says they may be at fault for a service performed, as he is seeing here, quick to get your cash but not concise answers, they do not just throw a tow rig your way free of charge. The tow truck company is trying to make their money just like the dealership, of course they go get the car quickly. The separate business response time is completely beside the point of why it was called to begin with.

OP- I am not trying to say you don't know your vehicle, just trying to get a better idea as to why the coolant system was serviced initially. I think you saw that, an hopefully that doesn't come back to bite you. If they visually saw a coolant leak before and replaced the radiator and water pump consequently, they could try saying a failing WP and coolant leak had been the problematic part of a failed head gasket. Tomorrow will tell right, I hope it works out in your favor one way or another.

 

[Atlanta_man]

There's lots of service and reliability stats on this transmission.
Failures are rare. Matched up with a service visit is damning.

 

[leftyguns21]

ah the plot thickens. they called me this morning to tell me that it is still mis-firing and thats why i am having issues. he asked "did you pressure wash your engine cause there is water in the cylinders"
after getting it serviced he made multiple efforts to let me know they cleaned the engine and underneath. i told him you guys are the ones who cleaned it after it was serviced....i could hear the "oh fuh" in his voice. he then put me on hold for 15mins. then came back to tell me "we are working on getting it fixed"

question, water is bad for the engine. how bad? what are my next steps?

 

[ZiaMan]

ah the plot thickens. they called me this morning to tell me that it is still mis-firing and thats why i am having issues. he asked "did you pressure wash your engine cause there is water in the cylinders"
after getting it serviced he made multiple efforts to let me know they cleaned the engine and underneath. i told him you guys are the ones who cleaned it after it was serviced....i could hear the "oh fuh" in his voice. he then put me on hold for 15mins. then came back to tell me "we are working on getting it fixed"

question, water is bad for the engine. how bad? what are my next steps?

I know you are leaving the country tomorrow but at this point I would find a lawyer in case things go sideways. At this point it is the best way to protect yourself as you wont be able to go to the dealership. A lawyer might cost a few hundred but the alternative is now you are looking at an engine & tranny somehow??

You need to think about the long game when you get back, rental costs, lost value, what warranty you will get on your truck if anything else pops up. Do you think you can handle all of that and be impartial about your one and only? many of us would not be able to.

PS - water is bad for the engine as it is a) not compressible so can bend rods and other bad things if in the cylinder and b) does not lubricate

 

[leftyguns21]

now hes turning the blame on me. he is trying to tell me the coil pack on 6 was loose thats why water got in it during the pressure wash. absolutely not. if it was loose the car would have been running bad whole time. i have cleaned my engine multiple times using degreaser and low water pressure. i changed the plugs 25,000 miles ago. i pushed back on them saying the pressure washer knocked it loose (baffles me a dealership would even be using a pressure washer on an engine, and even touching an area not being worked on)

once he talks to his manager i am going to wait and decide what to do

 

[Drunner97]

now hes turning the blame on me. he is trying to tell me the coil pack on 6 was loose thats why water got in it during the pressure wash. absolutely not. if it was loose the car would have been running bad whole time. i have cleaned my engine multiple times using degreaser and low water pressure. i changed the plugs 25,000 miles ago. i pushed back on them saying the pressure washer knocked it loose (baffles me a dealership would even be using a pressure washer on an engine, and even touching an area not being worked on)

once he talks to his manager i am going to wait and decide what to do

You need to stop talking to the Peon and start talking directly with management.

 

[Drunner97]

And I would love to know how water got past the boot AND the spark plug to get into the cylinder from a pressure washer unless they literally had the nozzle on full blast at the spark plug hole. There would still be threads and washers for the water to get past even if the boot was "loose"

 

[leftyguns21]

they are now covering everything and going to get it all fixed up.
not sure what all is involved with getting it fixed or how can i confirm it was fixed correctly?
i asked how will i be covered vs long term damage from water getting in, he claims the mechanic will get engine all fixed up and diagnosed (yeah like how they diagnosed a bad head gasket) i doubt a ton of water got in but obviously enough water to do damage. does water eventually work itself out of the system and not give long term effects?

i think i will have them keep my car all week so they dont rush it today.

 

[Legender]

This is not unusual. I had the same thing happen on my Mom's LS400. It was a 95 model and I did a pressure wash and clean and it ran crappy after that. Somehow I got water past the boot and into the tube and caused the plug to short out and not fire in the cylinder. Using an air hose I blew all the water out and dried it out and was fine after that. Since that time I'm very careful when washing any engine...
Glad they found the problem. Once they clean the water out, it should operate fine as the short is gone. Water should only be sitting in the tube cylinder and not bypassing the spark plug and into the actual cylinder.
Obviously they did not check this before and were just making things up..
This is the last time I'd be using this stealership, if it was me.

 

[BrianSD_42]

i dont have the proper tool for pulling codes sadly. or a way to get to an auto zone now to borrow one.

Toyota is sending a tow truck tomorrow to pick it up. its up to them to figure out whats wrong. it has to be something they did or the strangest coincidence.

Amazon Prime could get you a $20 Bluetooth OBDII reader same day delivery. The app is free and you could read the codes.

The dealer is expensive and they won't tell you the codes unless you ask.

 

[djkurious]

It's not misfiring. They will just top off the transmission fluid (like they should have done in the first place) and send you on your way.

 

[leftyguns21]

[MENTION=86859]djkurious[/MENTION] i kind of agree. ive had some pretty crappy cars in the past with bad plugs and wires. they drove rough and idle was not smooth. up until Thursday when check engine light finally kicked on the idle was smooth. it accelerates smooth too. i would just feel that little slip every now and then. all of their diagnoses from the now two different mechanics/advisors have been pretty different.

they just left me a message saying "everything is installed and now doing a test drive" what do they need to install if its a water issue?

 

[Legender]

Based on his first post description:
"it was a weird idle, not rough like bad plugs but it was vibrating."

I'm not aware of any transmission problem what would impact engine idle, if his description was with the transmission in either park or neutral.

I think it was a bit more than just low on fluid, though grant you, I believe it was a low fluid condition also.

 

[leftyguns21]

Based on his first post description:
"it was a weird idle, not rough like bad plugs but it was vibrating.".

i experienced this just the one time, the day they took it back. the Mon-Wed i didn't have any idle issues.

i am hoping its not two issues. the water in the plug that they 'found' and the low tranny fluid explaining the symptoms i had.