Help me... 4wd confusion

[fxoffroad]

I'm sure what I'm about to say has already been addressed - so if anyone can point me in the right direction, it'd be greatly appreciated.

I am trying to decide between a 2010 SR5 or 2010 Limited. My "better-half" will be driving this vehicle to work (about 20miles) on "snow days" here in Colorado. I want to select the easiest 4wd system. Our 4Runner will also get extensive use off-road.

As you can imagine, here in Colorado you can go from dry pavement to snow covered roads/highways in a matter of miles and back and forth. I don't' want the other driver to worry about shifting in and out of 4H as the road conditions change.

A 4runner owner and salesman told me this weekend, that I could get an SR5 and put in 4H and drive on dry pavement. I test drove the SR5 on dry pavement and it was fine, except for U-turns. On Edmunds I'm reading the opposite... that I can't (no way, no how) drive the SR5 in 4H.

What's the truth? Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

 

[ssmathis]

Don't believe anything the sales people tell you. The 4x4 system in the SR5 and the TE are the same and are part-time only. You should not drive with them in 4Hi on dry pavement. The Limited is full-time 4WD and you have no worries about it. If you lock the center differential on the Limited then it will perform the same as the SR5. Now of course the 17" wheels on the SR5 will be better offroad than the 20" wheels.

Scott

 

[CJ3Flyr]

You want a Limited (or an '09). I agree with ssmathis.

 

[harper7]

The Truth is definitely debateable on part time 4x4 do's and don't and not sure if there even is such a thing.Ask 50 people and get 50 different answers.If you don't make sharp turns,like a u-turn,pulling into a parking space and such on dry pavement you will be fine.

The funny thing is ,I don't think Toyota's engineers or tech writers or whoever wrote the manual have a clue either. In the manual it there is a notice for full time 4WD Drive that reads"To prevent damage to the center differential-For normal driving on dry and hard surface roads, unlock the center differential.".Which I personally think is a wrong statement and they got it mixed up with part time. It doesn't mention anything about driving on dry roads in part time.:shrugid they get the truth mixed up or do they know it?.:shrug:

Bottom line in my opinion is if you can afford the Limited with full time,go with for it as your wife can put it in H4L when the roads are snow covered and dry mixed and just forget about it.

 

[M1911]

I am trying to decide between a 2010 SR5 or 2010 Limited. My "better-half" will be driving this vehicle to work (about 20miles) on "snow days" here in Colorado. I want to select the easiest 4wd system.

You want the Limited.

Our 4Runner will also get extensive use off-road.

Limited will work fine there, but you might want to think about exchanging the Limited's 20" wheels for 17" wheels -- find someone with an SR5 who wants the 20" wheels. The 17" wheels have a taller sidewall, so they better protect the wheels, and you will have a larger choice of offroad tires (and they will be cheaper, too).

As you can imagine, here in Colorado you can go from dry pavement to snow covered roads/highways in a matter of miles and back and forth. I don't' want the other driver to worry about shifting in and out of 4H as the road conditions change.

That is what the Torsen center diff is for on the Limited.

A 4runner owner and salesman told me this weekend, that I could get an SR5 and put in 4H and drive on dry pavement. I test drove the SR5 on dry pavement and it was fine, except for U-turns. On Edmunds I'm reading the opposite... that I can't (no way, no how) drive the SR5 in 4H.

The salesman is an idiot. No surprise there. You should not use a part-time 4WD system on dry pavement. The SR5 and Trail Edition have a part-time 4WD system. The Limited has a Torsen center diff that is designed to work on dry pavement. You want the Limited.

What's the truth? Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

The truth is that you want the Limited.

 

[snhrph]

Last week, while waiting for my 07 to be serviced, I had a chance to test-drive 2010 SR5. While my overall impression was "good", I felt like the center diff was locked when making a turn in the parking lot in 4Hi. When I asked a salesman about, I got a blank stare and a shrug.

From my experience, and from revewing the brochure, I would NOT drive the 5th Gen SR5 in 4Hi on a dry road. (I was VERY surprised that Toyota took away the "full-time" 4WD from SR5 and TE in the 5th Gen).

So I agree with ssmathis and CJ3Flyr that your options are either a 2010 Limited or ANY trim of the 4th generation 4Runner.

 

[adoihcj]

We have an SR5 and my wife uses it during the day to drive our kids to the bus stop and to preschool. She has not placed it in 4WD Hi yet - even in the snow - because she's nervous. If I'm in the car with her, she will do it. Of course, I have no problem switching in and out of 4WD Hi on the fly, but your wife is probably not going to like it. In your situation, I would recommend the Limited.

However, if I was the only driver of the SR5, I would choose the SR5 again. Why, because I can control when and where to use 4WD. I also know what it's like to have a full-time 4WD system. If your tires are uneven - or as someone mentioned on the forum - if you need to replace a tire, you'll likely need to replace all 4 tires because the new one will create an uneven ride which will cause the system to go in and out of 4WD on it's own.

 

[M1911]

If your tires are uneven - or as someone mentioned on the forum - if you need to replace a tire, you'll likely need to replace all 4 tires because the new one will create an uneven ride which will cause the system to go in and out of 4WD on it's own.

Huh? The Limited can't go "out of 4WD on it's own." It is always in 4WD.

 

[Uneek]

For the OP, to make it super simple for your wife, get the Limited. You don't need to lock the diff between varying road surfaces from snow covered or dry pavement.

 

[Uneek]

The Truth is definitely debateable on part time 4x4 do's and don't and not sure if there even is such a thing.Ask 50 people and get 50 different answers.If you don't make sharp turns,like a u-turn,pulling into a parking space and such on dry pavement you will be fine.

I disagree. I think you will only get two answers: 1) folks that don't understand a part time system and saying whatever they believe is ok or 2) folks that do understand what a part time 4WD system is telling you the following. The majority will agree a part time 4WD system should not be operated on a high traction surface. You probably can turn the steering wheel a very tiny bit while on pavement, but the axles will bind if the turn is more than a slight curve. Without a center differential, the front and rear axles cannot turn at different speeds during a turn.

The funny thing is ,I don't think Toyota's engineers or tech writers or whoever wrote the manual have a clue either. In the manual it there is a notice for full time 4WD Drive that reads"To prevent damage to the center differential-For normal driving on dry and hard surface roads, unlock the center differential.".Which I personally think is a wrong statement and they got it mixed up with part time. It doesn't mention anything about driving on dry roads in part time.:shrugid they get the truth mixed up or do they know it?.:shrug:

They have it correct by "To prevent damage to the center differential-For normal driving on dry and hard surface roads, unlock the center differential." Only the Limited has a center diff lock because it is a full time 4WD system. The presence of a center differential makes a vehicle an AWD or full time 4WD. (4WD rather than AWD, because 4WD vehicles have low range gearing in their transfer case.) Locking the center diff in a full time 4WD makes it behave exactly the same as a part time 4WD system, resulting in binding on high traction surfaces.

Bottom line in my opinion is if you can afford the Limited with full time,go with for it as your wife can put it in H4L when the roads are snow covered and dry mixed and just forget about it.

:iagree:

 

[PlanetAlaska-]

In the manual it there is a notice for full time 4WD Drive that reads"To prevent damage to the center differential-For normal driving on dry and hard surface roads, unlock the center differential.".Which I personally think is a wrong statement and they got it mixed up with part time.

No I think this is a correct statement in the manual. You need to unlock the center diff on dry roads (this is the default setting). By locking the center diff, the front and rear wheels will turn at the same speed, which is bad when you make a turn on dry roads.

 

[Vanuatoo]

I hope toyota will introduce multi-mode again.
I would talk to that stupid person who made the decision to eliminate multi-mode.

As for the situation I don't think it's hard to remember for anyone how to operate part-time 4wd in the part-time snow road.

Just keep your steering straight, drive below the limit and just switch to 4wd when you see the snow or ice and when on dry do the opposite while keeping steering straight and be in the allowable limit.

The only downside is that sometimes the road is not evenly covered with snow.
your left wheels may be on the dry tarmac and the right wheels on the snow.

Will 4wd use damage the transmission in this situation?

 

[adoihcj]

Huh? The Limited can't go "out of 4WD on it's own." It is always in 4WD.

I'm no expert by any means and I used the wrong terminology - didn't mean to say "go out of 4WD." What I was referring to is when a tire is uneven, it can tell the system to place more power into another wheel if it thinks a wheel is slipping. Maybe it doesn't occur in the Limited, but my '03 Ford Explorer Advance Trac system would do this on dry pavement and it was extremely annoying. I even replaced all the tires so they would be even all around and it still happened.

 

[M1911]

I'm no expert by any means and I used the wrong terminology - didn't mean to say "go out of 4WD." What I was referring to is when a tire is uneven, it can tell the system to place more power into another wheel if it thinks a wheel is slipping. Maybe it doesn't occur in the Limited, but my '03 Ford Explorer Advance Trac system would do this on dry pavement and it was extremely annoying. I even replaced all the tires so they would be even all around and it still happened.

I've put 85k miles on my 2003 V8 4Runner. It has full-time 4WD with a Torsen center diff -- essentially the same system as the 5th gen Limited. And I still don't understand what you are saying.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

I've put 85k miles on my 2003 V8 4Runner. It has full-time 4WD with a Torsen center diff -- essentially the same system as the 5th gen Limited. And I still don't understand what you are saying.

I've seen it... I have felt it in the Fords and my old Trooper would do it too. The threshold on the computer programming is so tight that they were very sensitive to overall tire diameter and the 4wd/AWD system on those is different. Rather than being a true differential they magnetically engaged the front wheels via a clutch in the t-case (they both use a Borg-Warner IIRC). This clutch was designed to run at varying levels of slip depending on the needs. The clutch was primitive and would occasionally chatter like old school limited slip differentials.

Any variation in tire OD and sometimes when doing very sharp low speed turns the system would think you were slipping and react to 'correct' the non-existent problem.

 

[M1911]

That sounds like a different type of AWD system -- that is, if the rear wheels slipped, then it would engage and send torque to the front axle.

That is a very different system than the Torsen center diff on the 4th gen and 5th gen Limited. In normal driving, the Torsen sends torque to both axles.

 

[dekeman]

If it were my wife, I'd give her the Limited. She's a good driver, can even drive a standard, but can barely figure out automatic climate control, let alone changing from 2WD to AWD on the fly. If your wife's brain works anything like my wife's, she needs simplicity so she can concentrate on the driving, not the driveline. (Don't think my wife will ever figure out Bluetooth.)

Everything you described points you to one truck - the Limited. It's just as good off-road as the SR5 but more luxurious, more simple to operate.

And despite what some have said here, the SR5 is more than fine operating in 4H at anything below 100 km/h (62 mph) - just as long as the switch over takes place below 80 km/h.

 

[M1911]

And despite what some have said here, the SR5 is more than fine operating in 4H at anything below 100 km/h (62 mph) - just as long as the switch over takes place below 80 km/h.

Speed isn't the issue with a part-time system. The issue is turning on dry pavement. That is not something you want to do in 4WD with a part-time system.

 

[PredBlue]

Speed isn't the issue with a part-time system. The issue is turning on dry pavement. That is not something you want to do in 4WD with a part-time system.

Dear Preacher:

Does it feel like :ybrick: ?

Sincerely,
Choir

 

[M1911]

Dear Preacher:

Does it feel like :ybrick: ?

Sincerely,
Choir

No kidding. I can't pull out any more hair, since I don't have any left on top of my head.