HELP ME MY ABS AlMOST KILLED ME.

[Jayzero911]

I am surprised that no one is complaining about the systems on the 01 4Runners. I may only be 23 and don't have 20+ years driving, but I have been around cars all my life. I learned and have been driving on dirt roads sense I was 11, and I do have racing experience. I'm not trying to boast or anything I am saying this so you understand my driving a little bit.

My 01 the systems are great on in the city streets most of the time, but there not ideal and I plan to disable them for off road use ONLY. Last winter was only my 2ed time in the snow and only the first time off road in the 4Runner. But I couldn't get to CAMP GROUNDS in Prescott with the TRAC on with snow chains on the back tires. If there was a slight incline the alarms would got off and the truck would stop in its tracks (even started backing down one hill). So I turned off the TRAC and was pissed when it comes back on automatically. I was happy that is dos not come back on in low gear. Well got it off and was able to go just about anywhere, when I came up to a 4x4 FJ Cruiser that was stuck. I helped pull him out of the snow and then continued down the path he got stuck in. So I'm saying the TRAC was useless in the snow.

A few weeks ago I went out to Canyon Lake and then out to Apache Lake. On the dirt roads I had very little breaking power. I almost ran off a cliff and I was going less then 25. so I have found that the ABS is also useless in the dirt.

I plan to put these systems on a switch for my safety off city streets.

 

[larrylegend]

I have a '99 and I am considering pulling the abs fuse on mine as well. The first time it failed was normal city driving. I was going about 25-30 and came up to a light, I gave myself plenty of time to stop too. There was some road construction going on and there was a slight drop off in the level of the road I was driving on, about an inch or so. As I was braking up to the light my front tires went over the drop and my abs kicked in and I almost ended up in the intersection.

The other time I was driving on a washboard gravel/dirt road with a very slight down hill slope. I was only going about 5-10 mph and tried to brake. The abs kicked in and I started to slide sideways down the road. I wasn't even braking hard in any way. I just think that I myself can brake better than the abs in most circumstances.

 

[Wannarun]

[/B][/B]Everytime I push my breaks in snow I get a weird grinding noise and I can't stop for about 50feet! I almost died yesterday on the highway. Does this sound normal to you. I am use to no abs! So it might just take some getting use to. If I were to disnguage the abs how would the 4runner react? I'm driving a 98 4runner with 256,000km. Our winters are so bad around here. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to look at my thred. Cheers.

Searched this morning and found this thread related to what we experienced last night in our "new" 4runner. Was coming downhill on snowpacked pavement and applied the brakes....sounded like crunching snow/grinding and strong vibration in brake pedal. This really did not sound/feel good. Like entire front end was grinding and crunching. Also felt like wheels locked up but maybe was just ABS system? Kind of scary.

 

[SkidPalace]

Searched this morning and found this thread related to what we experienced last night in our "new" 4runner. Was coming downhill on snowpacked pavement and applied the brakes....sounded like crunching snow/grinding and strong vibration in brake pedal. This really did not sound/feel good. Like entire front end was grinding and crunching. Also felt like wheels locked up but maybe was just ABS system? Kind of scary.

I am going to assume from your post that you have never driven an ABS vehicle in the snow before. What you have described is the normal operational behavior of the ABS system. If you had no trouble stopping on that same hill in a similar sized SUV with similar treaded tires under similar snow conditions then maybe you should take your truck in for an inspection.
Otherwise, it sounds like your ABS did it's job and stopped you.
What vehicle was your "old" vehicle?

 

[Wannarun]

I am going to assume from your post that you have never driven an ABS vehicle in the snow before. What you have described is the normal operational behavior of the ABS system. If you had no trouble stopping on that same hill in a similar sized SUV with similar treaded tires under similar snow conditions then maybe you should take your truck in for an inspection.
Otherwise, it sounds like your ABS did it's job and stopped you.
What vehicle was your "old" vehicle?

Previous vehicles include '96 F350 4x4 (still own) and '04 Jeep rubicon, neither with ABS, both driven in snow/ice conditions. Honestly, the sound the 4runner made caused one of those "that can't be normal" kind of reactions....but maybe it can?

 

[blaniac22]

As was said throughout this thread, the ABS system is there to help you.

As experienced winter drivers will attest, if you stand on the brakes in snow/ice in a non-ABS vehicle you'll be going for a ride without any control whatsoever. We are taught to pump the brakes, but a lot of people will stand on them in an emergency. The ABS pumps the brakes faster than humanly possible allowing you to maintain control of the vehicle. If we panic because we don't understand how the ABS is supposed to act or sound then it's of no help. THis means we have to change our driving style and redefine what is "normal" in an emergency situation.

When I purchased my first car that had ABS I went out and found a wet (and empty) parking lot and tested it out to familiarize myself with what to expect in an emergency stop....in other words, I went out and sped up to about 20-30 MPH and stood on the brakes. It doesn't sound or feel good, but it's better than the alternative.

 

[Wannarun]

As was said throughout this thread, the ABS system is there to help you.

As experienced winter drivers will attest, if you stand on the brakes in snow/ice in a non-ABS vehicle you'll be going for a ride without any control whatsoever. We are taught to pump the brakes, but a lot of people will stand on them in an emergency. The ABS pumps the brakes faster than humanly possible allowing you to maintain control of the vehicle. If we panic because we don't understand how the ABS is supposed to act or sound then it's of no help. THis means we have to change our driving style and redefine what is "normal" in an emergency situation.

When I purchased my first car that had ABS I went out and found a wet (and empty) parking lot and tested it out to familiarize myself with what to expect in an emergency stop....in other words, I went out and sped up to about 20-30 MPH and stood on the brakes. It doesn't sound or feel good, but it's better than the alternative.

Good info, thanks!

 

[Maritimer]

Mine comes on a lot with all the hard pack and ice and parking lots full of snow. The other night I thought the right turn lane was wet--but it was ice--and I skidded (with steering ability) to the Yield sign for my lane.

Without ABS I may have skidded sideways into a bank or just straight into another bank. I just barely stopped in time, but I don't think no ABS would've been better at all. On the way back home there was a car in the bank on that same turn.

 

[blaniac22]

Mine comes on a lot with all the hard pack and ice and parking lots full of snow. The other night I thought the right turn lane was wet--but it was ice--and I skidded (with steering ability) to the Yield sign for my lane.

Without ABS I may have skidded sideways into a bank or just straight into another bank. I just barely stopped in time, but I don't think no ABS would've been better at all. On the way back home there was a car in the bank on that same turn.

You make a good point - ABS may not prevent an accident. It might still become a matter of making a choice as a driver. With ABS you might be able to choose between ditching or slamming into another car. Without it, you're going where physics takes you and you're just along for the ride.

Please don't get me wrong - it was hard for me to adjust. And it took me more than a few times in that empty parking lot to put my faith in the technology. I was used to pumping the brakes as fast as I could - but I've had at least one experience where I really think ABS saved me from wrecking the car.

I believe when driving on snow/ice we are losing traction more often than we realize. By the time we realize we are sliding, it may be too late. The ABS detects it and reacts to it faster than what we are able to.

Ever notice how much faster 30 MPH feels when you hit the brakes, expect to slow down, but you don't because you're going sideways?

 

[JohnsD90]

You make a good point - ABS may not prevent an accident. It might still become a matter of making a choice as a driver. With ABS you might be able to choose between ditching or slamming into another car. Without it, you're going where physics takes you and you're just along for the ride.

Please don't get me wrong - it was hard for me to adjust. And it took me more than a few times in that empty parking lot to put my faith in the technology. I was used to pumping the brakes as fast as I could - but I've had at least one experience where I really think ABS saved me from wrecking the car.

I believe when driving on snow/ice we are losing traction more often than we realize. By the time we realize we are sliding, it may be too late. The ABS detects it and reacts to it faster than what we are able to.

Ever notice how much faster 30 MPH feels when you hit the brakes, expect to slow down, but you don't because you're going sideways?

I agree with most of this as i have had the ABS save my ass, and also have almost put me in bad situations, But in my 4runner, i can distinctly feel the 4runner begining/in the middle of a slid, while the Discovery it becomes a little more vague which i think is like what it could be like on the 4th gen 4runner.

 

[blaniac22]

I agree with most of this as i have had the ABS save my ass, and also have almost put me in bad situations, But in my 4runner, i can distinctly feel the 4runner begining/in the middle of a slid, while the Discovery it becomes a little more vague which i think is like what it could be like on the 4th gen 4runner.

I wouldn't doubt what you are saying - some have a better "feel" for what's happening beneath their butt than others. :thumb3:

 

[MikesToy]

At least you didn't end up like this.

Colorado Springs, 12/30/10

 

[blaniac22]

At least you didn't end up like this.

Colorado Springs, 12/30/10

And sometimes the best thing to do is just stay off the roads

 

[brian2sun]

Blaniac22,
This thread isn't talking about ABS in general, only some 3rd gen 4runners. I agree that ABS is better than standard brakes in most vehicles. I have no need or want to disable it in my Honda CR-V. It works great in my parent's Ford Expedition too. But some 3rd gen 4runners have an issue with their ABS system (including mine). I've been driving for 17 years and I was born and raised in the mountains so I have been driving in snow ever since I got my license (and even a little before) as well as I've had several different vehicles - some with and some without ABS. This 4runner is the only one that has repeatedly almost caused me to crash too many times in the last 10 years to count. When you can't stop on a patch of pine needles (literally this happened to me and I slid for 2-300 ft), there is surely something wrong with the system.

If I were to reconnect my ABS and drive in the snow, it's literally like having 25-50% braking strength. In snow, my ABS will not allow the vehicle to stop until it either gets full traction again, which could be never if the roads aren't plowed, or it rolls to a stop gradually. I've owned my truck for 10 years so it's not inexperience or unfamiliarity with the vehicle. I just ran a couple trails in Johnson Valley, CA. a few weeks ago (where the King of the Hammers race is held) and I can surely say that if I had ABS hooked up, the reduced braking power would have surely made me crash because it will not give the brakes enough force to stop on steep grades (like >30%). I will say it again, the 3rd gen ABS system on some of our vehicles can be life threatening. I wouldn't bother even talking about it again and again if I wasn't 100% sure that mine does not function properly. Even Toyota said it's working fine, but they aren't testing in snow on steep, curvy mountains roads. They test it in their parking lot when all the tires have traction and in those situations it works fine.

 

[JohnsD90]

Blaniac22,
This thread isn't talking about ABS in general, only some 3rd gen 4runners. I agree that ABS is better than standard brakes in most vehicles. I have no need or want to disable it in my Honda CR-V. It works great in my parent's Ford Expedition too. But some 3rd gen 4runners have an issue with their ABS system (including mine). I've been driving for 17 years and I was born and raised in the mountains so I have been driving in snow ever since I got my license (and even a little before) as well as I've had several different vehicles - some with and some without ABS. This 4runner is the only one that has repeatedly almost caused me to crash too many times in the last 10 years to count. When you can't stop on a patch of pine needles (literally this happened to me and I slid for 2-300 ft), there is surely something wrong with the system.

If I were to reconnect my ABS and drive in the snow, it's literally like having 25-50% braking strength. In snow, my ABS will not allow the vehicle to stop until it either gets full traction again, which could be never if the roads aren't plowed, or it rolls to a stop gradually. I've owned my truck for 10 years so it's not inexperience or unfamiliarity with the vehicle. I just ran a couple trails in Johnson Valley, CA. a few weeks ago (where the King of the Hammers race is held) and I can surely say that if I had ABS hooked up, the reduced braking power would have surely made me crash because it will not give the brakes enough force to stop on steep grades (like >30%). I will say it again, the 3rd gen ABS system on some of our vehicles can be life threatening. I wouldn't bother even talking about it again and again if I wasn't 100% sure that mine does not function properly. Even Toyota said it's working fine, but they aren't testing in snow on steep, curvy mountains roads. They test it in their parking lot when all the tires have traction and in those situations it works fine.

Yes, i agree that some are flawed, mine at times has done more damage than its worth, and others has been very helpful and recused my inexpierenced a$$, but i feel many here are blaming ABS for their driving skill or therfore lack of.

 

[Jayzero911]

Yes, i agree that some are flawed, mine at times has done more damage than its worth, and others has been very helpful and recused my inexpierenced a$$, but i feel many here are blaming ABS for their driving skill or therfore lack of.

And those are the kind of comments I hate. "feel many here are blaming ABS for their driving skill or therfore lack of." That is a bold statement when you personally don't know the people your talking about or even seen them drive.

2 weeks ago I was pulling into a handy caped space at Fry's and the ABS kicked in and wouldn't allow me to stop. The concrete pillar stopped the truck. My roommate was in the truck with me and can tell you that there was nothing wrong with the way I was driving (in a parking lot going along at idle) and yet no mater what I did to stop it we hit the pillar... the ABS and TRAC are now disconnected and I have had no more "O SH!T" moments. O and this is just the only time it has damaged the truck but it has been going on for as long as I have been driving it (2years)

 

[blaniac22]

Blaniac22,
This thread isn't talking about ABS in general, only some 3rd gen 4runners. I agree that ABS is better than standard brakes in most vehicles. I have no need or want to disable it in my Honda CR-V. It works great in my parent's Ford Expedition too. But some 3rd gen 4runners have an issue with their ABS system (including mine). I've been driving for 17 years and I was born and raised in the mountains so I have been driving in snow ever since I got my license (and even a little before) as well as I've had several different vehicles - some with and some without ABS. This 4runner is the only one that has repeatedly almost caused me to crash too many times in the last 10 years to count. When you can't stop on a patch of pine needles (literally this happened to me and I slid for 2-300 ft), there is surely something wrong with the system.

If I were to reconnect my ABS and drive in the snow, it's literally like having 25-50% braking strength. In snow, my ABS will not allow the vehicle to stop until it either gets full traction again, which could be never if the roads aren't plowed, or it rolls to a stop gradually. I've owned my truck for 10 years so it's not inexperience or unfamiliarity with the vehicle. I just ran a couple trails in Johnson Valley, CA. a few weeks ago (where the King of the Hammers race is held) and I can surely say that if I had ABS hooked up, the reduced braking power would have surely made me crash because it will not give the brakes enough force to stop on steep grades (like >30%). I will say it again, the 3rd gen ABS system on some of our vehicles can be life threatening. I wouldn't bother even talking about it again and again if I wasn't 100% sure that mine does not function properly. Even Toyota said it's working fine, but they aren't testing in snow on steep, curvy mountains roads. They test it in their parking lot when all the tires have traction and in those situations it works fine.

I hear you Brian. I've never driven a 3G - let alone deal with the ABS system on it. I can only take the word of those that have driven or drive a 3G 4R that the system has flaws.

It seemed the thread took a little turn because some were concerned with the shudder, the noise, etc - all of which are normal.

 

[brian2sun]

I hear you Brian. I've never driven a 3G - let alone deal with the ABS system on it. I can only take the word of those that have driven or drive a 3G 4R that the system has flaws.

It seemed the thread took a little turn because some were concerned with the shudder, the noise, etc - all of which are normal.

Yes, I can see how some people would sort of freak out when they hear/feel the pulsating and think there is something wrong when there isn't. I'm glad you made that distinction because it is hard to tell over the internet who is in fact having actual problems and who just doesn't know how normal ABS should work and sound like.

 

[Jayzero911]

Yes, I can see how some people would sort of freak out when they hear/feel the pulsating and think there is something wrong when there isn't. I'm glad you made that distinction because it is hard to tell over the internet who is in fact having actual problems and who just doesn't know how normal ABS should work and sound like.

Agreed, I'm glad someone said it. I had too many people explane how a ABS works cuz they don't know if I know or not. I'll try to remember those details from now on lol

 

[1985taylor1925]

I posted on another thread concerning the ABS. Just wanted to chime in here. I have driven 4 or 5 different vehicles with ABS systems, and I agree that they are well designed, and for a good purpose. They do optimize stopping ability when they function correctly. The issue is not whether or not ABS is an efficient system. Normally it is. That doesnt mean you cant have a flawed system that needs some kinks worked out. What we're talking about here is the particular ABS system on the early third gen 4runners (apparently 96-98). I have the 98 sr5, and can say that it does not function the way the ABS does on the other vehicles Iv felt ABS on (honda accord, toyota tundra, pontiac grand am, ford taurus). For some reason Toyota had some design issues with it those first three years. Honesly, as Brian and others have said, its terrible, to the point of being dangerous. A few weeks ago I rolled out into an intersection going about 10 mph, because ONE of my tires hit a patch of ice. The other three were on solid concrete. But that one tire engaged the ABS, which, frankly just doesnt do what it is intended to. Rather than assisting stopping power, it entirely removes it. The 99-02 runners (even though they are 3rd gen) dont seem to have the same ABS system. I imagine the good people at Toyota worked out the kinks. But I think one would need to drive mine or a similar runner for themself, to really understand it. I'll stop rambling now.