Help? Need advice on this system...

[FlyingDutchMan]

My friend has a 2004 4runner limited with the 6disc JLB synthesis sound. She doesn't like the sound and would like to intergrate XM.

It appears to me that the Headunit is the weak link in the chain. Although the upgraded sound is slightly better, it only upgrades speakers and an amp? Is that correct? The 6 disc headunit that comes with the upgraded sound is still weak right?

Here is what we wanted to install and get some feedback on...

Pioneer Premier 760MP Headunit
Pioneer Satelite Rec.
Pioneer Premier 6 disc Changer

Scosche single DIN adapter plate for dash
Metra Wiring Harness.

Will this improve the sound of the JBL parts? Has anyone done this or similar? What was your experience?

Does this solve some of the problems the stock system has with regards to muted highs and the muffled sound?

 

[Cliff s]

P.I.E has an adaptor that allows you to integrate the XM rx with your H.U.,
use a search in this forum for many posts.

Changing the HU and doing the install is more than a trivial matter because
the amp(which is remote controlled by the HU) is behind the plastic panel
which has the wimp sub in it. You can replace the amp, but then you will
loose the balance controls.

If you use a aftermarket HU you will have to re-run all the speaker wires.
Yes, it can be done, but it is not a plug and play operation.

I have the 10 speaker JBL and agree that it does need help. What I am
considering is adding a CD changer and equalizer to see if that combination
will pep up the sound.

The other option is to tear out the existing system and start over, then you can get what you want.

Cliff s

 

[pnokeo]

Hi Cliff,

Just curious, is the centre speaker on the '04 Ltd dash a 4 ohm 3 1/2"?

Thanks!:

 

[FlyingDutchMan]

Cliff- I don't think it is that complicated at all. Because the stock HU is a highout put headunit and the JBL is a high input amp. So I can just wire the highout put leads from the Pioneer Premier HU soilder them to the Metra wireing harnes and plug that straight into the factory JBL/Toyota harness. I am 99% sure this is how other people are doing it.

This way you retain all the control, with the exception of the steering wheel controls. I will also run the "always on" positive and the ground to the aftermet head unit seperately, because I don't think the power supplied in the factory harness is enought for the stonger Pioneer HU.

The Pioneer Sat reciever then plugs into the Pioneer HU with a proprietary IP-BUs cable Pioneer supplies. And the the CD changer is daisy changed to the SAT Recieve with another IP-Bus cable. Check it out on Pioneer website, its pretty slick. The only other wiring to run is the "Always ON' and "Ground" for the Sat reviecer and the CD changers, as all the remote switching is handled through the IP-Bus cables.

This is my understanding of how this works and this is the same way the system is currently wired in my M3 with HK sounds.

The benefit of all this being that the JBL components now revieve a much cleaner and stronger signal to reproduce.

If I am making some mistaken assumptions please correct me, I need to know what I am getting into before I start this project. Thanks in advance for your input.

P.I.E has an adaptor that allows you to integrate the XM rx with your H.U.,
use a search in this forum for many posts.

Changing the HU and doing the install is more than a trivial matter because
the amp(which is remote controlled by the HU) is behind the plastic panel
which has the wimp sub in it. You can replace the amp, but then you will
loose the balance controls.

If you use a aftermarket HU you will have to re-run all the speaker wires.
Yes, it can be done, but it is not a plug and play operation.

I have the 10 speaker JBL and agree that it does need help. What I am
considering is adding a CD changer and equalizer to see if that combination
will pep up the sound.

The other option is to tear out the existing system and start over, then you can get what you want.

Cliff s

 

[kscott]

I'm going to be trying this some time in the next couple of days... I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[kscott]

Alright, here's what I did. I got a set of stereo speaker wires and soldered the ends to give them enough strength to be shoved into the connector. I connected them to my mp3 player (small little thing) for testing.

First of all, I noticed that the MUTE line (#7) reads ~0V with the radio power off and around 2.7V with the radio power on.

Then I turned off the car and disconnected the HU. I plugged the speaker wires into the appropriate places in the connector. I turned the car to ACC. There was NO SOUND. The MUTE line still read 2.7V, but I wasn't hearing anything through the speakers.

So, WITHOUT TURNING POWER OFF, I re-connected the HU. The MUTE line dropped to 0V and the HU was off when I plugged it in. I turned the HU on, the volume up to 20, and I then unplugged the HU WITHOUT TURNING THE POWER OFF. I connected my home-made speaker wires, and I HAD MUSIC!!! Through all speakers, even the sub. But I had to turn my MP3 player WAY up.

So I disconnected my wires, plugged in the HU again (when I did it was ON), and turned the volume up to 50. I disconnected it and re-connected my MP3 player and the volume was much louder.

So then I turned the key to OFF and back to ACC and, of course, music is gone.

So it looks like the amp controls volume as well. Also, it needs some sort of comm. with the HU to turn on and remain on. If anyone has any bright ideas, I'd love to hear them, cause I really don't want to shell out for a new amp.

Thanks.

 

[FlyingDutchMan]

Good work Scott. Sounds like the best plan is to cut the stock amp out and run the speakers off the amp in the aftermarket headunit?

What do you think?

 

[kscott]

Yeah, that definitely sounds like a solution. I was really hoping to run everything through the amp though. I'm not actually connecting a new HU, rather a computer, so I have limited outputs. Plus the JBL system actually sounds pretty good (IMO).

Someone tell me there's hope somewhere!

 

[kscott]

quick update:

i dont think i made this clear in my last post. after removing the HU with the power on and key on ACC, when you move the key to OFF and back to ACC, the AMP turns on (you can hear the white noise). also, the MUTE line still shows ~2.7V. it seems like the amp is waiting for the HU to tell it what volume to go to... does that make sense?

now for the real (stupid) question (keep in mind i have NO electrical knowledge): is there a way to somehow *record* what the HU sends the amp, and then play that back every time power comes on?

that would be excellent!!

thanks

 

[rando]

Your first step would be to put a scope on that signal line and take a look at what is going on there. If you can decode it, it's possible you could implement the protocol using a programmable microcontroller. Ultimately though, this is going to be quite a bit of work to save an amp that likely isn't much better than an inexpensive 4 channel aftermarket amp.

 

[kscott]

rando,

couldn't you just say "why yes, just attach the black wire to the white one." thats what i was looking for

that does seem like a lot of work... i'm just trying to find ANY way not to spend another few hundred dollars on top of all the $$ i've shelled out for the puter.... maybe i'll just stick some computer speakers on the passenger seat.

 

[Cliff s]

The PIE adaptor plugs into the 12 pin plug on the back of the HU. You then press
the CD button and get more inputs to you system. Everything works just like stock.

It has been discussed many times before in this forum.

Cliff s

 

[FlyingDutchMan]

The PIE adaptor plugs into the 12 pin plug on the back of the HU. You then press
the CD button and get more inputs to you system. Everything works just like stock.

It has been discussed many times before in this forum.

Cliff s

Cliff, could you link me to a thread, I can't get anything to come up using search.

Also explain the what you mean by PIE adaptor?

 

[Cliff s]

Sure here is the link to PIE's page.

http://www.pie.net/pctoyota.htm

Scroll down to the Pioneer/XM adaptor,
I think this adaptor will work.

If you look around on the site you will find
adaptors that will allow added CD-changers and etc.

I would just disconnect the speaker that is in the middle of the dash.

Cliff s

 

[FlyingDutchMan]

Okay, I understand what those do... but my question is how do I hook a aftermarket headunit to the stock amp and still have balance, fader, mute. and volumne controls. I don't think this is possible, unless you want to loose the flexibility of controling the audio controls within the stock amp.

The stock amp, isn't really just an amp its a AMP+Audio Controler+Surround Processor.

I think the better ticket might be to wire the aftermarket Pioneer Preimier headunit straight to the stock speakers using the headunits internal 4x50 watt amp. Using this to drive the stock front and rear door speakers only.

Then just add a power bazooka tube to fill in the bass, but run that off of the Subwoofer outputs on the headunit. This would give your full control over the sound using the aftermarket headunit.

What do you think?

Sure here is the link to PIE's page.

http://www.pie.net/pctoyota.htm

Scroll down to the Pioneer/XM adaptor,
I think this adaptor will work.

If you look around on the site you will find
adaptors that will allow added CD-changers and etc.

I would just disconnect the speaker that is in the middle of the dash.

Cliff s

 

[kuljc]

Okay, I understand what those do... but my question is how do I hook a aftermarket headunit to the stock amp and still have balance, fader, mute. and volumne controls. I don't think this is possible, unless you want to loose the flexibility of controling the audio controls within the stock amp.

The stock amp, isn't really just an amp its a AMP+Audio Controler+Surround Processor.

I think the better ticket might be to wire the aftermarket Pioneer Preimier headunit straight to the stock speakers using the headunits internal 4x50 watt amp. Using this to drive the stock front and rear door speakers only.

Then just add a power bazooka tube to fill in the bass, but run that off of the Subwoofer outputs on the headunit. This would give your full control over the sound using the aftermarket headunit.

What do you think?

hey... just thought i'd let you know I agree with you. The stock amps are usless usually. I read above you had a center speaker, and the only way to get that used (as a real center speaker) is to have an amp w/ 5.1 sound. Otherwise if you don't mind not having a balance option you can hook them all up in series most likely. I usually get the cheapest stock sound system and swap everything out asap, so I don't know much about the upgraded ones.

Just a couple of things to watch out for, but you probablly don't have to worry about. Some stock speakers have been known to run a very low ohm levels which will be bad for you headunit. besides that you'd be doing what i do.


also I don't know why it would be so hard installing your stock headunit and bypass the amp. For my 4runner I was lazy and purcahsed a wire harness, tookout the stock amp and plug and play it was .


p.s. sorry if i'm not posting a correct reply, i'm up late and tired so I only 1/2 know what i'm doing right now.

 

[FlyingDutchMan]

Okay, we've changed the spec a little. We decided to ditch the stock HU and amp. Instead we order a Pioneer Premier 860MP HU, with 6.5 volt preouts, they bewired via a 6channel Monster Interconnect to a Alpine F450 5 Channel Amp. 4x50, and 1x200.

The 4 Channels will be wired to the stock door JBL door speakers. The front center channel and the rear channel will get ditched, and so will the stock sub.

The amp will be installed in place of the stock subwoofer, and we are playing on using one of the JL audio ProWegde boxes with either a single 12 or dual 10's.

THe only thing I am have trouble finding is the wiring harness adaptor that fits the Toyota/JBL harness where the factory wiring harness plugs into the amp, its a 20 pin connector.

Any ideas?

hey... just thought i'd let you know I agree with you. The stock amps are usless usually. I read above you had a center speaker, and the only way to get that used (as a real center speaker) is to have an amp w/ 5.1 sound. Otherwise if you don't mind not having a balance option you can hook them all up in series most likely. I usually get the cheapest stock sound system and swap everything out asap, so I don't know much about the upgraded ones.

Just a couple of things to watch out for, but you probablly don't have to worry about. Some stock speakers have been known to run a very low ohm levels which will be bad for you headunit. besides that you'd be doing what i do.


also I don't know why it would be so hard installing your stock headunit and bypass the amp. For my 4runner I was lazy and purcahsed a wire harness, tookout the stock amp and plug and play it was .


p.s. sorry if i'm not posting a correct reply, i'm up late and tired so I only 1/2 know what i'm doing right now.

 

[V8.]

To answer your question there are adapters which you can use to plug in your aftermarket H/U in to the stock harness so you can retain the factory JBL. There is another adapter for you to keep the steering wheel controls.

PAC-TATO is the harness.
PAC Toyota Factory Integration Adapter Install a new receiver while retaining your JBL amplifier in select 2003-up Toyota and Lexus vehicles (Model TATO) at Crutchfield.com

The problem with an aftermarket H/U is that the stock JBL HU is not exactly a double DIN unit. Therefore its not going to sit perfectly or flush with the dash. You will have to use spacers to fill the gaps. If you do not mind this look great. Personally I don't like the look of the aftermarket HUs with spacers, so I used a GROM audio adapter for bluetooth, ipod,iphone, usb, aux adapters.

 

[V8.]

Okay, we've changed the spec a little. We decided to ditch the stock HU and amp. Instead we order a Pioneer Premier 860MP HU, with 6.5 volt preouts, they bewired via a 6channel Monster Interconnect to a Alpine F450 5 Channel Amp. 4x50, and 1x200.

The 4 Channels will be wired to the stock door JBL door speakers. The front center channel and the rear channel will get ditched, and so will the stock sub.

The amp will be installed in place of the stock subwoofer, and we are playing on using one of the JL audio ProWegde boxes with either a single 12 or dual 10's.

THe only thing I am have trouble finding is the wiring harness adaptor that fits the Toyota/JBL harness where the factory wiring harness plugs into the amp, its a 20 pin connector.

Any ideas?

Ha, seems like you have it figured out and my last post was a little hastey.

If you are upgrading to an aftermarket amp I would strongly suggest you replace the crappy stock door speakers. This will bring your system to life.