Help! Tundra brake upgrade fail?

[vipergrhd]

I will make this short since time is running out, bought brake kit by Powerstop KC2323 for my 99 4runner got tired of replacing/machining rotors once a year installed everything with no problem bleed the brakes front and rear after that noticed that pedal goes to the floor had to pump to bring up pedal but still mushy. My question would be is there a certain way this thing should be bled? I have tried gravity bleed and had my son pump the brake and no air in the system the only thing i can't do is activate the ABS, i have watch several Youtube videos including Tim's and no one ever mentioned about any problems with with brake pedal. I am headed to North Carolina this weekend so i need this thing ready if not i will go back to the old bake system, forgot to mention that i also replaced the master cylinder today. Thanks in advance guys.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

Did you bench bleed the master cylinder first?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[vipergrhd]

Bench bleed

Did you bench bleed the master cylinder first?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, bench bled and bled again after mounting on vehicle. I did bleed the entire system again after installing the master. I really want this to work since this will be my daughter's ride while she is in N.C.

Would like to add that the brakes were working really well prior to the swap and my only issue was a mild brake pulsation.

 

[Bad Luck]

Yes, bench bled and bled again after mounting on vehicle. I did bleed the entire system again after installing the master. I really want this to work since this will be my daughter's ride while she is in N.C.

Would like to add that the brakes were working really well prior to the swap and my only issue was a mild brake pulsation.

I get my best brake bleed with the engine running. Brakes will be softer due to larger brake pistons requiring more fluid

 

[HiLife]

I have tried gravity bleed and had my son pump the brake and no air in the system the only thing i can't do is activate the ABS

You could activate the abs by braking hard over a road with water over it. Or a gravel, dirt road. Then drive back to your garage and bleed all 4 corners again. It's a PITA as it may take multiple trips to clear air bubbles trapped in the abs. If there's any in there. This process worked for me.
If your crunched for time I would have a shop bleed it as they have all the tools to do so. Expensive but, at least you'll be able to make your trip on schedule.
I don't think your parts are at fault, your issue could just be trapped air in the system.

 

[vipergrhd]

ABS activation

You could activate the abs by braking hard over a road with water over it. Or a gravel, dirt road. Then drive back to your garage and bleed all 4 corners again. It's a PITA as it may take multiple trips to clear air bubbles trapped in the abs. If there's any in there. This process worked for me.
If your crunched for time I would have a shop bleed it as they have all the tools to do so. Expensive but, at least you'll be able to make your trip on schedule.
I don't think your parts are at fault, your issue could just be trapped air in the system.

I completely agree, my main concern is I don't even feel safe getting it out of the garage to go drive into a gravel road or slippery spot, I know that activating the ABS would push all of that air in the system if I could get it to run. How's the pedal feel and height in comparison to the original calipers? Getting this to a shop today or even tomorrow would be next to impossible.

 

[HiLife]

My pedal height is lower than the stock calipers. And the feel is a little softer than the stock calipers. The brake bite of the 231's was night and day for me so, I don't really mind the different pedal location and feel. I've gotten used to it as the miles clicked on.
Might wanna call around as some shops do have a towing service if you need one.

 

[vipergrhd]

Thanks

My pedal height is lower than the stock calipers. And the feel is a little softer than the stock calipers. The brake bite of the 231's was night and day for me so, I don't really mind the different pedal location and feel. I've gotten used to it as the miles clicked on.
Might wanna call around as some shops do have a towing service if you need one.

Thanks for your input man, my question next would be how many times did it take you to activate the ABS then bleed the system before you got to the point of this is as good as it gets? Are there any Master cylinder that would fit to compensate for the loss of pedal feel and height?

 

[HiLife]

For me, I got rid of most of the air bubbles after one cycle round of the abs. I drove around for another 50+- miles and cycled the abs once again, and bleed all 4 corners just for the hell of it. And it's been great since.

I recently had a brake booster go out on me, changed that, and the master. Bench bled the master prior to install. Bled one pedal stroke while attaching the brake lines to the master, and bled all 4 corners just to be sure. All was good, didn't had to activate the abs for that.

There are some threads discussing a fix for low pedal on the 231's. Some adjusted the rod on the booster, some had a bigger piston bore master. I didn't do either as I'm happy with my results as is.

 

[phattyduck]

Procedure for '96-'00 4Runners:

There is both a special master bleeding procedure, and a brake position bleeding procedure. Air in the ABS actuator can also be a problem, as others have mentioned.

-Charlie

 

[vipergrhd]

Air

For me, I got rid of most of the air bubbles after one cycle round of the abs. I drove around for another 50+- miles and cycled the abs once again, and bleed all 4 corners just for the hell of it. And it's been great since.

I recently had a brake booster go out on me, changed that, and the master. Bench bled the master prior to install. Bled one pedal stroke while attaching the brake lines to the master, and bled all 4 corners just to be sure. All was good, didn't had to activate the abs for that.

There are some threads discussing a fix for low pedal on the 231's. Some adjusted the rod on the booster, some had a bigger piston bore master. I didn't do either as I'm happy with my results as is.

Did you get air bubbles out of the 4 corners after the ABS actuation or just the fronts? Thanks again for your input.

 

[Ted02]

I’m in no way an expert on the subject, but this is my experience on bleeding the front brakes on my ‘02. I had no problem getting the rears to bleed, but the fronts were a PITA!, and all I could get out of them while bleeding was bubbles. I tried the “panic braking on gravel to activate the ABS” suggestion, and still nothing solid would bleed out. After trying about everything I could find on the internet, I finally tried one last suggestion before just taking it to the dealer to bleed.

With the engine running, my son pumped the brake pedal 20-50 times until the ABS light on the dash came on. At that time, he held the pedal down while I opened the bleeder valve. We did this process over and over until both fronts were free of bubbles. Probably took 3 or 4 times per side and my son’s leg was pretty worn out by the end! May not work for everyone, but was finally a success for me!

 

[vipergrhd]

Hydroboost

I’m in no way an expert on the subject, but this is my experience on bleeding the front brakes on my ‘02. I had no problem getting the rears to bleed, but the fronts were a PITA!, and all I could get out of them while bleeding was bubbles. I tried the “panic braking on gravel to activate the ABS” suggestion, and still nothing solid would bleed out. After trying about everything I could find on the internet, I finally tried one last suggestion before just taking it to the dealer to bleed.

With the engine running, my son pumped the brake pedal 20-50 times until the ABS light on the dash came on. At that time, he held the pedal down while I opened the bleeder valve. We did this process over and over until both fronts were free of bubbles. Probably took 3 or 4 times per side and my son’s leg was pretty worn out by the end! May not work for everyone, but was finally a success for me!

Ted thanks for the input and glad you got your system working, your ABS system is different from mine I think. I have a regular master cylinder and separate ABS system while your system is all integrated in one unit mounted to the firewall. What you and your son did was depressurized the ABS accumulator.

 

[Ted02]

Ted thanks for the input and glad you got your system working, your ABS system is different from mine I think. I have a regular master cylinder and separate ABS system while your system is all integrated in one unit mounted to the firewall.

Agreed! But I would think ABS is ABS, but maybe not? Personally, the brakes and ABS is about the only thing I hate about my T4R. I wish the brake system was the same as on my ‘01 Tacoma. Easy and inexpensive to work on, and fortunately no ABS!

 

[gamefreakgc]

I know the FSM doesn't say it but bleeding the brakes with the engine ON is a night and day difference. Works for both 96-00's and 01-02's with both brake booster systems and brake pump systems. I also used to have issues bleeding them after brake jobs and it'd have air trapped in there seemingly forever. Tried it with the engine on and the constant flow of fluid makes it so easy and flushes everything out.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

Open the bleeder and push pedal to the floor and hold it there while someone closes the bleeder.

If you pump your brakes and then open the bleeder you made a million tiny air bubbles that will distribute through the entire system and then settle into big air bubbles at the high spots.

When I replaced my brake hoses I had good pedal after the bleed procedure. Went and got the ABS to activate and instantly got a soft pedal. Bleed them again and had a good pedal and then activated the ABS and pedal went soft again but not as bad. Did another round of bleeding and activated the ABS and all was good.

I let it sit over night between each brake bleed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[vipergrhd]

Update

Went home early to deal with this, here is what i did, i did had a chance to activate the ABS and bleed it and was able to get some air out of the right rear i didn't notice any in the fronts on my first run i had my son just push the pedal to the floor until fluid is flowing solid then i made a second run activating the ABS this time the actuation was a little longer maybe 4 seconds went back home and bled it again after the second bleeding i have a much better pedal and brakes are starting to bite at this time.

I think most of the air is out but i will make two more runs while i'm letting it cool for now hoping that the feel and pedal height will improve more. Thank you so much for all of your suggestion i think this is considered fix right now.:clap2:

 

[vipergrhd]

Road trip

After the third run and bleed not much improvement but the brakes do such a good job of stopping the 4runner, we'll see how it is after a 2800 mile trip to N.C this week. I will post another update on how the brakes perform after the trip.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

After the trip do another bleed.

I also have a pressure bleeder. But I got a board cut long enough to hold the pedal to the floor while I close the bleed valve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[calimobber]

I have a 2002 and I have never gotten my brakes good after the tundra upgrade. They stop really good but are way softer than before. I have bleed them many times and even used techstream to cycle the abs system multiple times.

I just got used to the fast they will be kinda squishy compared to other cars now. I have heard others replacing components in the brake booster but idk.


Im always open for ways to improve it so ill be following.