Help with rear lift coils!!

[fightman80]

Hey folks,

As some of you may know, I've bought some TRD Tundra Coil/Strut assemblies, and now looking for some more lift for the rear of my 4Runner.

I've been PM'ing Duhockey for a couple of weeks now (thanks Duhockey for all your patience and for answering all my questions!), and reading up on Cornfed spacers (Thanks again Blcktpgsr for all your help!), and all the LC coil Threads, and want to get the rear up with very little extra money invested as possible.

Cornfed's been giving me the runaround, and I can't get them to ship my spacers, as their "Staff is currently out of the country on business"! They just keep refunding my money, so I've decided to ditch that idea!

I've found a guy here in Ontario, who would get me some brand new LC coils for about $200.00 plus shipping or I can go pick them up. The only thing is this "All Toyota" guy, advises against using the LC Coils?? He says they give a harsh ride??? Everyone who has used these on this forum, says they ride really well! Is this guy on Glue?? I'm thinking that if the ride is harsh, then it's the shocks not soaking up enough of the road, right?

To top it off, this guy says he and his wife both drive 3rd Gens, and he has taken 2 sets of coils, hacked them up, screwed them into eachother and welded them together to add lift in the back. I've always heard that this is a bad thing.......but he says that he heats up and then cools the coils at a very slow rate, and his 4Runner still has the same hacked coils in it from 9 years ago. He also said he could take my truck in, do the job and give it to me at the end of the day, for about $350.00.

Does this stuff sound legit??? I'm thinking this guy is some crazy hillbilly with some crazy idea's about lifting his 4Runner.......

I'm thinking Duhockey and Rockitop Auto is my best bet!

 

[xskydivingdudex]

ok well as for the LC coils being $200, that sounds steep so i would look on ih8mud bc im sure there has to be someone selling some used coils that are in Canada.

The coils should ride a little better, i jsut installed some to replace my 891s and on the drive home it seemed better though i wasnt on them too long. So ya im thinking its prob the shocks and maybe they got OME LC coils which will ride rough.

Have u seen the guy's 4runner who said he hacked the coils together and it lifted his 4runner? I mean ive nvr heard of this but it MIGHT be possible... not too sure. I would say if u are thinking bout going this route, tell him to let u look under the 4runner closely to check everything out and if it looks ok then go for it!

 

[J-money$$$]

dont go with that dude. He sounds like a whack-job. You dont need to cut cruiser springs and weld them back together.....

here is what i know. Landcruiser springs are way longer than 4runner lift springs, like the ome 891's i run. They also have a way softer spring rate, which is nice if you are looking for that.

The only issues with running the cruiser springs is that if you want to ever put a rear bumper or something heavy in the back they will sag way down. I personally have a few hundred lbs of dtuff in the rear of my runner when ever i go wheeling. I have a bin with tools, and a cv joint, and a co2 setup etc.

So just make sure thats what you are looking for. The cruiser springs can be hard to find.

edit: i saw you have the tire carrier in the back. Thats most likely too much weight to end up with a somewhat level ride. The ome 891 are the heavy duty springs, and i bought them knowing that i would never tow or anything with the runner. They are soft enough to fully stuff the rear easily

 

[xskydivingdudex]

ya dude too bad ur in Canada or i would try to sell u my OME 891s...

 

[theizzardking]

my understanding of it is, as a rule of thumb you never ever cut a coil, as no matter how you heat or cool the coil cutting it completely changes the spring rate, then to hack another spring on top and weld it does all sorts of funky stuff, he has no idea what the spring rate is for his fabbed coils, anyways people have died from riding on coil like this before.

everything this guy is doing sounds wrong to me, putting heat in the cool expands the metal and releases some of the stress that make the spring work, then cooling down slowly like that will make the spring pretty soft as most of the tension that's work to make the spring work is gone......

formula for spring rate, by plugging numbers into this you can see cutting a coil changes the spring rate, putting heat into the coil will also change the deflection of the spring and the rigidity of it. correct me if i'm wrong here, i'm only a jr. engineer, lol, so i know just enough to be dangerous, lol,

really though i'd just wait and get the lc coils, i have them in the rear and they feel fine, i'm actually more upset about how my OME coils in the front ride, lol, to bad this didn't come up earlier i just gave away my extra 8 wraps to another forum member here.

Rate (N/mm) = G d^4/ ( 8 N D^3) where

F = Force (N/mm)
G = Modulus Of Rigidity (N/mm^2>
d = dia of wire.(mm)
D = Mean dia of spring (mm)
N = Number of Active Springs.
K = Wahl Correction = [(4C - 1)/(4C - 4)] + 0.615/C
C = Spring Index = D/d
de = deflection (mm)

 

[theizzardking]

where in canada are you i live 55 miles from the border in WA, i think my brother in law may have a few more sets laying around, i can ask him and see if i can find you a set, i just hate shipping things.....

 

[Nelsonmd]

Uh, yeah, that guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Coil springs are heat treated, and regardless of izzard's calculations (which are probably correct), the heat treatment is very important. It generally doesn't really matter how fast you heat the metal up, but the quenching method has a profound effect on the crystal structure after treatment; it is almost like having 2 completely different metals. They will bend differently, they will will deform differently, and they will corrode differently.

He is not doing the quenching correctly. Chances are these springs are oil quenched, or require a very specific cooling rate, which he is not matching. Maybe he doesn't have a problem, but he also does not have the same springs as he started with.

Look elsewhere even if it costs you way more.

 

[Pikeman]

OK I have the SS 1.2 kit in rear. The springs are nice and smooth in most situations and not harsh at all. The only time I have had any complaints is over small close ripples or washboard type roads. It doesnt seem to react that well to those and the back end moves around almost like it is sliding out. Also more attributed to the shock valving then spring rate. Regular street driving, off-road in all other situations the LC coils work well.

The other guy you mentioned welding two springs together is some hillbilly engineering. Springs are heat treated and set at a spring rate. Once you reheat and cool or cut the spring you change the rate of the spring and will never ride like it did before. Look at all the lowered vehicles that just cut their springs, end up to stiff and just bouncing down the road. The ones that replace the spring with a custom one with factory rates just shorter ride a lot smoother.

 

[brian2sun]

Hey folks,

As some of you may know, I've bought some TRD Tundra Coil/Strut assemblies, and now looking for some more lift for the rear of my 4Runner.

I've been PM'ing Duhockey for a couple of weeks now (thanks Duhockey for all your patience and for answering all my questions!), and reading up on Cornfed spacers (Thanks again Blcktpgsr for all your help!), and all the LC coil Threads, and want to get the rear up with very little extra money invested as possible.

Cornfed's been giving me the runaround, and I can't get them to ship my spacers, as their "Staff is currently out of the country on business"! They just keep refunding my money, so I've decided to ditch that idea!

I've found a guy here in Ontario, who would get me some brand new LC coils for about $200.00 plus shipping or I can go pick them up. The only thing is this "All Toyota" guy, advises against using the LC Coils?? He says they give a harsh ride??? Everyone who has used these on this forum, says they ride really well! Is this guy on Glue?? I'm thinking that if the ride is harsh, then it's the shocks not soaking up enough of the road, right?

To top it off, this guy says he and his wife both drive 3rd Gens, and he has taken 2 sets of coils, hacked them up, screwed them into eachother and welded them together to add lift in the back. I've always heard that this is a bad thing.......but he says that he heats up and then cools the coils at a very slow rate, and his 4Runner still has the same hacked coils in it from 9 years ago. He also said he could take my truck in, do the job and give it to me at the end of the day, for about $350.00.

Does this stuff sound legit??? I'm thinking this guy is some crazy hillbilly with some crazy idea's about lifting his 4Runner.......

I'm thinking Duhockey and Rockitop Auto is my best bet!

Yes that guy is smoking crack. Hacking and welding coils is just plain dumb. And LC coils are the smoothest riding coils next to stock 4runner coils so his harsh comment is unfounded. I've never ran LCs on my truck but I've installed them and felt them and they are much softer and smoother riding than OME 890s or 891s (but they wont hold extra weight or stand up to pulling a trailer as well as OMEs. LCs are pretty close to stock 4runner spring rate. That dude's advice is pretty much exactly the opposite of what our combined experience has lead us to.

 

[Shoke]

You might to try the classifieds on ih8mud.com

I posted up a want ad for LC Front Coils and got at least 4-5 hits.

Ended up getting my set for $20

 

[theizzardking]

yeah i was more less saying putting heat in at any rate will effect things, when the heat goes in that's when the molecules start rearranging the cooling down part is where you try to reorder them in the way you want of course you can over heat things as well and destroy their properties . and doing so in such a slow method make me thing that he's just ordering things to their natural state more or less which takes all of the tension out of the spring....regardless of this mental exercise i'd stay well away from this guy and like nelson said there is no way it's repeatable every time he does it and he has no idea of what the actual spring rate is.

What does stress relieving do to the spring dimensionally?
Stress relieving does change spring dimensions. Temperature and length of time in the oven, as well as material type, vary the spring dimension changes. We anticipate these changes so final product meets specifications. In general the following is true:

Stress relieving or heat treating affects the type of springs as follows:

1. Extension: reduction in initial tension; change in hook position; change in spring diameter
2. Compression: reduction in initial tension; change in spring diameter
3. Torsion: reduction in initial tension; low temperature stabilizes position of ends

pretty basic spring info

Spring Engineering Tips

 

[FJ40LVR]

Good advice has been given - IH8MUD.com you will find a lot of 80 series coils - cheap. If you are going to have a full rear bumper and tire carrier, just get a new set so you dont have any droop - the rear end will be quite a bit higher than stock height, and the ride will be great. What are you doing for the front to balance?

 

[fightman80]

Good advice has been given - IH8MUD.com you will find a lot of 80 series coils - cheap. If you are going to have a full rear bumper and tire carrier, just get a new set so you dont have any droop - the rear end will be quite a bit higher than stock height, and the ride will be great. What are you doing for the front to balance?

I'm going to check out IH8MUD.com, but am already working out a deal with someone else on the forum as I type this. If IH8MUD.com has some Canadians on there willing to sell me their Cruiser coils for cheap, I'm going to give them a shot. Aside from that, my tire carrier is actually not that heavy, considering the weight of the tire was already at the back of the truck anyway, my carrier by itself, probably weighs less the 30 lbs??? It's built completely off my towing package, so no extra weight added by a complete steel bumper.......I'm thinking the 891's might be overkill for my application.

As for the front, I'm going to be running the TRD Tundra Strut assemblies with a top out spacer for a little extra lift......

By the way, thanks guys for all of your input on that Hillbilly hacker! I was pretty sure that cutting and welding springs was a big NO NO....even went to talk to a fabricator today after I posted this thread......he concurred with all of you guys!

 

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