HFO-1234yf Refrigerant

[Lester Lugnut]

HFO-1234yf to replace R134A refrigerant.

WEB research indicates Europe has been on it for sometime as well as some U. S. car mfg's. Lots of concerns about flammability issues.

I have found some info on the WEB that suggests R134A will no longer be used after 2017. I'm not sure if this is set in stone just yet, at least for the U. S. The product is costly - about 10X the cost of R134A. I suspect that would fall off some once mass production is underway.

When R12 bit the dust, I was asleep at the wheel. Fortunately I was able to obtain a 609 certification from MACS for $20 and buy all I wanted. That didn't help with the cost of R12.

I will load up on R134A as I have some young R134A vehicles that will be driven another 10-15 yrs.

Looking for better info on R134A life cycle info from engineers/techs closer to this issue.

Any ideas when R134A will no longer be on auto parts stores shelves?

 

[Ezlife45]

I used to be more familiar with the terminology but it's been a while.

Check with ASHRAE and you ought to be able to determine whether or not R-134A is on the chopping block. First the production will be stopped then prices will start to rise until the remaining (legally manufactured) stock is used up. That is what happened to R-12 and to some extent in similar circumstances (maybe minus the price hike) 100 W light bulbs.

Back in the day (94-95 ish) I had a refrigeration license but did not have an automotive refrigeration license. I could walk into a refrigeration store and purchase a 30 lb drum of R-12 but I could not go to an auto parts store and buy a 1 lb can. R-12 went from about 300 bucks a drum to well over $1000 by the time i stopped tracking it.

Good luck in your search.

 

[Lester Lugnut]

Ezlife45 - thanks for the info.

ASHRAE appears to be HVAC-centric, but I'll monitor the site from time to time for papers that cover this issue.

I'll also keep an eye out for updates at MACS - Mobile Air Conditioning Society - the group I obtained my 609 cert. from:

MACS WorldwideHome

 

[BlackWorksInc]

How compatible is the new refrigerant with R134a? I must admit I've known this would happen but I have been somewhat distant from any sources really. Keep in mind they've been saying for years they're going to replace R134a even going as far to say they wanted to use a CO2 based refrigerant, so it may be years off until this is finalized.

I think the compatibility will signal how R134a will go, at least with R12 the difference was relatively minor in terms of fittings and a new accumulator being enough to get by. If the seals/oil compatibility is an issue in R134a systems it may mean that R134a will still stick around a bit.

 

[Lester Lugnut]

I presented my question to MACS. Here is the response I received from their President.


EPA has proposed a plan (which has not been finalized yet) to phase-down R-134a.

What EPA has proposed is that no vehicles built after 2021 can have R-134a A/C systems. Of course, some of the car manufacturers are moving to R-1234yf before that date. Fiat Chrysler has already changed over most of its vehicles to R-1234yf. We expect others to follow suit.

However, EPA has not proposed eliminating R-134a for service. In fact, R-134a systems cannot, by regulation, be retrofitted to use R-1234yf.

All indications are that R-134a will be available to service the millions of systems that utilize that refrigerant for many years to come.


Elvis L. Hoffpauir

President

Mobile Air Conditioning Society

215-631-7020 Ext. 303