Hope for the best prepare for the worst.How are you prepping for the covid-19 virus.

[cb1111]

NYC doctors have changed their treatment protocol since they have noticed patients blood thickening with an increase in clotting prior to patients even needing intubation.

These are the results of a Google search for 'corona virus blood thickening'

This is why it may be difficult to identify the cause of death beyond cerebral anoxia (brain death due to lack of oxygen).

For example, if a patient (for the case of this question let's say this hypothetical patient had no underlying conditions) died from a stroke caused by clotting due to blood thickening from the corona virus, what would the cause of death really be?
cerebral anoxia?
stroke?
COVID-19?
other?

Would the cause of death change if the hypothetical patient had underlying conditions?

I have no idea how this is done in the medical community/by coroners.

Most death certificates list the primary cause and the contributing cause(s).

My dad died of Alzheimer's (probably one of the worst diseases ever), but technically died of an infection (UTI) with Alzheimer's being the contributing factor. In reality, if he didn't have Alzheimer's then he wouldn't have had the recurring UTIs...

Today, many patients that died and had COVID-19 (even those with underlying conditions) would be alive had it not been for COVID-19 (regardless of quality of life).

Technically, everyone who dies, dies of heart failure....

 

[Deuxdiesel]

Maybe now that HCQ hype is over, more efforts can be put into creating a vaccine.

 

[spartacus]

Colorado lifts mandatory stay at home orders with strict health and safety guidelines starting April 26th.

 

[Oldmanb777]

Kolorado is now "Safer at home". So a bit relaxed from "Stay at home". A long way from what was normal. Still lots of restrictions. Like no short term rentals, and larger gatherings, restaurants still closed, except for take out. Tourist traps still closed. Wear masks when possible contact with other might occur. Etc. I might be able to get a haircut next week. Probably won't. Grey haired mullet, maybe...… :heh:

 

[thennen]

Kolorado is now "Safer at home". So a bit relaxed from "Stay at home". A long way from what was normal. Still lots of restrictions. Like no short term rentals, and larger gatherings, restaurants still closed, except for take out. Tourist traps still closed. Wear masks when possible contact with other might occur. Etc. I might be able to get a haircut next week. Probably won't. Grey haired mullet, maybe...… :heh:

:nod:

 

[Rapid_Amble]

The plandemic part of the response to virus is collapsing.

Got to hand it to the plandemic planners and troops though, doing their best to plug the dam springing leaks.

Herd immunity being achieved in Sweden, where they did not shut down everything No lockdown in Sweden but Stockholm could see '''herd immunity''' in weeks

And daylight is shining, but you have to hunt for it, on some shady mainstream "news" practices https://www.*****ute.com/video/6CoA92jWc31z/

Edit: forum apparently does not like b-i-t-c-h-u-t-e (without the dashes) in the url above.

 

[2012sr5]

Maybe now that HCQ hype is over, more efforts can be put into creating a vaccine.

The study that claimed treating COVID-19 patients with HCQ results in more deaths was (a) not a peer-reviewed clinical trial, and (b) even said that controlled trials are still needed. In addition,

• the patients were not representative of the general population (median age of 70 and most participants are black, which skews the results given the racial disparity of the virus’s impact),
• the most severe cases received disproportionately more of the drug even though there is a correlation between advanced age and the severity of the side effects, and
• other studies/anecdotes suggest that HCQ *does* work.

All of the above info and links are found in this article.

But of course, there are many who see every aspect of this crisis as an opportunity to attack Trump, so they quickly jump to the conclusion that he was wrong about HCQ and is directly responsible for all HCQ-related deaths (even the guy who died from ingesting aquarium cleaner).

It was exhausting watching the GOP do this to Obama for 8 years, but they didn’t have the concerted droning of ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NYT, and WaPo on their side. This is particularly fatiguing for independents and is serving to accomplish the seemingly impossible task of getting people to sympathize with Trump as a victim of his opponents.

I think Bill Maher is right: this TDS crap is just going to get him re-elected.

 

[techno]

...
Herd immunity being achieved in Sweden, where they did not shut down everything
....

This will be interesting to watch. So far they've had a massively high mortality rate at 12% and and there's been a 20% reinfection rate. Herd immunity might not be all it's cracked up to be. Time will tell.

 

[Jernik]

But of course, there are many who see every aspect of this crisis as an opportunity to attack Trump, so they quickly jump to the conclusion that he was wrong about HCQ and is directly responsible for all HCQ-related deaths (even the guy who died from ingesting aquarium cleaner).

It was exhausting watching the GOP do this to Obama for 8 years, but they didn’t have the concerted droning of ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NYT, and WaPo on their side. This is particularly fatiguing for independents and is serving to accomplish the seemingly impossible task of getting people to sympathize with Trump as a victim of his opponents.

OMG, THIS!! I do jump in occasionally to fan the flames or present opposing viewpoints on forums where I'm comfortable with the crowd, but reading comments in other areas of the interwebs (including most mainstream news sources) IS exhausting. I cannot decide if everyone is bored and trolling, or if everyone actually believes their "party" is infallable and perfect while the other is completely the opposite and anyone supporting the opposition is worthless and should not even be considered as or treated like a human being.

We're all in this world together, and whether it's surviving Covid or figuring out how to best provide for everyone's needs, shouting down one another and refusing to engage in respectful discussion and dare I say compromise does not help us find meaningful resolutions that move us forward.

On edit: I'm not dogging this forum or members here, for the most part it's kept pretty respectful on T4R with only the occasional flare up / outburst. It gets ugly in other parts of the web though - try reading comments on any mainstream media page (that allows them) and you'll quickly lose all faith in the human race.

 

[Rapid_Amble]

This will be interesting to watch. So far they've had a massively high mortality rate at 12% and and there's been a 20% reinfection rate. Herd immunity might not be all it's cracked up to be. Time will tell.

12% is # deaths / # tested positive. It isn't a real mortality rate.

More people have had the virus than have been tested for it. If the studies from Stanford and USC are correct, minimum 50x more people have the virus than have been tested for it in Santa Clara and Los Angeles. Probably would apply elsewhere, if correct.

 

[ElectroBoy]

I’m not very interested in all the blah about mortality rate percentages, as if there’s an acceptable rate of pandemic deaths that we should gladly embrace. There are inaccuracies in the reported numbers of infected people, symptomatic cases, non-symptomatic cases, deaths due to covid, etc. etc. There’s not enough testing going on to be precise. Every single body is not autopsied and tested for the virus, but informed medical determinations are made as to cause of death. There’s no need for conspiracy theorists to scream with hair on fire that the CDC is inflating the numbers.

I’m more concerned about the total number of deaths due to this virus. It’s killing all age groups but mostly the elderly, co-morbidities or not. And young healthcare workers are getting lots of exposure and dying from it. This isn’t the last virus the world will have to deal with. I’d like our older generation and veterans to enjoy the rest of their lives without this pain. I’d like all my family and friends to grow old, enjoy life, and stay virus free. I’d like to do the same.
This isn’t the world of Logan’s Run.

 

[Rapid_Amble]

I’m not very interested in all the blah about mortality rate percentages, as if there’s an acceptable rate of pandemic deaths that we should gladly embrace. There are inaccuracies in the reported numbers of infected people, symptomatic cases, non-symptomatic cases, deaths due to covid, etc. etc. There’s not enough testing going on to be precise. Every single body is not autopsied and tested for the virus, but informed medical determinations are made as to cause of death. There’s no need for conspiracy theorists to scream with hair on fire that the CDC is inflating the numbers.

I’m more concerned about the total number of deaths due to this virus. It’s killing all age groups but mostly the elderly, co-morbidities or not. And young healthcare workers are getting lots of exposure and dying from it. This isn’t the last virus the world will have to deal with. I’d like our older generation and veterans to enjoy the rest of their lives without this pain. I’d like all my family and friends to grow old, enjoy life, and stay virus free. I’d like to do the same.
This isn’t the world of Logan’s Run.

Read the CDC guidelines. They're guiding health care workers to guess and presume.

It matters what the real (or at least a reasonable estimated) mortality rate is because >25m people have lost their livelihoods and are applying unemployment due to shutting down the economy over something that is looking more and more like your average flu year.

 

[Rapid_Amble]

Another study - this one shows almost 14% of people across New York State and about 21% in New York City had the coronavirus. That would put mortality rate about 0.5%.

Study shows 13.9% of people tested in New York have coronavirus antibodies, Cuomo says - CBS News

 

[RichinRidgewood]

... Richie.... .

Right now we are discussing how to allocate ventilators. If we have a rapid increase in cases here like in Italy, then the local ERs will run out of capacity. Cases in NY have nearly doubled to 2382 with 23% going into hospital.

I just got off a telcon with the German version of the CDC and they effectively validated the assumption that this may go 18 months.

Another interesting point is that they've found that some people may present without any symptoms for up to 3 weeks - a week longer than the 14 days we speak about here.

Yes, it looks like anti-malarials plus "z-pack" anti-biotics are promising.

Just on a call with Roche/Quest and others. Roche can supply 5million tests per month but Quest/LabCorp can only do 20k tests per day (each) but getting specimens taken and to the labs is a bottleneck.

Yah know cb1111, either you are not who you purport to be or you a loose lipped government employee who could be a national security risk. If you are spouting off this stuff on a forum, God only knows what else you are saying/posting in other places.

Even an intern would know better than to post minutes of internal meetings let alone minutes about other governments and other companies on the internet.

Im hoping you are a 14 year old parroting crap he/she has read on the internet. The later has much more serious consequences.

 

[Charlievee]

Wait for it.... Working out is good for you.

"Regular exercise may reduce the risk of acute respiratory distress syndrome, a major cause of death in patients with the COVID-19 virus, a top exercise researcher reports. He is urging people to exercise based on his findings, which also suggest a potential treatment approach."

COVID-19: Exercise May Help Prevent Deadly Complication

open the gym!

 

[ElectroBoy]

Yah know cb1111, either you are not who you purport to be or you a loose lipped government employee who could be a national security risk. If you are spouting off this stuff on a forum, God only knows what else you are saying/posting in other places.

Even an intern would know better than to post minutes of internal meetings let alone minutes about other governments and other companies on the internet.

Im hoping you are a 14 year old parroting crap he/she has read on the internet. The later has much more serious consequences.

Hmmm... this sounds familiar.

https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3476923-post1137.html

 

[RichinRidgewood]

Hmmm... this sounds familiar.

https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3476923-post1137.html

Obviously Mark you don't have any idea about what I'm talking about.

 

[ElectroBoy]

Obviously Mark you don't have any idea about what I'm talking about.

Nope.
Does anybody here?

 

[ElectroBoy]

Read the CDC guidelines. They're guiding health care workers to guess and presume.

It matters what the real (or at least a reasonable estimated) mortality rate is because >25m people have lost their livelihoods and are applying unemployment due to shutting down the economy over something that is looking more and more like your average flu year.

Yeah, I read the CDC guidelines. Since you didn’t provide the reference document in question, here it is.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf


Is this the text you’re worried about?
“When COVID–19 is determined to be a cause of death, it is important that it be reported on the death certificate to assess accurately the effects of this pandemic and appropriately direct public health response.”

Or this?
“In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely. However, please note that testing for COVID–19 should be conducted whenever possible.”

I bet it’s this:
“An accurate count of the number of deaths due to COVID–19 infection, which depends in part on proper death certification, is critical to ongoing public health surveillance and response. When a death is due to COVID–19, it is likely the UCOD and thus, it should be reported on the lowest line used in Part I of the death certificate. Ideally, testing for COVID–19 should be conducted, but it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate without this confirmation if the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty.”

Evil conspiracy?
Or hair on fire?

 

[Rapid_Amble]

Yeah, I read the CDC guidelines. Since you didn’t provide the reference document in question, here it is.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf


Is this the text you’re worried about?
“When COVID–19 is determined to be a cause of death, it is important that it be reported on the death certificate to assess accurately the effects of this pandemic and appropriately direct public health response.”

Or this?
“In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely. However, please note that testing for COVID–19 should be conducted whenever possible.”

I bet it’s this:
“An accurate count of the number of deaths due to COVID–19 infection, which depends in part on proper death certification, is critical to ongoing public health surveillance and response. When a death is due to COVID–19, it is likely the UCOD and thus, it should be reported on the lowest line used in Part I of the death certificate. Ideally, testing for COVID–19 should be conducted, but it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate without this confirmation if the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty.”

Evil conspiracy?
Or hair on fire?

I posted their guidelines some time ago.

An objective reading of the text translates to mean they recommend people guess. Close enough for government work lol. Maybe healthcare workers don’t follow CDC guidelines?

even though the death counts are very likely inflated if following cdc guidelines, based on those 3 recent studies of 3 different populations, there still is very likely zero excess mortality rate over the flu across the aggregate population. The mortality is highly concentrated in a specific demographic, >90% of deaths due to older people with comorbidities. Doesn’t make sense to shut down the entire nation at this point.