Hope for the best prepare for the worst.How are you prepping for the covid-19 virus.

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when you people understand. your safety is not OUR responsibility. you keeping yourself and your family safe is YOUR job. if you're doing that, what someone else is doing does not matter.


nobodies safety outweighs my liberty.


maybe some of you should learn personal responsibility and stop expecting the government to do it for you.

Nobody’s safety outweighs your liberty?
I believe the Preamble to the US Constitution has a different opinion of that. Italics are mine.
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
 
Nobody’s safety outweighs your liberty?
I believe the Preamble to the US Constitution has a different opinion of that. Italics are mine.
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
none of what you said negates what I said.


and, in case anyone is wondering, my safety doesn't outweigh YOUR liberty either. its mutual, and goes both ways.


the lack of personal responsibility in this country is astounding. if we were all taking care of ourselves we would be so much better off.


stop worrying about how your neighbor is living. worry about yourself.
 
you saying that shows me, that its you that doesn't know it. most of this country doesn't know it.
It seems to me that your preferred way of life within a society would fall under the term anarchy. Unfortunately the more popular use of that word is what actually happens, hence why we have elected officials within a democratic system to prevent that.

I will say though, I completely agree with your statement regarding people taking more personal responsibility in life. That would solve many, many issues. But we still benefit from government stopping ones 'liberties' negatively affecting anothers. :)
 
none of what you said negates what I said.


and, in case anyone is wondering, my safety doesn't outweigh YOUR liberty either. its mutual, and goes both ways.


the lack of personal responsibility in this country is astounding. if we were all taking care of ourselves we would be so much better off.


stop worrying about how your neighbor is living. worry about yourself.

What you are saying is true. But in the instances when there is a great decision to be made that affects the country as a whole, and we can’t have a multitude of opinions, (i.e., go to war or stay neutral, keep secret classified intelligence info or publish it, let people die or temporarily tank the economy, etc.) our government makes the decision for us. Our Constitution gives the government certain powers and it has to consider all the consequences, weigh the consequences, and make the decision. We have to live with it. You can try going to court to change a decision, but good luck with that.

BTW, we’d probably be better off, and never would have shut down the country, if the govt had paid attention to all the warnings, the intelligence community, and the Obama era playbook for pandemic preparation. But that’s a whole different discussion.
 
What you are saying is true. But in the instances when there is a great decision to be made that affects the country as a whole, and we can’t have a multitude of opinions, (i.e., go to war or stay neutral, keep secret classified intelligence info or publish it, let people die or temporarily tank the economy, etc.) our government makes the decision for us. Our Constitution gives the government certain powers and it has to consider all the consequences, weigh the consequences, and make the decision. We have to live with it. You can try going to court to change a decision, but good luck with that.

BTW, we’d probably be better off, and never would have shut down the country, if the govt had paid attention to all the warnings, the intelligence community, and the Obama era playbook for pandemic preparation. But that’s a whole different discussion.

Please point to the parts of the US Constitution that allow lockdowns due to pandemics.

What's the Obama era playbook for pandemic preparation - must be depleting ventilators and masks, and funding the Wuhan bio lab that unleashed the virus to the tune of $3.7m.
 
Living life and trusting God. This is the first time I ever saw a virus shut down half the planet. It’s idiotic.
totally agree
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This is a new thing for all of us. Never before have you been asked to sacrifice your livelihood and freedom, or a large portion of those, to help some percentage of the population avoid getting sick. From what I’ve read, as of about a week ago, the US had tested about 10k per 1 million people. About 20% of those, or 2k/1,000,000, tested positive. This amounts to about 2/10 of one percent positive, based on testing. And it seems that 99% of those recover, and many have mild or no symptoms. Sorry, I know testing is a moving target, but it’s all we have that gives us any number on positive cases. And if I misstated numbers, please feel free to correct me.

The thing about this is that when you want to promote economic recovery, you’re frequently addressed with the statement, “Well, if it saves even one life, it’s worth it.” The problem is, deciding to get our jobs back and our economy back has nothing to do with weighing life against money. One can use the ‘saving one life’ argument at any time, and nobody will respond with, “Yes, getting our economy back (or my job, or my freedom, etc.) is actually worth the loss of xxx lives.”

In my head, I’ve occupied both sides of this discussion for weeks. I see both sides, and I’ve read most of the arguments on here. I have a son with Down Syndrome, and if he ever got sick to the point of having to spend a couple weeks in the hospital with no contact from us, it would explode his mind. He would have absolutely no idea why we’re doing this to him, and would fight everything and everyone who was trying to help him. Never mind my wife and me, and his brothers – we would be heartbroken and beside ourselves. And me – if I were to somehow succumb to this disease, my wife would be lost. She would have him to raise all by herself. And he can be a handful at 17, believe me. So I get the fear factor of this thing.

My perspective has moved around as this progresses and I learn more about it. Today, I’m leaning harder and harder toward getting the economy roaring again, and we can do that wisely. Personally, I need to do what I can in my own world to mitigate/avoid this in the lives of my family members. But I think we’re beyond the point where I should expect all of you to do this on my behalf, especially at the expense of your jobs and freedoms. I'm a big boy and I've learned how to distance myself.

This thing is moving at the speed of a glacier, and I don’t think we can afford to wait for it to be totally squashed and gone. Life has risks, and disease is one of those. I believe that everyone wants the best outcome, including those people with whom I disagree politically or morally.
 
Please point to the parts of the US Constitution that allow lockdowns due to pandemics.

What's the Obama era playbook for pandemic preparation - must be depleting ventilators and masks, and funding the Wuhan bio lab that unleashed the virus to the tune of $3.7m.
Probably one of the few times I've agreed with you. There were two significant pandemic plans - the first in 2005 and the update in 2017.

That's not to say that the plans were followed this time, but the significant plans were done outside of the Obama era. That also doesn't mean that the Obama administration did things badly, but they also didn't do everything right.
 
Probably one of the few times I've agreed with you. There were two significant pandemic plans - the first in 2005 and the update in 2017.

That's not to say that the plans were followed this time, but the significant plans were done outside of the Obama era. That also doesn't mean that the Obama administration did things badly, but they also didn't do everything right.

I'd better keep score. Maybe 2x now? Low batting average though? 1 beer for each single :beer:
 
Please point to the parts of the US Constitution that allow lockdowns due to pandemics.

What's the Obama era playbook for pandemic preparation - must be depleting ventilators and masks, and funding the Wuhan bio lab that unleashed the virus to the tune of $3.7m.

If you’re wondering what it is, it’s title is
Playbook for Early Response to High-Consequence Emerging Infectious Disease Threats and Biological Incidents, also called the “the pandemic playbook”.

In 2016 the Obama administration created a 69-page National Security Council playbook that included hundreds of tactics and policy decisions to “prevent, slow, or mitigate the spread of an emerging infectious disease threat.”

It was created because the world’s failed response to the 2014-2015 spread of the Ebola virus.

The Trump administration ignored it probably because it was a remnant of Obama’s administration.

Here’s an article about it and the document is enclosed so you can read it. Or just google “pandemic playbook” to read about it at your news source of choice.

Trump team failed to follow NSC’s pandemic playbook - POLITICO
 
If you’re wondering what it is, it’s title is
Playbook for Early Response to High-Consequence Emerging Infectious Disease Threats and Biological Incidents, also called the “the pandemic playbook”.

In 2016 the Obama administration created a 69-page National Security Council playbook that included hundreds of tactics and policy decisions to “prevent, slow, or mitigate the spread of an emerging infectious disease threat.”

It was created because the world’s failed response to the 2014-2015 spread of the Ebola virus.

The Trump administration ignored it probably because it was a remnant of Obama’s administration.

Here’s an article about it and the document is enclosed so you can read it. Or just google “pandemic playbook” to read about it at your news source of choice.

Trump team failed to follow NSC’s pandemic playbook - POLITICO

Thanks for the info and the link.

The author looks like he's out to get POTUS, but let's ignore that.

Looks like it took 2 pandemics for this plan to get created by the Obama admin - H1N1 (2009) and Ebola. But let's forget that.

In Section III of the plan from your link, the plan calls for relying on the WHO to assess the risk of the disease threat. I've posted several times already with links showing the WHO helped China suppress news and details of the Wuhan virus, including ignoring early alerting from Taiwan, which allowed the virus to spread worldwide unabated for 3-4 months.

Perhaps the Trump admin did follow the plan and the blame should be cast on the WHO and China. And the author should correct his article.

Edit: Plus, Fauci and Birx are providing the admin's response. Why aren't you blaming them? They've relied most of this time on the incredibly, really super bad IHME models. If you believe the admin's response is bad, then you should believe Fauci and Birx provided bad advice and sheltering in place and closing businesses has not worked.
 
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all parties, and all citizens. its universal.

I think you're saying everyone has the right to shelter in place, and close their business if they so choose.

On the other hand, no one has the right to force anyone else to shelter in place or deem anyone else's business as non-essential and force it to close.

Looks about right.
 
Thanks for the info and the link.

The author looks like he's out to get POTUS, but let's ignore that.

Looks like it took 2 pandemics for this plan to get created by the Obama admin - H1N1 (2009) and Ebola. But let's forget that.

In Section III of the plan from your link, the plan calls for relying on the WHO to assess the risk of the disease threat. I've posted several times already with links showing the WHO helped China suppress news and details of the Wuhan virus, including ignoring early alerting from Taiwan, which allowed the virus to spread worldwide unabated for 3-4 months.

Perhaps the Trump admin did follow the plan and the blame should be cast on the WHO and China. And the author should correct his article.

Edit: Plus, Fauci and Birx are providing the admin's response. Why aren't you blaming them? They've relied most of this time on the incredibly, really super bad IHME models. If you believe the admin's response is bad, then you should believe Fauci and Birx provided bad advice and sheltering in place and closing businesses has not worked.

Yeah, lots of mistakes were made. Hopefully lessons will be learned. There will definitely be a lot written post-apocalypse about what should have been done. And who (WHO and China and others) to blame for contributing to the initial slow response. And giving bad advice. Now that we’re here we have to adapt and get out of this the best we can.
It will be interesting to see how Sweden comes out of this when compared to other countries. And if their response, or some version of it, will be built into the US plans for the next pandemic. There’s gotta be a better way than near-total shutdown. Hospital and staffing surge capacity has to be given more attention so we don’t get in this predicament again.
At the very least, every household should be better prepared to be more self-sufficient.

As far as Fauci and Birx coloring the administration policy, they worked on the best information they had at the time. Models should change each time a decision is made. The pessimistic models affected the emergency building of temporary hospital capacity, ventilators, etc. some of which was not needed, and freaking out the whole country when so far it’s been centered in the NYC area. In any case, the Trump administration did not actually shut down the country. Each state or county or city did it on their own. The administration only gave out recommendations, and mostly after the states were already shut down.
 
I know that a lot of people will dismiss this as left wing, anti-trump, fascist, fake news, but give it a read with an open mind. After all, lots of us read all the linked news articles in this thread, even though they’re from UK tabloids and Breitbart.

Trump reportedly ignored intel briefings on coronavirus threat

Referencing this WAPO article:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...66949a-8885-11ea-ac8a-fe9b8088e101_story.html

(Hint, if you’re having trouble reading it clear your cookies)
 
Thanks for the info and the link.

The author looks like he's out to get POTUS, but let's ignore that.

Looks like it took 2 pandemics for this plan to get created by the Obama admin - H1N1 (2009) and Ebola. But let's forget that.

In Section III of the plan from your link, the plan calls for relying on the WHO to assess the risk of the disease threat. I've posted several times already with links showing the WHO helped China suppress news and details of the Wuhan virus, including ignoring early alerting from Taiwan, which allowed the virus to spread worldwide unabated for 3-4 months.

Perhaps the Trump admin did follow the plan and the blame should be cast on the WHO and China. And the author should correct his article.

Edit: Plus, Fauci and Birx are providing the admin's response. Why aren't you blaming them? They've relied most of this time on the incredibly, really super bad IHME models. If you believe the admin's response is bad, then you should believe Fauci and Birx provided bad advice and sheltering in place and closing businesses has not worked.
The "playbook" was one of many exercises that are developed by each and every administration and differ from a plan. Incoming administrations are bombarded by these exercises - nuclear bomb - terrorist use of anthrax - N.Korean suitcase bomb - Iranian nukes - natural disasters (many of these) - planes into buildings - Chernobyl - Three Mile Island - the economy - failing housing market - banks crashing - NATO falling apart - Ukraine - Iraq - Afghanistan - and everything else you can think of. Each of those has a "playbook" and often include black swan scenarios.

In retrospect, it is always easy to say "why didn't they...."
 
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