Hope for the best prepare for the worst.How are you prepping for the covid-19 virus.

[gfxcruncher]

Just curious... how long are we gonna keep everyone locked down? How many jobs, companies, and thus tax revenue can we bear to lose? The virus isn't going away. So we've contained it, sort of (maybe), for now. Even if a Covid-shot comes available, shots are not 100% guaranteed to prevent someone from catching what they've been innoculated for - and certainly doesn't stop one from transferring the virus. How do we move forward - realistically (no utopian dreams of everyone magically doing what's right on their own because we all know that won't happen)?



Open question to everyone, not intended to put the person I quoted on the spot.



We have two groups of people;



1) Those who fear Covid and think any and all costs are worth it to avoid/defeat it, and



2) Those that fear the economic loss for generations to come and feel the risk of losing our country (our way of life) > potential cost in loss of life due to the virus.



On edit: Beware - frustrated rant to follow.



We constantly put a price on our lives. For example, 39,000 people died in car wrecks in 2019 (National Safety Council estimate). But we accept those deaths in exchange for all the convenience the automobile brings to our lives - we don't ban cars and force everyone to not drive. Hell, we don't even regulate max speed a vehicle is allowed to attain from factory - why do we allow the sale of street legal cars that can run over 100 mph (some over 200 mph) when the highest lawful limit I know of in this country is 85?



Estimates for 2020 from the American Cancer Society suggest around 135,000 people will die from lung cancer, yet we can still buy cigarettes - we don't ban them from being made. Wouldn't that make sense if we didn't put a price on lives (tax revenue and jobs from tobacco sales)?



According to the American Diabetes association, 270,000 people in 2017 had diabetes listed as a contributing factor to death (with 83,000 of those listed as the underlying cause being diabetes). Cardiovascular disease claimed 840,000 lives in 2016. Despite nearly a million deaths a year from diabetes and cardiac disease, healthy food is more expensive than the cheaper and more prevalent mass produced foods made of fat, sugar, sodium, and unpronounceable man made chemicals. We don't ban Doritos and Coke because they're tasty and they make too much money for corporat shareholders and again tax coffers (not to mention what pharmaceutical companies and hospitals rake in treating these diseases). Also, we are not given adequate time off to tend to medical issues/sickness properly, or to relax and release tension from our busy schedules. Nor are many in this country paid a wage that helps them sleep easy at night despite puttimg in "full time" hours. No, we can't have that it would affect the bottom line profits and productivity! After all if I'm paying an employee $5 an hour to be in that seat he damn well better be there whenever I want him there, to hell with his family/health needs! Right?



So what's the price for Covid, and how come with this one specific virus we are suddenly so willing to pay any and all costs and go to such great lengths to save lives when we routinely casually discard massive numbers of deaths and preventable illness caused by other things? We can force everyone into house arrest and destroy our whole economy for Covid, but we can't shut down big tobacco? Or make it more affordable/practical to provide and eat healthier foods? Or take some profits from shareholders and corporate execs and pay the little people more to live on? Or allot more sick/vacation time and/or flexible work schedules? Or provide better preventive health care? Or mandate our automobiles be slower/safer? So many things we could already be doing to save lives, but the price has been deemed too high and too inconvenient to implement any meaningful changes... except for Covid19.

Nail on the head.

Hopefully further bankrupting the country on the drive towards socialism was worth it in the rear view... what a train wreck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deuxdiesel]

Just curious... how long are we gonna keep everyone locked down? How many jobs, companies, and thus tax revenue can we bear to lose? The virus isn't going away. So we've contained it, sort of (maybe), for now. Even if a Covid-shot comes available, shots are not 100% guaranteed to prevent someone from catching what they've been innoculated for - and certainly doesn't stop one from transferring the virus. How do we move forward - realistically (no utopian dreams of everyone magically doing what's right on their own because we all know that won't happen)?

Open question to everyone, not intended to put the person I quoted on the spot.

We have two groups of people;

1) Those who fear Covid and think any and all costs are worth it to avoid/defeat it, and

2) Those that fear the economic loss for generations to come and feel the risk of losing our country (our way of life) > potential cost in loss of life due to the virus.

On edit: Beware - frustrated rant to follow.

We constantly put a price on our lives. For example, 39,000 people died in car wrecks in 2019 (National Safety Council estimate). But we accept those deaths in exchange for all the convenience the automobile brings to our lives - we don't ban cars and force everyone to not drive. Hell, we don't even regulate max speed a vehicle is allowed to attain from factory - why do we allow the sale of street legal cars that can run over 100 mph (some over 200 mph) when the highest lawful limit I know of in this country is 85?

Estimates for 2020 from the American Cancer Society suggest around 135,000 people will die from lung cancer, yet we can still buy cigarettes - we don't ban them from being made. Wouldn't that make sense if we didn't put a price on lives (tax revenue and jobs from tobacco sales)?

According to the American Diabetes association, 270,000 people in 2017 had diabetes listed as a contributing factor to death (with 83,000 of those listed as the underlying cause being diabetes). Cardiovascular disease claimed 840,000 lives in 2016. Despite nearly a million deaths a year from diabetes and cardiac disease, healthy food is more expensive than the cheaper and more prevalent mass produced foods made of fat, sugar, sodium, and unpronounceable man made chemicals. We don't ban Doritos and Coke because they're tasty and they make too much money for corporat shareholders and again tax coffers (not to mention what pharmaceutical companies and hospitals rake in treating these diseases). Also, we are not given adequate time off to tend to medical issues/sickness properly, or to relax and release tension from our busy schedules. Nor are many in this country paid a wage that helps them sleep easy at night despite puttimg in "full time" hours. No, we can't have that it would affect the bottom line profits and productivity! After all if I'm paying an employee $5 an hour to be in that seat he damn well better be there whenever I want him there, to hell with his family/health needs! Right?

So what's the price for Covid, and how come with this one specific virus we are suddenly so willing to pay any and all costs and go to such great lengths to save lives when we routinely casually discard massive numbers of deaths and preventable illness caused by other things? We can force everyone into house arrest and destroy our whole economy for Covid, but we can't shut down big tobacco? Or make it more affordable/practical to provide and eat healthier foods? Or take some profits from shareholders and corporate execs and pay the little people more to live on? Or allot more sick/vacation time and/or flexible work schedules? Or provide better preventive health care? Or mandate our automobiles be slower/safer? So many things we could already be doing to save lives, but the price has been deemed too high and too inconvenient to implement any meaningful changes... except for Covid19.

You bring up some very valid points, however I think it is important to also look at it from the point that people who smoke, eat horrible food, drink too much, don't exercise, drive unsafely and generally live a risky lifestyle are making choices. Obviously not all bad choices have bad outcomes, nor do all good choices have good outcomes, but with something like Covid-19, which is still trying to figure itself out just as we are trying to figure it out, the risks are too unpredictable. It's not the fat, 60 year old smokers who die from Covid-19 that worry most people, it is the 35 year old healthy people who rapidly deteriorate and die that create the most worry.

 

[Brick Sprickly]

Hopefully further bankrupting the country on the drive towards socialism was worth it in the rear view... what a train wreck.

Yeah funny how the GOP preaches 'let the markets decide' yet drops the majority of stimulus money as a bailout to huge corporations, many of which don't even claim American residency.

'I guess these companies should have been saving better. Not our fault they are irresponsible with their money.' Now where have I heard a similar line over and over?

With all the demonizing socialism gets, it's hilarious to see it's widespread adoption through bailouts and subsidies.

 

[ElectroBoy]

Yeah funny how the GOP preaches 'let the markets decide' yet drops the majority of stimulus money as a bailout to huge corporations, many of which don't even claim American residency.

'I guess these companies should have been saving better. Not our fault they are irresponsible with their money.' Now where have I heard a similar line over and over?

With all the demonizing socialism gets, it's hilarious to see it's widespread adoption through bailouts and subsidies.

With more eating and less exercise we’ll all be too big to fail.

 

[Brick Sprickly]

With more eating and less exercise we’ll all be too big to fail.

Got me man I spit out my coffee haha

 

[Brick Sprickly]

So I guess to stymie much of the arguing let's just leave this here and see what happens over the next few weeks eh?


Guidelines call for 14-day drop in cases to reopen. No state has met them.

 

[4Reak Show]

With all the demonizing socialism gets, it's hilarious to see it's widespread adoption through bailouts and subsidies.

Couldn't have said it better myself. People scurry away from socialism and communism based primarily on media renditions making it seem terrible! Yet capitalism appears soooo fragile now doesn't it? It requires constant working and spending, working and spending and once that stops the house of cards crumbles.

What I find the most ironic is the people I know that are the most right wing "bleeding red conservatives" open their hands the fastest to snatch the government money.

The irony of all this is what I find the most amusing.

 

[thennen]

I can see why politics are not good on a site like this.

 

[nevada]

Yes it is my responsibility but it is also everyones responsibility to not go the **** out when they are sick? But do people still go out while sick and spread this shit? Of course they do how the hell do you think its spreading?

Do you realize how much parents just send their kid to school sick? Am I supposed to go and stand there and make sure every damn kid is not sick for the day?

It starts with the knuckle heads that spread the shit.

YOU can ***** all you want but the lock down already happened so live with it. *****ing and moaning at this point isn't going to get you anywhere.

zero "lockdown" has happened for me. my daily routine has not changed one bit, and it will continue.


my *****ing is about you *******s wanting the government to keep everyone else shutdown, and not just those that ARE sick. I don't give two shits about your feelings on me, or what im saying. you, nor anyone else with keep me from being free.

you agreed, yet you still don't get it. it is your responsibility PERIOD to keep yourself safe. THE END. what someone else does is irrelevant. if you fear someone sending their sick kids to school and your kids/you will get it, KEEP YOUR ****ING KIDS AT HOME.

stop putting your responsibilities on others. and stop asking that someone else enforces it.




edit: btw, the way this virus is going, you can pretty much count on EVERYONE getting it. lets open this shit up and get it over with.

 

[cb1111]

Just curious... how long are we gonna keep everyone locked down? How many jobs, companies, and thus tax revenue can we bear to lose? The virus isn't going away. So we've contained it, sort of (maybe), for now. Even if a Covid-shot comes available, shots are not 100% guaranteed to prevent someone from catching what they've been innoculated for - and certainly doesn't stop one from transferring the virus. How do we move forward - realistically (no utopian dreams of everyone magically doing what's right on their own because we all know that won't happen)?

Open question to everyone, not intended to put the person I quoted on the spot.

We have two groups of people;

1) Those who fear Covid and think any and all costs are worth it to avoid/defeat it, and

2) Those that fear the economic loss for generations to come and feel the risk of losing our country (our way of life) > potential cost in loss of life due to the virus.

On edit: Beware - frustrated rant to follow.

We constantly put a price on our lives. For example, 39,000 people died in car wrecks in 2019 (National Safety Council estimate). But we accept those deaths in exchange for all the convenience the automobile brings to our lives - we don't ban cars and force everyone to not drive. Hell, we don't even regulate max speed a vehicle is allowed to attain from factory - why do we allow the sale of street legal cars that can run over 100 mph (some over 200 mph) when the highest lawful limit I know of in this country is 85?

Estimates for 2020 from the American Cancer Society suggest around 135,000 people will die from lung cancer, yet we can still buy cigarettes - we don't ban them from being made. Wouldn't that make sense if we didn't put a price on lives (tax revenue and jobs from tobacco sales)?

According to the American Diabetes association, 270,000 people in 2017 had diabetes listed as a contributing factor to death (with 83,000 of those listed as the underlying cause being diabetes). Cardiovascular disease claimed 840,000 lives in 2016. Despite nearly a million deaths a year from diabetes and cardiac disease, healthy food is more expensive than the cheaper and more prevalent mass produced foods made of fat, sugar, sodium, and unpronounceable man made chemicals. We don't ban Doritos and Coke because they're tasty and they make too much money for corporat shareholders and again tax coffers (not to mention what pharmaceutical companies and hospitals rake in treating these diseases). Also, we are not given adequate time off to tend to medical issues/sickness properly, or to relax and release tension from our busy schedules. Nor are many in this country paid a wage that helps them sleep easy at night despite puttimg in "full time" hours. No, we can't have that it would affect the bottom line profits and productivity! After all if I'm paying an employee $5 an hour to be in that seat he damn well better be there whenever I want him there, to hell with his family/health needs! Right?

So what's the price for Covid, and how come with this one specific virus we are suddenly so willing to pay any and all costs and go to such great lengths to save lives when we routinely casually discard massive numbers of deaths and preventable illness caused by other things? We can force everyone into house arrest and destroy our whole economy for Covid, but we can't shut down big tobacco? Or make it more affordable/practical to provide and eat healthier foods? Or take some profits from shareholders and corporate execs and pay the little people more to live on? Or allot more sick/vacation time and/or flexible work schedules? Or provide better preventive health care? Or mandate our automobiles be slower/safer? So many things we could already be doing to save lives, but the price has been deemed too high and too inconvenient to implement any meaningful changes... except for Covid19.

There is a huge difference between COVID-19 and smoking induced cancer, lifestyle induced diabetes and hypertension and so forth.

The difference being that we can decide to smoke, eat too much, eat the wrong things, not to exercise and the like.

Catching COVID-19 is, in effect, something that is foisted up us by others. I can avoid smoking induced cancer by not smoking and I can't catch your smoking induced cancer by hanging around with you - but you can be the reason that I get COVID-19. If I eat 10 pounds of bacon every day, then I'll clog my arteries and I may die, but I won't make you sick.

Even if we look at automobile fatalities, the majority of those are caused by people doing illegal things - drinking, texting, not wearing seatbelts - things that can be controlled - it isn't a tradeoff between lives and driving and there are no "acceptable" fatalities as we are doing what we can to reduce fatalities.

I can do things to reduce my chances of getting sick (washing my hands, social distancing) but all it takes is one ignorant, arrogant person who refuses to wear a mask.

 

[Rapid_Amble]

Couldn't have said it better myself. People scurry away from socialism and communism based primarily on media renditions making it seem terrible! Yet capitalism appears soooo fragile now doesn't it? It requires constant working and spending, working and spending and once that stops the house of cards crumbles.

What I find the most ironic is the people I know that are the most right wing "bleeding red conservatives" open their hands the fastest to snatch the government money.

The irony of all this is what I find the most amusing.

Socialist and communist regimes have enslaved and killed way more people than all world wars and abortions combined. The first thing they’ve all done is take away the equivalent of the 2nd amendment, followed by taking away the 1st. Then the mass murders start.

In the US we have a representative democracy with highly regulated markets.

If you’re going to promote government systems that oppress and subjugate everyone under state control, at least understand the systems.

 

[Dillusion]

Just curious... how long are we gonna keep everyone locked down? How many jobs, companies, and thus tax revenue can we bear to lose? The virus isn't going away. So we've contained it, sort of (maybe), for now. Even if a Covid-shot comes available, shots are not 100% guaranteed to prevent someone from catching what they've been innoculated for - and certainly doesn't stop one from transferring the virus. How do we move forward - realistically (no utopian dreams of everyone magically doing what's right on their own because we all know that won't happen)?

Open question to everyone, not intended to put the person I quoted on the spot.

We have two groups of people;

1) Those who fear Covid and think any and all costs are worth it to avoid/defeat it, and

2) Those that fear the economic loss for generations to come and feel the risk of losing our country (our way of life) > potential cost in loss of life due to the virus.

On edit: Beware - frustrated rant to follow.

We constantly put a price on our lives. For example, 39,000 people died in car wrecks in 2019 (National Safety Council estimate). But we accept those deaths in exchange for all the convenience the automobile brings to our lives - we don't ban cars and force everyone to not drive. Hell, we don't even regulate max speed a vehicle is allowed to attain from factory - why do we allow the sale of street legal cars that can run over 100 mph (some over 200 mph) when the highest lawful limit I know of in this country is 85?

Estimates for 2020 from the American Cancer Society suggest around 135,000 people will die from lung cancer, yet we can still buy cigarettes - we don't ban them from being made. Wouldn't that make sense if we didn't put a price on lives (tax revenue and jobs from tobacco sales)?

According to the American Diabetes association, 270,000 people in 2017 had diabetes listed as a contributing factor to death (with 83,000 of those listed as the underlying cause being diabetes). Cardiovascular disease claimed 840,000 lives in 2016. Despite nearly a million deaths a year from diabetes and cardiac disease, healthy food is more expensive than the cheaper and more prevalent mass produced foods made of fat, sugar, sodium, and unpronounceable man made chemicals. We don't ban Doritos and Coke because they're tasty and they make too much money for corporat shareholders and again tax coffers (not to mention what pharmaceutical companies and hospitals rake in treating these diseases). Also, we are not given adequate time off to tend to medical issues/sickness properly, or to relax and release tension from our busy schedules. Nor are many in this country paid a wage that helps them sleep easy at night despite puttimg in "full time" hours. No, we can't have that it would affect the bottom line profits and productivity! After all if I'm paying an employee $5 an hour to be in that seat he damn well better be there whenever I want him there, to hell with his family/health needs! Right?

So what's the price for Covid, and how come with this one specific virus we are suddenly so willing to pay any and all costs and go to such great lengths to save lives when we routinely casually discard massive numbers of deaths and preventable illness caused by other things? We can force everyone into house arrest and destroy our whole economy for Covid, but we can't shut down big tobacco? Or make it more affordable/practical to provide and eat healthier foods? Or take some profits from shareholders and corporate execs and pay the little people more to live on? Or allot more sick/vacation time and/or flexible work schedules? Or provide better preventive health care? Or mandate our automobiles be slower/safer? So many things we could already be doing to save lives, but the price has been deemed too high and too inconvenient to implement any meaningful changes... except for Covid19.

I'm not saying we need a 100% solution to open back up. I know it will never go away. I know we need to get the economy going yesterday. But the lock down prevent the immediate rush of over flowing the hospitals.

There is more than (2) groups I don't fell I fall in either or but some of both.

Smoking and diabetes are not comparable to COVID. #'s wise yes. But those things don't kill people in weeks upon diagnosis. They don't require taking up our limited amount of ventilators. Its not only about the numbers.

Why are people constantly stuck on just #'s when comparing stuff and not looking at the bigger picture.

I've contributed way more to this thread than I intended. Stuff like this always turns political and gets butt hurt because they not getting their way.

 

[Dillusion]

zero "lockdown" has happened for me. my daily routine has not changed one bit, and it will continue.


my *****ing is about you *******s wanting the government to keep everyone else shutdown, and not just those that ARE sick. I don't give two shits about your feelings on me, or what im saying. you, nor anyone else with keep me from being free.

you agreed, yet you still don't get it. it is your responsibility PERIOD to keep yourself safe. THE END. what someone else does is irrelevant. if you fear someone sending their sick kids to school and your kids/you will get it, KEEP YOUR ****ING KIDS AT HOME.

stop putting your responsibilities on others. and stop asking that someone else enforces it.




edit: btw, the way this virus is going, you can pretty much count on EVERYONE getting it. lets open this shit up and get it over with.

I'll remember to shed a tear for you "freedom" when I care.

I bet you were going to move to Canada if Trump was elected also.

 

[Jernik]

There is a huge difference between COVID-19 and smoking induced cancer, lifestyle induced diabetes and hypertension and so forth.

The difference being that we can decide to smoke, eat too much, eat the wrong things, not to exercise and the like.

Catching COVID-19 is, in effect, something that is foisted up us by others. I can avoid smoking induced cancer by not smoking and I can't catch your smoking induced cancer by hanging around with you - but you can be the reason that I get COVID-19. If I eat 10 pounds of bacon every day, then I'll clog my arteries and I may die, but I won't make you sick.

Even if we look at automobile fatalities, the majority of those are caused by people doing illegal things - drinking, texting, not wearing seatbelts - things that can be controlled - it isn't a tradeoff between lives and driving and there are no "acceptable" fatalities as we are doing what we can to reduce fatalities.

I can do things to reduce my chances of getting sick (washing my hands, social distancing) but all it takes is one ignorant, arrogant person who refuses to wear a mask.

Just to be devil's advocate (and because I kinda feel like arguing just a bit more).

I think your last statement also applies to the automobile - you can be doing everything you can to be safe, and some idiot runs a red light at 100 and blasts you in the door, or crosses lanes at the last second and slams head on into you. Nothing you could do but stay home to prevent it.

I also disagree somewhat on the smoking deal. I grew up in a house full of smokers - for the first 18 years of my life I didn't have a choice other than be immersed in 2nd hand smoke on a regular basis. Plus, how addictive are they again? If it's an easy choice to be healthy, why do so many have a hard time kicking the habit? Shouldn't cigarettes be highly regulated like addictive narcotics due to their addictive nature and overall negative impact to the health of people (and those around them)?

Food choices. Are they always choices? Sure, some people (like me) have the means and intelligence to know better, but I still choose to eat unhealthy more often than I should. But how many people do not have the money OR the education to make better choices? Like a previous post, they mentioned a coworker whose whole family was wiped out by covid becaus they were all unhealthy. In their case I bet their eating habits and knowledge of nutrition (or lack of) were learned at a young age. Compound that with poverty, the statistical trend that poverty level poor people receive less education, and add that the unhealthiest foods are the cheapest to buy and easiest to prepare and we have a national disaster on our hands. What if half of those 1 million deaths could be prevented by policy changes (more education, more regulation of food industry ingredients, banning of all personal automobiles and cigarettes). Would it be worth the sacrifices to save 500 thousand lives per year? As a bonus, it would reduce demand on the healthcare system so they could have resources available to treat other ailments, like covid19.

 

[4Reak Show]

Socialist and communist regimes have enslaved and killed way more people than all world wars and abortions combined.

Of all the example of deaths, those 2 have got to be the most unrelated. That's hilarious.

Capitalism has wasted more tax payer money than all starbursts wrappers and space launches combined.

In the US we have a representative democracy with highly regulated markets.

You're referring to the current over debted, totally corrupt system right? Where corporations can buy these representatives?

If you’re going to promote government systems that oppress and subjugate everyone under state control, at least understand the systems.

Is it similar to using tax payer money to pay taxpayers at the expense of yet to be taxpayers? Or the oppressive system we have where we have to pay taxes yet have next to zero direct say so as to how it's spent? Including extensive luxury vacations and lifetime health care and retirement etc etc.

Stop thinking our system is perfect. It ain't. Socialism probably isn't the cure, but capitalism is doomed for failure forever and always. Has in the past. Will in the future.

 

[nevada]

I'll remember to shed a tear for you "freedom" when I care.

I bet you were going to move to Canada if Trump was elected also.

no. I love my country, I would never run away like a little *****. its the same reason I haven't "sheltered" in place.


nothing in what I have said would lead you to believe I thought that way. im thinking maybe you are projecting. it fits with other things you have said, and wanting others to do for you...

 

[nevada]

Of all the example of deaths, those 2 have got to be the most unrelated. That's hilarious.

Capitalism has wasted more tax payer money than all starbursts wrappers and space launches combined.

it has also lifted more people out of poverty than any other system.

 

[Jernik]

Yeah funny how the GOP preaches 'let the markets decide' yet drops the majority of stimulus money as a bailout to huge corporations, many of which don't even claim American residency.

'I guess these companies should have been saving better. Not our fault they are irresponsible with their money.' Now where have I heard a similar line over and over?

With all the demonizing socialism gets, it's hilarious to see it's widespread adoption through bailouts and subsidies.

You know what frustrates me? When the shit hits the fan they all of a sudden find TRILLIONS of dollars to "save the economy", however when it comes to paying back promises to taxpayers (specifically Social Security / medicaid for the retired and disabled) there's never any money available. Just this week I read where someone brought up the impact to SS this is doing due to lost payroll tax revenue, but miraculously nobody in DC can find the funds to help out the elderly and make good on our governments promise of a sefety net (repayment) in retirement. Granted, SS is basically a ponzi scheme, but if you're going to force it on people and take their money for 40+ years you ought to step up and make it right. Granted, the time to do that isn't during a crisis, they should have been allotting extra funds over the last 10 years as payrolls and tax revenues were growing. But alas... apparently there aren't any lobbyists with bags of fat cash "campaign contributions" to get such concessions for the working class / retired folks.

I guess my point is, unbridled capitalism is not the answer. We see clearly the pitfalls of that. However, unchecked socialism isn't the answer either. We need capitalism to fuel the economy. At the same time, our society also needs certain socialistic policies to enhance our way of life and act as a safety net when we need help. Finding the balance is the trick, and right now we will never find that balance without a powerful 3rd party made up of centrists who can see the benefits and pitfalls of both systems. Until that happens, it will simply be the same power struggle to gain control - basically one side for capitalism, one side for socialism.

 

[4Reak Show]

it has also lifted more people out of poverty than any other system.

This is totally true. Happened in Rome right? Or wait, how did that turn out again?

I would argue advancements in technology and basic evolution play a much larger role in overall quality of life and education and therefore capitalism cannot hold direct credit for a decrease in poverty. 150 years ago we didn't have electricity. Sort of comparing apples to oranges.

 

[nevada]

This is totally true. Happened in Rome right? Or wait, how did that turn out again?

I would argue advancements in technology and basic evolution play a much larger role in overall quality of life and education and therefore capitalism cannot hold direct credit for a decrease in poverty. 150 years ago we didn't have electricity. Sort of comparing apples to oranges.

advancements in technology happen MUCH faster in a capitalist system. I wager we would have a LOT less available to us, if it weren't for a strong capitalist society.