How many metal shavings in auto trans pan = too many? '97 3.4L 186k miles

[PrinceValorum]

Dropped the trans pan on my 97 at 186k yesterday. I've got a whine that sounds like p/s, but only does it when in gear and under throttle. It doesn't do it revving in park/neutral.

Dropped the pan to make sure there were no big chunks before shelling out to replace the torque converter.

Do these shavings look normal for the mileage? I want to make it to at least 300k. (Fullsize link: http://i.imgur.com/FNqNpDy.jpg)

No delay shifting into reverse, always shifts smoothly, etc. When I got it at 162k I did a couple drain and fills with MaxLife synthetic ATF and after that (or I just didn't notice it prior), when the truck is cold, the very first shift it will ride out 2nd past 2500rpms, but after it gets to 3rd that first time, it's fine.

I saw on ToyotaPartsDeal the t/c is about $700, vs the "ProKing" or whatever at Napa for $140. If the trans is on the way out anyway, I'd hate to have $700 tied up in the t/c, but if the trans is good to go, I don't want to be doing annual warranty replacements on Chinese junk, either.

 

[kiana]

I'm on my second transmission in my 4Runner and also driven my buddies 2001 Limited but in all 3 of these transmission I've seen significant reverse delay. Do you literally have no reverse delay? Just curious since I don't hear much about this topic.

 

[StreetCreeper]

Dropped the trans pan on my 97 at 186k yesterday. I've got a whine that sounds like p/s, but only does it when in gear and under throttle. It doesn't do it revving in park/neutral.

Dropped the pan to make sure there were no big chunks before shelling out to replace the torque converter.

Do these shavings look normal for the mileage? I want to make it to at least 300k. (Fullsize link: http://i.imgur.com/FNqNpDy.jpg)

No delay shifting into reverse, always shifts smoothly, etc. When I got it at 162k I did a couple drain and fills with MaxLife synthetic ATF and after that (or I just didn't notice it prior), when the truck is cold, the very first shift it will ride out 2nd past 2500rpms, but after it gets to 3rd that first time, it's fine.

I saw on ToyotaPartsDeal the t/c is about $700, vs the "ProKing" or whatever at Napa for $140. If the trans is on the way out anyway, I'd hate to have $700 tied up in the t/c, but if the trans is good to go, I don't want to be doing annual warranty replacements on Chinese junk, either.

That first magnet looks a little chunky to me. The others look ok for the most part though they do seem to have a lot debris for 180K+. Also after a second look, I see a lot crud just sitting on the bottom of the pan too. This is only in comparison to how mine looked at 375k~ when I pulled the pan.

As for your tranny holding second gear longer when it's cold — this is completely normal and no need for any concern.

I also have no delay going into reverse gear and I have 421k on the original tranny.

My pan at around 375K~

​

 

[gamefreakgc]

It's hard to say... mine was more like a "metal sludge" that was on the magnets, so it was super fine dust. No actual chunks or gritty materials. It's the gritty stuff that's bad since if it recirculates it causes more scoring & damage. Kind of like throwing sand in it.

 

[LittleCaesar]

It could be OK thought that looks like more than just clutch pack wear to me. Might want to start saving pennies.

 

[jgue467]

...when the truck is cold, the very first shift it will ride out 2nd past 2500rpms, but after it gets to 3rd that first time, it's fine.
...

They all do this, designed by toyo to warm engine up faster - I wonder if it's worth everyone complaining about it. Luck. :cowboy:

 

[T4R2014]

Clean out the filter and add a Magnefine filter. I found better shift quality with Castro ATF. If everything functions fine Then I wouldn't stress this.

 

[scottydoo79]

I just when through this exact same thing. Whined when in gear and while excelerating and not at all when in park or neutral. I dropped the pan and saw the metal shavings just like in your pic. As soon as I heard the whining start I already knew it was the torque converter and the metal shavings and transmission fluid confirmed it. My transmission shifted fine. So I dropped the trans out and had the t/c rebuilt and while I had the tranny out I put a transgo shift kit in it. I'm into the trans about $290. If it was gonna be to much more than this I would have put a low mile trans in. It's been a month now and my trans shifts awesome and no more noise. Oh and my trans has 210k supercharged miles

 

[PrinceValorum]

I wanted to say thank you to everyone who responded. It sure is nice to get a warm welcome as a new member. :thumb3:

I called a transmission shop recommended by a trusted friend today to check out torque converter options (mainly to see what brand they would use, or if they would rebuild the OEM), and he said, based on my description, it sounded like either a thrust bearing on the input shaft (iirc), or a bearing in the torque converter.

He said to anticipate $1600-2300 in repairs, but it was certainly fixable. He said they send out the torque converter to be rebuilt if that ends up being the issue, and that they will not accept the torque converter if I pull it and bring it in myself. They have to do the work.

I'm too tired to think right now, I'll catch up tomorrow.

 

[gamefreakgc]

I wanted to say thank you to everyone who responded. It sure is nice to get a warm welcome as a new member. :thumb3:

I called a transmission shop recommended by a trusted friend today to check out torque converter options (mainly to see what brand they would use, or if they would rebuild the OEM), and he said, based on my description, it sounded like either a thrust bearing on the input shaft (iirc), or a bearing in the torque converter.

He said to anticipate $1600-2300 in repairs, but it was certainly fixable. He said they send out the torque converter to be rebuilt if that ends up being the issue, and that they will not accept the torque converter if I pull it and bring it in myself. They have to do the work.

I'm too tired to think right now, I'll catch up tomorrow.

GAAH don't do it!

$2300 is waaaay to much. Buy a used transmission for $500 or less and have it installed. Cheaper and less to go wrong, actually.

At least think about it. That's a lot of money.

 

[Joshks22]

Yeah thats a bit more thm i expected on tht one magnet,i have a 98 automatic with 206k on the tranny and engine,just got my tranny serviced for the first time (2nd owner) had some shavings but not tht much

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[scottydoo79]

$2300!! And I thought I was surprised when my torque converter cost $190 to rebuild and not the $170 it used to be. The inflation lately has been crazy!!

 

[thegipper]

Those magnets are definitely more metal chunky than they should be. A small amount of fine sludgy material is normal.

The whine you are getting could be from a clogged filter. Make sure you remove the filter and clean it out real good (or buy a new one) with some carb cleaner. Mine recently was whining on a cold start up and it turned out to be a totally clogged filter. Once I cleaned the filter, the noise has completely gone away and has not returned once.

The fact that you have the whine while driving and you had a fair amount of shavings in the pan may mean the TC or the tranny itself may shit the bed soon. I would clean the filter, pan and put some new fluid in it. If the whine is still there, start saving for a used tranny. IMO a used tranny is the best way to go.

PS- 1600-2300 to rebuild a TC is criminal..... You can buy an entire low mileage used tranny for 500 bucks ish and install it yourself or pay someone to do it.

 

[phattyduck]

No delay shifting into reverse, always shifts smoothly, etc. When I got it at 162k I did a couple drain and fills with MaxLife synthetic ATF and after that (or I just didn't notice it prior), when the truck is cold, the very first shift it will ride out 2nd past 2500rpms, but after it gets to 3rd that first time, it's fine.

That delayed shift when cold is normal! That is the ECU warming the engine and trans up quicker.

-Charlie

 

[PrinceValorum]

I'm on my second transmission in my 4Runner and also driven my buddies 2001 Limited but in all 3 of these transmission I've seen significant reverse delay. Do you literally have no reverse delay? Just curious since I don't hear much about this topic.

After 5 vehicles, this is my first auto, so I'm not entirely sure how one is supposed to act. I would say from the time the shifter clicks into R until the transmission is engaged is <1 second. I've not timed it, but it seems rather immediate to me.

That first magnet looks a little chunky to me. The others look ok for the most part though they do seem to have a lot debris for 180K+. Also after a second look, I see a lot crud just sitting on the bottom of the pan too. This is only in comparison to how mine looked at 375k~ when I pulled the pan.

I also have no delay going into reverse gear and I have 421k on the original tranny.

Wow, that thing is clean. And 421k :rockon: It's exactly stuff like that that made me want a 4R in the first place!

Clean out the filter and add a Magnefine filter.

Cleaned the filter, and the Megafine just arrived in the mail the other day!

I just when through this exact same thing. Whined when in gear and while excelerating and not at all when in park or neutral. I dropped the pan and saw the metal shavings just like in your pic. As soon as I heard the whining start I already knew it was the torque converter and the metal shavings and transmission fluid confirmed it. My transmission shifted fine. So I dropped the trans out and had the t/c rebuilt and while I had the tranny out I put a transgo shift kit in it. I'm into the trans about $290. If it was gonna be to much more than this I would have put a low mile trans in. It's been a month now and my trans shifts awesome and no more noise. Oh and my trans has 210k supercharged miles

Where did you have the t/c rebuilt? I'm not opposed to this option, in fact I rather like it.

GAAH don't do it!

$2300 is waaaay to much. Buy a used transmission for $500 or less and have it installed. Cheaper and less to go wrong, actually.

At least think about it. That's a lot of money.

Oh believe me, I don't want to drop that much on this. That's more than 2/3 what I paid for the truck. But, I'm in school, and the priority is school (though it may be less fun), and I need to consider all of my options. Calling a shop is always a last resort for me.

I'm not sure what to think about a used transmission. I was on the boat of "ohhh, low mileage!" before, but after my buddy got a certified low mile (88k) JDM trans that had bad synchros, I'm leery of that sort of thing. I'm unsure of the maintenance history of my truck, but I'm not confident the previous owner of any prospective transmission I'd buy maintained theirs any better, ya know?

The whine you are getting could be from a clogged filter. Make sure you remove the filter and clean it out real good (or buy a new one) with some carb cleaner. Mine recently was whining on a cold start up and it turned out to be a totally clogged filter. Once I cleaned the filter, the noise has completely gone away and has not returned once.

The fact that you have the whine while driving and you had a fair amount of shavings in the pan may mean the TC or the tranny itself may shit the bed soon. I would clean the filter, pan and put some new fluid in it. If the whine is still there, start saving for a used tranny. IMO a used tranny is the best way to go.

PS- 1600-2300 to rebuild a TC is criminal..... You can buy an entire low mileage used tranny for 500 bucks ish and install it yourself or pay someone to do it.

I cleaned out the filter when I dropped the pan. I was hoping it was the filter that was just clogged (even though having it clogged means there's a bunch of gunk of loose bits inside, equally bad), but it looked nearly spotless. I hosed it out good with brake cleaner. The only thing I found in it was a couple of pieces of FIPG from the previous pan drop, and they weren't nearly big enough to clog it.

The whine is still there after cleaning the filter and putting in new fluid. As far as the price quote, I'm not sure what all it hypothetically involved. But short of installing a *new* transmission, that's hard to swallow.

 

[scottydoo79]

The place I had my t/c rebuilt as called superior torque converter. It's in Portland OR. I've had lots of t/c's rebuilt there and never had an issue with any of them. Most all of them Audi / vw ones this is my first Toyota one.

 

[gamefreakgc]

If it helps at all, the PO replaced the transmission with a used unit (he fried it by lack of maintenance with a supercharger) and it shifts great. But I understand.

If you could get a quote on installing a used unit, it might even be half the price and any decent yard selling used parts will warranty the unit. It's worth looking into.

 

[PrinceValorum]

The place I had my t/c rebuilt as called superior torque converter. It's in Portland OR. I've had lots of t/c's rebuilt there and never had an issue with any of them. Most all of them Audi / vw ones this is my first Toyota one.

What's the turnaround on the rebuilds?

 

[PrinceValorum]

Oh man, I feel like a real dummy. I think I know where the metal shavings came from.

When I got the truck, I did a couple drain and fills on the transmission, and that's when I noticed hercules had stripped the threads out on the drain pan bolt, and I had to tap it to the next largest thread.

That makes sense then why the "hairiest" magnet is also the closest to the drain bolt. A lot of shavings came out while tapping it, but evidently not all of them.

Just thought I'd update the thread with a resolution.

 

[BrianSD_42]

How much is to much?

IMHO all you can do is start setting aside some cash for your next trans. Obviously change the fluid plenty but other that just drive it. I've got 245K miles and I wouldn't be upset or shocked if my trans went out tomorrow. I hope it doesn't but there isn't really anything I can do besides keep the fluid fresh and keep on driving.