Failed transmission questions

[mtbtim]

Maybe overkill but according to the FSM

3.4L 5VZ Flywheel Bolt | Marlin Crawler, Inc.
They require Three bond 1324 or equivalent
and Three bond 1324 is red

THREE BOND 1324 or equivalent to Loctite Blue 242 - YotaTech Forums in

So I will use Three bond 1324 or equivalent probably should be red loctite instead of blue.

As always folks can do what they wish, I defiantly would put some type of thread sealer on as the those bolts go through and if the threads are not sealed... You could get oil seeping through those threads... :/

Two totally different applications. We're not talking about the bolting of the flex plate to the crankshaft. We're talking about bolting the flex plate to the torque converter. Toyota suggests a thread locker for either the flex plate to the crankshaft or the flywheel to the crankshaft because those bolt holes in the crankshaft are through holes and there could be seepage of engine oil through the holes without some sort of thread sealant.

If you've ever tried to break free something sealed with red loctite, you'd better understand my opinion on the matter. In my opinion, a properly torqued fastener isn't going to come loose. The loctite is just extra insurance or in the case of the crankshaft bolt holes, to act as a sealant so engine oil can't get through. So, for the extra insurance, I'd rather use a lighter hold loctite so I can actually break free the bolt in the future without snapping it off.

 

[RandyBobandy]

I pulled bolts on an ls430 flex plate to torque converter yesterday with no sign of loctite on them, on the 4Runner those bolts are such a massive pain in the ass to get to you’re better off just removing them and tossing the bolts along with the auto trans in the garbage so you never have to touch them again

 

[brillo_76]

Two totally different applications. We're not talking about the bolting of the flex plate to the crankshaft. We're talking about bolting the flex plate to the torque converter. Toyota suggests a thread locker for either the flex plate to the crankshaft or the flywheel to the crankshaft because those bolt holes in the crankshaft are through holes and there could be seepage of engine oil through the holes without some sort of thread sealant.

If you've ever tried to break free something sealed with red loctite, you'd better understand my opinion on the matter. In my opinion, a properly torqued fastener isn't going to come loose. The loctite is just extra insurance or in the case of the crankshaft bolt holes, to act as a sealant so engine oil can't get through. So, for the extra insurance, I'd rather use a lighter hold loctite so I can actually break free the bolt in the future without snapping it off.

Yes. I have broken free red locate and all you had to say was it was a different application No need for 3 paragraphs justifying yourself.

My flex plate didn't have any thread locker sealant on the threads when I pulled my transmission off. Neither did the one V8 Luxus engine we just pulled in the out of the junk yard. So that's up to the rig owner granted its not a bad idea to put some on those bolts. As I sure wouldn't want them to start coming loose.

 

[Gulah]

Haven't had a ton of time to work on this but progress continues:
Got the transfer case reinstalled. Here's a photo of the improved rigging using a wood shim, was no issue installing solo (be careful with the transmission output shaft seal per Tim's video and the FSM):

I attached the flex plate to the torque converter per previous posts. I thought I would have my wife turn/hold the crank bolt for me but this also was no issue to do alone- the reach between a ratchet on the crank bolt and a torque wrench on the flex plate is not that far. I'm very grateful for the conversations around thread sealants and other technical matters with such a knowledgeable group, thanks.

I started reconnecting all the wiring for the transfer case and transmission when I was very dismayed to discover I was missing 2-3 brackets. At first I thought I left them on my core but I was able to find properly labelled bolts to attach two of them so that seemed unlikely. One bracket is the forward most bracket that the main wiring loom clips into. The second bracket is for the transmission kickdown cable, this bracket likely did go to Yota1 with my core. It may appear to be permanently attached to the kickdown cable but it is not. The third possible bracket would have been for a connector on top of the transmission. A sensor/solenoid/something on the passenger side runs to the top of the transmission where it connects to the loom, the connector has a push clip on it that seems like it could attach to a bracket. I tore apart the garage looking for anything to no avail, they must have been lost during a mid project cleanup. Anyways, off to picknpull to see what i can find.

At picknpull the first 4runner I walk up to has this conveniently lying next to it:

I quickly remove the 2 brackets I need and confirm the top bracket in question doesn't exist, not sure why the connector has the plastic clip. I also grab a lock washer for the front drive shaft I lost during reinstallation, a much less mangled transmission dipstick, and 56 valve shims from 3 motors for my now pending valve cover gasket/valve adjustment job. Score!

I've got the pan from Yota1 so tomorrow I plan on flushing the hard lines with "transmission cooler flush" and compressed air (per Nick), removing the incorrect pan, installing the hard lines while the pan is out of the way, and install the correct pan.

You may be interested to know Yota1 uses aftermarket gaskets for the transmission pan rather than the OEM FIPG. This is something I've also been doing for a decade on 2 3rd gens and haven't had a leak since.

 

[mtbtim]

Haven't had a ton of time to work on this but progress continues:
Got the transfer case reinstalled. Here's a photo of the improved rigging using a wood shim, was no issue installing solo (be careful with the transmission output shaft seal per Tim's video and the FSM):

I attached the flex plate to the torque converter per previous posts. I thought I would have my wife turn/hold the crank bolt for me but this also was no issue to do alone- the reach between a ratchet on the crank bolt and a torque wrench on the flex plate is not that far. I'm very grateful for the conversations around thread sealants and other technical matters with such a knowledgeable group, thanks.

I started reconnecting all the wiring for the transfer case and transmission when I was very dismayed to discover I was missing 2-3 brackets. At first I thought I left them on my core but I was able to find properly labelled bolts to attach two of them so that seemed unlikely. One bracket is the forward most bracket that the main wiring loom clips into. The second bracket is for the transmission kickdown cable, this bracket likely did go to Yota1 with my core. It may appear to be permanently attached to the kickdown cable but it is not. The third possible bracket would have been for a connector on top of the transmission. A sensor/solenoid/something on the passenger side runs to the top of the transmission where it connects to the loom, the connector has a push clip on it that seems like it could attach to a bracket. I tore apart the garage looking for anything to no avail, they must have been lost during a mid project cleanup. Anyways, off to picknpull to see what i can find.

At picknpull the first 4runner I walk up to has this conveniently lying next to it:

I quickly remove the 2 brackets I need and confirm the top bracket in question doesn't exist, not sure why the connector has the plastic clip. I also grab a lock washer for the front drive shaft I lost during reinstallation, a much less mangled transmission dipstick, and 56 valve shims from 3 motors for my now pending valve cover gasket/valve adjustment job. Score!

I've got the pan from Yota1 so tomorrow I plan on flushing the hard lines with "transmission cooler flush" and compressed air (per Nick), removing the incorrect pan, installing the hard lines while the pan is out of the way, and install the correct pan.

You may be interested to know Yota1 uses aftermarket gaskets for the transmission pan rather than the OEM FIPG. This is something I've also been doing for a decade on 2 3rd gens and haven't had a leak since.

Contact Yota1 and see if they have some brackets they could send your way. I bet they have buckets of extra parts like that.

 

[brillo_76]

I can check my junk transmission if you need a few clips. They might be there if you need one.

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[Gulah]

I can check my junk transmission if you need a few clips. They might be there if you need one.

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Thanks very much for the offer, but I think I'm good to go now.

 

[brillo_76]

Thanks very much for the offer, but I think I'm good to go now.

Great news..

 

[jgue467]

....pilgrimage over the Sierras to Yota1 Performance to pick up the new trans....

instructed for initial fill to target 2qts below specification, fill half of that amount, tap the starter to pump the fluid, fill the other half, bring transmission to temperature and fine tune the level.....

What brand/type of trans fluid did you go with? 12 quarts enough for trans, radiator cooler and external 699 cooler? thanks.

 

[Gulah]

What brand/type of trans fluid did you go with? 12 quarts enough for trans, radiator cooler and external 699 cooler? thanks.

I'm going with valvoline maxlife synthetic again. Regarding the quantity, I hope to have a solid answer for you by the end of the weekend. I bought 12 quarts and have some leftover in another jug, thinking it should be plenty.

 

[jgue467]

I'm going with valvoline maxlife synthetic again...

To be sure, we're talking about the Blue bottle meant for Dex III, correct?

When I read thru the back of the Red bottle it does not indicate it is for Dex III. Or is it backward compatible? Thanks.

 

[brillo_76]

valvoline maxlife is backward compatible. Granted that's what I am going to use from now on. Just make sure it's the correct one is all. We are running it in my 1997 limited now.



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[jgue467]

valvoline maxlife is backward compatible....Just make sure it's the correct one is all.

That's what I'm trying to make very certain of, cuz like Gulah I'm getting a new trans next week from Yota1. They said they'd give me a doc with suggestions when it arrives, just trying to prep.

So about 2 years ago, I drain/filled/replaced filter on my trans and used Valvoline Full Synthetic Import ATF (blue bottle), it ran much more silent until it grenaded (sounded like nuts/bolts bouncing around inside trans when I parked it). The blue bottle says its for Dex III while the Red bottle did not so I avoided it.

Now I'm wondering if using the Blue bottle is why it eventually died or if that is just a coincidence.

Either way, sounds like I need to use Valvoline Multi-Vehicle Full Synthetic like this example on amazon:
Amazon.com: Valvoline Multi-Vehicle (ATF) Full Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid 1 GA, Case of 3 : Automotive

Did I get it correct? Thanks.

 

[brillo_76]

That's what I'm trying to make very certain of, cuz like Gulah I'm getting a new trans next week from Yota1. They said they'd give me a doc with suggestions when it arrives, just trying to prep.

So about 2 years ago, I drain/filled/replaced filter on my trans and used Valvoline Full Synthetic Import ATF (blue bottle), it ran much more silent until it grenaded (sounded like nuts/bolts bouncing around inside trans when I parked it). The blue bottle says its for Dex III while the Red bottle did not so I avoided it.

Now I'm wondering if using the Blue bottle is why it eventually died or if that is just a coincidence.

Either way, sounds like I need to use Valvoline Multi-Vehicle Full Synthetic like this example on amazon:
Amazon.com: Valvoline Multi-Vehicle (ATF) Full Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid 1 GA, Case of 3 : Automotive

Did I get it correct? Thanks.

If the bottle says its a replacement for Dex its fine. I look at my old bottles if they are empty and still on my shelf.

They just have to meet the Dex specifications is all.. I really doubt the transmission fuild caused the issue of transmission failing. As even the T4 or WS just cause slipping if used.

So I will look at the bottle if one is still here. and send you a picture.

 

[jgue467]

If the bottle says its a replacement for Dex its fine. I look at my old bottles if they are empty and still on my shelf.

They just have to meet the Dex specifications is all.. I really doubt the transmission fuild caused the issue of transmission failing. As even the T4 or WS just cause slipping if used.

So I will look at the bottle if one is still here. and send you a picture.

Ok so it appears the spec sheet does say it is compatible with T, TII thru TIV and WS. (despite the bottle saying Nothing on back about it).

I contacted Valvoline and they pointed me to the spec sheet after they consulted with their experts, so all is good.

Now I'll throw this out there though I think we're still a go for using this. On the Tundras.com forum they all complain of how hot their trans run as designed, in the 220-240 range rather regularly. Apparently WS fluid is designed to run hotter all to help the trans be more efficient and slip less.

So this has to help our trans designed to run 200 or less I'm thinking. Thanks for all the help.

UPDATE: So them I called Toyo1 and asked them what fluid they suggested, guy went back to talk with techs, answer came back as 'use Toyota branded fluid'. I feel like I shouldn't have asked...

 

[brillo_76]

What I use...

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[phattyduck]

Maxlife and Dex VI fluids are thinner than a Dex-III fluid, but are compatible. I find the shifts are a bit harsher with Dex VI or Maxlife, but that's just fine by me.

-Charlie

 

[Gulah]

Ok so it appears the spec sheet does say it is compatible with T, TII thru TIV and WS. (despite the bottle saying Nothing on back about it).

I contacted Valvoline and they pointed me to the spec sheet after they consulted with their experts, so all is good.

Now I'll throw this out there though I think we're still a go for using this. On the Tundras.com forum they all complain of how hot their trans run as designed, in the 220-240 range rather regularly. Apparently WS fluid is designed to run hotter all to help the trans be more efficient and slip less.

So this has to help our trans designed to run 200 or less I'm thinking. Thanks for all the help.

UPDATE: So them I called Toyo1 and asked them what fluid they suggested, guy went back to talk with techs, answer came back as 'use Toyota branded fluid'. I feel like I shouldn't have asked...

Yes the red bottle. They had it instock at my local walmart for much less than that amazon 3 pack fyi, also summit racing had cheaper 3 packs, any parts store, etc.

I asked Nick in one of my first conversations with him on the phone and he said they use the Toyota stuff but go ahead and run the maxlife if I wanted. I didn't receive any sort of recommendation sheet from them.

When I originally decided to use the maxlife many years ago I was under the impression that it broke down at a higher temperature than the Toyota WS (synthetic vs conventional I believe), which is why I went with it. Some quick googling and I can't support that vague memory, but if you search around this site and others there's been plenty of discussion. I use maxlife in various applications in all 3 of our vehicles so I'm extra inclined to stick with it, but I'm open to a new compelling reason to go back to Toyota WS if you find one.

 

[brillo_76]

Yes the red bottle. They had it instock at my local walmart for much less than that amazon 3 pack fyi, also summit racing had cheaper 3 packs, any parts store, etc.



I asked Nick in one of my first conversations with him on the phone and he said they use the Toyota stuff but go ahead and run the maxlife if I wanted. I didn't receive any sort of recommendation sheet from them.



When I originally decided to use the maxlife many years ago I was under the impression that it broke down at a higher temperature than the Toyota WS (synthetic vs conventional I believe), which is why I went with it. Some quick googling and I can't support that vague memory, but if you search around this site and others there's been plenty of discussion. I use maxlife in various applications in all 3 of our vehicles so I'm extra inclined to stick with it, but I'm open to a new compelling reason to go back to Toyota WS if you find one.

There are technical bulletins against T4 fluid in our particular transmissions. I don't know about toyota ws fluid. [ thats made by Castrol import for toyota]

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[brillo_76]

Maxlife and Dex VI fluids are thinner than a Dex-III fluid, but are compatible. I find the shifts are a bit harsher with Dex VI or Maxlife, but that's just fine by me.



-Charlie

Oh that's what's causing the sharper shifts. Good to know as I thought it was just the fresh fluid doing it.

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