How much better do the brakes get with the Tundra upgrade?

[JayRolla]

IMO it wasnt a huge upgrade. Not like when I added huge brakes and rotors to my smaller turbo cars (3000gt or evo brakes to Talon/Eclipse). I also had new stock brakes before. A lot of people install tundra after there stock tired out brakes are worthless making the upgrade feel so much better.

 

[djskorch]

Anyone else warped their TBU rotors? I purchased OEM Toyota rotors when I did my upgrade. I did a bit or rallying up in the mountains with my runner and warped the tundra rotors pretty bad. I recently went with some EBC ultimax slotted sport rotors and EBC green stuff pads so hopefully they will last a bit better but don't be fooled, you can still warp the tundra rotors as well if you run em hard like I have.

 

[JayRolla]

Anyone else warped their TBU rotors? I purchased OEM Toyota rotors when I did my upgrade. I did a bit or rallying up in the mountains with my runner and warped the tundra rotors pretty bad. I recently went with some EBC ultimax slotted sport rotors and EBC green stuff pads so hopefully they will last a bit better but don't be fooled, you can still warp the tundra rotors as well if you run em hard like I have.

If heating them up and you hit some water/mud any rotor can warp.

 

[NJT4R]

I don't have a method to quantify the improvement of the 231 vs. stock. However the 231's are very noticeably better in feel, power, performance. They inspire confidence where stock does not.

 

[djskorch]

If heating them up and you hit some water/mud any rotor can warp.

No mud or water. Just pushing the truck to its limits. I do desert racing and I hadn't been to a race in a bit so I was having some fun in the runner to cure the itch. 4lo with a supercharged runner with coil overs on mountain roads can be almost as fun as a built buggy in the desert. lol

 

[JayRolla]

No mud or water. Just pushing the truck to its limits. I do desert racing and I hadn't been to a race in a bit so I was having some fun in the runner to cure the itch. 4lo with a supercharged runner with coil overs on mountain roads can be almost as fun as a built buggy in the desert. lol

Theres your problem! Your driving your truck like a race car. You know better than anyone. Those brakes not made for that at all. LOL. Thats coming from a guy who has street/drag raced for his entire life. No more street though. Grew out of that. LOL.

 

[Dephcon]

When I first did the 231mm upgrade I wasn't all that impressed, but after re-bleeding the system (flushed all the old fluid out) and did the bedding process, they feel a lot better. There are tons of hills where I live and it rains most of the time (Wetcoast) so the stock discs didn't last too long before warping. I had once incident coming down one of the local hills and attempting to stop, had the pedal to the floor and I still wasn't stopping, abs was shuttering away and truck was shaking. After the TBU I have never had an issue like that. Yeah, it can be tough to notice a difference in every braking situation, but when it counts, I trust the Tundra brakes more than I trust the stock 4runner's.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Did you complete a series of hard braking runs to 'set' the pads? New pads need to be hammered on a couple, five, times in order to ensure they won't be glazed over.

Almost sounds like you've got pads which aren't gripping as much as they should... Perhaps a brake booster?

The difference with 231mm calipers is noticeable. They stop my 35" MT's just fine.

He's got it spot on. If you want your pedal to feel firm, then bed the brakes. As in 10 straight 60 mph to 10 mph stops and the drive it around slowly without stopping to let it cool. Pedal will be more firm.

Also, I had to bleed the brake booster. Per the FSM, you press the pedal firmly and quickly 40+ times then start the car. Let it run for 30 sec and do it again, and again. Then do it 20+ times with the car on. I then bled the brakes and even more air came out and firmed them up. Adjusting the brake pedal also works, but the jam nut on the brake shaft is REALLY hard to get off! Unless you are a contortionist.

I've noticed a huge difference on mine. Then again I had the original pads and rotors on mine. The pads were so thin I could hardly tell they were there!

 

[absalom]

I'm doing this mod tonight, can't wait ... pitching a tent in my pants just thinking about!

 

[sjwelna]

I will second that bedding in brakes does help. The best way to do it is to swap brakes (pads/calipers/rotors/whatever), and bleed system out. Go bed in brakes like others have said, ~10 60-10mph slow downs as hard as you can WITHOUT triggering the abs (will put uneven pad deposits on the rotors). I don't always do 10, it depends on the car/pads/fluid. Basically I go out into the country and do 60-10mph hard slow downs until they fade and you feel like you have flintstones brakes with the pedal on the floor. With fresh pads I can usually have them smoking by about the 4th or 5th stop, don't worry this is normal as you off-gas the new pads. I usually only do 1-2 at that point and then drive around for about 10 minutes without coming to a full stop (or if I have to, pop it in neutral and take my foot off the brakes so it doesn't deposit pad material in one spot) to cool them completely off. Then, once the pedal has firmed back up to normal, I repeat the 60-10mph routine until it fades a second time, and then drive and let them cool off again. After this, pull it back into the garage and REBLEED the brakes. If you got the brakes hot enough to fade like that, the fluid has probably boiled if only a little bit. Rebleeding will purge any bubbles created in the bedding process so you have fresh new fluid behind the brakes again. Just sharing my 'new brakes' procedure, this is typically what is recommended and it works great.

Other things that have helped firm up a soft pedal has been increasing the diameter of the brake master cylinder piston. I did this on my previous subaru legacy (2008), swapped out the OEM MBC which had a 1" piston for one out of an STi (1 1/16" piston) and it defintely helped. Also setting the pre-travel of the brake pedal helps so there isn't as much take-up. :rockon:

Best brake fluid out there I have used is ATE superblue. Second has been Amsoil, and a close third has been regular old valvoline synthetic Dot 3/4. Don't use the other crap fluid, it boils at lower temps and has a worse pedal feel. You think it wouldn't make that much of a difference but it does. I have Amsoil brake fluid in my car now, will purge it out with superblue soon, makes fluid changes easy since you know it's all purged out when the color changes. ATE makes a super-amber, so you can use the same fluid but use the two colors to know when you've purged out the fluid completely by alternating colors used. Pretty slick.

-Steve

 

[mirraman]

Where did you get your calipers? Some rebuilt calipers are junk. Pad material will also determine your stopping power. With the larger rotors, you can install more aggressive pads since heat will be less of an issue.

Agree with above posters about keeping the rear brakes adjusted up and also blow out the brake dust while the rear drums are off.

I bought them from Amazon. Full set of Calipers, Rotors, and Pads.

 

[mtndave]

I bought them from Amazon. Full set of Calipers, Rotors, and Pads.

Great and lots of good advice on this thread on how to bleed and bed the brakes. Good luck on getting your brakes dialed in.

I plan on doing the TBU once my EBC Green Kevlar pads wear out, which currently works very well. Saved me from a few deer hits.

 

[mirraman]

Did you complete a series of hard braking runs to 'set' the pads? New pads need to be hammered on a couple, five, times in order to ensure they won't be glazed over.

Almost sounds like you've got pads which aren't gripping as much as they should... Perhaps a brake booster?

The difference with 231mm calipers is noticeable. They stop my 35" MT's just fine.

He's got it spot on. If you want your pedal to feel firm, then bed the brakes. As in 10 straight 60 mph to 10 mph stops and the drive it around slowly without stopping to let it cool. Pedal will be more firm.

Also, I had to bleed the brake booster. Per the FSM, you press the pedal firmly and quickly 40+ times then start the car. Let it run for 30 sec and do it again, and again. Then do it 20+ times with the car on. I then bled the brakes and even more air came out and firmed them up. Adjusting the brake pedal also works, but the jam nut on the brake shaft is REALLY hard to get off! Unless you are a contortionist.

I've noticed a huge difference on mine. Then again I had the original pads and rotors on mine. The pads were so thin I could hardly tell they were there!

I will second that bedding in brakes does help. The best way to do it is to swap brakes (pads/calipers/rotors/whatever), and bleed system out. Go bed in brakes like others have said, ~10 60-10mph slow downs as hard as you can WITHOUT triggering the abs (will put uneven pad deposits on the rotors). I don't always do 10, it depends on the car/pads/fluid. Basically I go out into the country and do 60-10mph hard slow downs until they fade and you feel like you have flintstones brakes with the pedal on the floor. With fresh pads I can usually have them smoking by about the 4th or 5th stop, don't worry this is normal as you off-gas the new pads. I usually only do 1-2 at that point and then drive around for about 10 minutes without coming to a full stop (or if I have to, pop it in neutral and take my foot off the brakes so it doesn't deposit pad material in one spot) to cool them completely off. Then, once the pedal has firmed back up to normal, I repeat the 60-10mph routine until it fades a second time, and then drive and let them cool off again. After this, pull it back into the garage and REBLEED the brakes. If you got the brakes hot enough to fade like that, the fluid has probably boiled if only a little bit. Rebleeding will purge any bubbles created in the bedding process so you have fresh new fluid behind the brakes again. Just sharing my 'new brakes' procedure, this is typically what is recommended and it works great.

Other things that have helped firm up a soft pedal has been increasing the diameter of the brake master cylinder piston. I did this on my previous subaru legacy (2008), swapped out the OEM MBC which had a 1" piston for one out of an STi (1 1/16" piston) and it defintely helped. Also setting the pre-travel of the brake pedal helps so there isn't as much take-up. :rockon:

Best brake fluid out there I have used is ATE superblue. Second has been Amsoil, and a close third has been regular old valvoline synthetic Dot 3/4. Don't use the other crap fluid, it boils at lower temps and has a worse pedal feel. You think it wouldn't make that much of a difference but it does. I have Amsoil brake fluid in my car now, will purge it out with superblue soon, makes fluid changes easy since you know it's all purged out when the color changes. ATE makes a super-amber, so you can use the same fluid but use the two colors to know when you've purged out the fluid completely by alternating colors used. Pretty slick.

-Steve

The one thing I haven't done is bed the brakes. It is something I am not familiar with, and frankly, this is the first time of heard of it. I think I'm going to change out the brake fluid too. It was quite cold this morning and the brakes were worse until they heated up!

Thank you so much, Everyone, for all the help and advice!!!!

 

[Rock_Rat]

Use the Search Feature on here

The one thing I haven't done is bed the brakes. It is something I am not familiar with, and frankly, this is the first time of heard of it. I think I'm going to change out the brake fluid too. It was quite cold this morning and the brakes were worse until they heated up!

Thank you so much, Everyone, for all the help and advice!!!!

Be sure and use the search feature on here before doing any mods. There's a ton of experienced guys out here who have generously given back to this t4r community. [MENTION=44220]BigFishAllDay[/MENTION] devoted hours to this mod. Check out his great tutorial. Read...read...read...contribute when you can.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ements-231mm-13wl-tundra-calipers-rotors.html

After I did the mod, I went on I-5 and bed my brakes in and they work fantastic. The most noticeable difference for me is my mountain road where I live. I no longer "need" to drop into 2nd and pump the brakes on the long downhill runs.

 

[mirraman]

Be sure and use the search feature on here before doing any mods. There's a ton of experienced guys out here who have generously given back to this t4r community. [MENTION=44220]BigFishAllDay[/MENTION] devoted hours to this mod. Check out his great tutorial. Read...read...read...contribute when you can.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ements-231mm-13wl-tundra-calipers-rotors.html

After I did the mod, I went on I-5 and bed my brakes in and they work fantastic. The most noticeable difference for me is my mountain road where I live. I no longer "need" to drop into 2nd and pump the brakes on the long downhill runs.

Good lookin out man, but I actually did reference that wrote up. One of the best I've seen. I will absolutely post any custom mods I do on my rig. I used to post dBm all the time in Tacomaworld. I'm still be here and not very familiar with the 3rd gen runners. I had a 2nd gen Taco. My wife have a 4th gen runner, so it actually easier for me to do work on it!

Doing this brake upgrade was a great way to get my feet wet with the new platform

 

[mirraman]

Drilled slotted rotors have been proven to have less stopping power due to reduced surface area. Their advantage is better heat dissipation.

would you perhaps have a reference? From the research I've looked up, the best for us mainly daily drivers, slotted are the right ones. Drilled are only for dissipating heat They do not improve stopping force. The slots however provide a better surface and are good for clearing debris. also the drilled and slotted rotors offer a continuously even braking surface.

When I need new rotors, I'll be picking up some slotted only ones. They seem to be the best for my application.

My main reference:

http://home.wavecable.com/~vtucker/A4/rotors.pdf

 

[vanion2]

would you perhaps have a reference? From the research I've looked up, the best for us mainly daily drivers, slotted are the right ones. Drilled are only for dissipating heat They do not improve stopping force. The slots however provide a better surface and are good for clearing debris. also the drilled and slotted rotors offer a continuously even braking surface.

When I need new rotors, I'll be picking up some slotted only ones. They seem to be the best for my application.

My main reference:

http://home.wavecable.com/~vtucker/A4/rotors.pdf

http://honda-tech.com/honda-civic-d...rs-better-than-cross-drilled-slotted-1437513/
Forgive me for referencing the Honda Tech forum but this post explains exactly why blanks are better than slotted or drilled.

In summary the modern day technology in pads and rotors for DD applications negates any benefits you might possibly imagine you would get from slotted and especially drilled rotors. This has been well documented and proven. Save your money for better tech.

 

[mirraman]

WHY Blank rotors are better than cross drilled and/or slotted - Honda-Tech
Forgive me for referencing the Honda Tech forum but this post explains exactly why blanks are better than slotted or drilled.

In summary the modern day technology in pads and rotors for DD applications negates any benefits you might possibly imagine you would get from slotted and especially drilled rotors. This has been well documented and proven. Save your money for better tech.

not trying to start an arguement here, but the link only sent me to people's opinions our people posting links to other people's opinions. one poster did say that even Ferrari would admit to only using the drilled rotors for looks. Unfortunately, I don't know any of the engineers at Ferrari to check the validity of this.

 

[vanion2]

not trying to start an arguement here, but the link only sent me to people's opinions our people posting links to other people's opinions. one poster did say that even Ferrari would admit to only using the drilled rotors for looks. Unfortunately, I don't know any of the engineers at Ferrari to check the validity of this.

Go to your favorite search bar (like Google) and type in blank versus slotted rotors. You will get hundreds of links to forums and even a few articles stating what was summarized on the link I provided above.

Any time you reduce the rotor surface area you reduce braking distance. With the modern pad you don't get gas build up like you did in the past so unless you are trying to reduce rotational mass weight or going for looks slotted rotors offer no real world advantages.

If that isn't enough for you then I would suggest referring to the laws of physics and experimental data you can perform with your 4runner. Get 2 sets of identical pads, one set of slotted rotors and one set of blanks. Preferably made by the same manufacturer. Then perform a series of brakes from a fixed speed with a sample of about 100 on each set and plot the braking distance. You will have a definitive answer and can report your findings here. I bet you an internet cookie you will find blanks do the job, cost less, don't eat through your pads as much, and can be resurfaced, something you would have difficulty doing with slotted rotors. Just make sure you are running new brake fluid and bleeding your brake lines with each change and make sure your rear pads or shoes are changed as well so as to keep your sampling clean.

At the end of the day it's your truck and this is just the internet. If you are happy with slotted rotors then you made the right choice. Just because I wouldn't do it doesn't make me right or you wrong.

 

[BrianSD_42]

not trying to start an arguement here, but the link only sent me to people's opinions our people posting links to other people's opinions. one poster did say that even Ferrari would admit to only using the drilled rotors for looks. Unfortunately, I don't know any of the engineers at Ferrari to check the validity of this.

This is a very old debate and yes a Google search will take you to other forums with people saying that blanks are the best.

I understand the criticism of drilled and slotted but I have to say that since my mechanic installed my current setup of stock calipers with a performance pad and drilled and slotted Brembo rotors I have been nothing but happy with the enormous improvement.

I have run the truck with "OEM Blanks" and I've run it with Brembo Drilled & Slotted with a performance pad and I can assure you that the upgrade to Drilled & Slotted Brembo (non-Tundra size) rotors was very very noticeable.

Perhaps you will say that it is all the pad....