This confuses me, is it sensationalized in the presentation of events like CT or CO shootings? Or are you talking about some celebrity advocating gun control?
Hypocrisy at its worse (rant warning)
- Thread starter KCcarguy
- Start date
This confuses me, is it sensationalized in the presentation of events like CT or CO shootings? Or are you talking about some celebrity advocating gun control?
rebelbowtie
New member
Dusty Driftwood
New member
So, you expected a single thread on a 4Runner blog to change the way things are done nationwide? No, of course you didn't, because that would be ludicrous.
Well then, what did you expect? My opinion is that you expected to blow off some steam with your "rant" and get your frustrated opinion out there. Low and behold, other people that feel passionately about the topics contained within have an opinion that they wanted to share and not everyone agreed. This doesn't sum up America in the 21st Century, it sums up humanity.
People are going to disagree and, when they run out of rational arguments to make their point, they'll revert to something less sophisticated. I agree that there is a "problem" with America. Scratch that, hundreds of problems with America. But to assume that a viable, realistic solution is going to be presented on a vehicle blog and passed through congress in the matter of a week can be considered perfect examples of unrealistic expectations or insanity.
The most intelligent words in this thread are from engineer1 "personal responsibility" Until people can be responsible for themselves and do the right thing, it doesn't matter if we're talking about rocks, semi-automatic machine guns, video games, movies, pornography, etc. there will always be a "problem" That said, its more fun to talk/think about porn than guns, so thread drift away...
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-JD-
New member
+1. QFT. I always say that you know someone is losing an argument when they resort to personal attacks.
While correctly noting the role of personal responsibility, one must recognize that not everyone will exercise it. It reminds me of the following:
“If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.”
― James Madison, The Federalist Papers
I'm a gun owner, but one who loathes the NRA and can't stand the disingenuous and sophomoric pretenses so many gun owners forward for owning their guns. It is enough for me to say "I like guns and target shooting." I don't need to wrap myself up in misconstrued and incomplete understandings of the Constitution or the 2nd Amendment. I also don't need to somehow pretend that my ownership is what keeps 'Merica free; or worse, I am somehow more patriotic for it. You know what sucks the fun out of a day at the gun range for me? Creepy gun nuts who wandered off the compound. Ugh.
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KCcarguy
New member
I'm with you in the gun nuts thing. I quit going to guns shows because they creep me out. But, you have to remember. The NRA nuts are there to counterbalance the nuts who think guns should be banned completely. Meanwhile, most of us lie somewhere in the middle.
Thai
Elite Member
The difference is that we don't have money & prostitutes thrown our way from lobbyists....
got556
New member
I'll just say this. The 2nd Amendment is the single most important Amendment there is. It keeps all the others in check...
A government that does not fear its people is a government that does at is pleases. Welcome to the 21st Century United States.
And I work for the DOJ...before anyone chastises me or calls me a nut.
A government that does not fear its people is a government that does at is pleases. Welcome to the 21st Century United States.
And I work for the DOJ...before anyone chastises me or calls me a nut.
got556
New member
Because I work for the federal government and see this BS up front and center every damn day. So I guess you could call it a qualifier for my statement. And I also work for the government that likes to wipe their asses with the Constitution and would do every illegal thing in their power to see to it that the 2nd Amendment no longer exist.
shadow247
New member
There's a reason the right to own firearms is only 2nd to free speech. You can't have one without the other. Penn and Teller did a great piece on gun control, and recently Penn was on the Wendy Williams show debating 3 of the most ignorant people I have seen. Enjoy....
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0XrNzE39J8E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1KvtS0QHnAc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0XrNzE39J8E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1KvtS0QHnAc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I'll pass. Isn't suggesting people watch stupid video the equivelent of saying something like "This is the worst beer I've ever tasted, here try it?"
But gun control and gun laws don't necessarily equate to a wholesale ban on ownership (some would like to scare you into believing they are the same). Don't confuse the issues. Should any person be able to own any weapon of their choice? I think most people would think that absurd. I also think most people would think it unacceptable to ban all firearms. The question is what are prudent and appropriate limitations and what is the role of the federal versus state government in regulating ownership, with due recognition of the Constitution?
People wrap themselves up in the flag and constitution when it suits their purposes, but at the end of the day very few people know much about the Constitution. Mostly little more than a hand full of provisions from the Bill of Rights.
People wrap themselves up in the flag and constitution when it suits their purposes, but at the end of the day very few people know much about the Constitution. Mostly little more than a hand full of provisions from the Bill of Rights.
KCcarguy
New member
You are right. I just think gun control is misguided. It won't stop criminals and psychopaths from doing bad things....or even having guns for that matter.
What bothers me most is that there is such a single-minded focus on gun control. It's heartbreaking and frustrating as hell to see something like this happen, and people (including myself) want to see something done about it. I believe there are lots of things that contribute to this kind of crime: Poor mental healthcare and screening, poor security in schools, violence in the media, instant celebrity of the shooter, poor parenting.....just to name a few. Yet the focus seems to be only on guns. It seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to me. I'm all for new laws, but why not have a comprehensive approach?
I also worry about the slippery slope of gun control. "Assault weapons" first. Then what's next? Handguns? Ok. Then what happens when a shotgun is used in a massacre?
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rebelbowtie
New member
forgot the underscore
shadow247
New member
This has already played out in the UK. It ended with an out-right ban on firearms. Now you have otherwise law-abiding citizens going to prison for defending themselves against attacks in their own home using weapons that were once legal.
Then there is this total failure of justice....
Summary - A man is going to prison for turning in a shotgun that had been discarded on his property.
Ex-soldier faces jail for handing in gun | This is Surrey
A couple of points: It is possible to be a "pro 2A" gun owner like myself and be in favor of prudent gun control measures that are non- violative of the second amendment. I believe these can actually (in the long term) help preserve my rights to ownership.
Emotion and fear are the cornerstones of the new NRA's advertising and profiteering machine. And, unfortunately, many of their more extreme members parrot NRA propaganda and leave folks like myself at least somewhat stained by their garbage. I didn't leave them, they left me about 25 years ago. Just because they are vitriolic in their discourse, doesn't mean they care more about the Bill of Rights, They certainly haven't taken the time to understand it.
They can pry my iPhone from my cold dead hands (or buy it on EBay when the iPhone 6 comes out).
