I hate stealerships

[pipspeak]

Just took my 4runner into the shop for a routine service and to have some specific problems fixed under warranty -- rattling from the front end when going over small bumps and chirping drivebelt when the car is cold and wet.

Needless to say, the dealship was "unable to reproduce" those noises. So now I'm $120 poorer ($60 per investigation) and none the wiser.

The chirping drivebelt I'm not too surprised about... short of leaving my car outside the dealship overnight when it rains, or leaving it parked there in the rain for the best part of a day, I can see it might be tough. But I'd have thought they'd at least look at the belt and tensioners to check they're OK and well adjusted. Nope.

And the rattling noise you'd have to be deaf not to hear. But somehow they couldn't hear it even after allegedly driving the car.

Best part is that if I were to now leave the car with them overnight next week and the drive belt did indeed start chirping in the morning they would still not refund me the $60 they charged me today for looking into it. Does that sound right?

 

[pipspeak]

The way the warranty works AFAIK is there's no deductable if a warranty-related problem is found but there is a small fee if no problem is found or the problem is not covered by the warranty.

That's why "no deductable" is a bit of a misnomer, and why intermittent or hard to diagnose problems are a royal pain when it comes to warranties.

 

[toto]

Needless to say, not all Toyota dealers work that way.

There probably isn't a set corporate policy on that, but it's worth a call to Toyota to find out (1-800-331-4331). If the answer is, "it's at the dealer's discretion", then it's time to find another dealer.

And I agree, dealers can be a total PITA to work with. Some are better than others... the worst ones are those that try to maximize the amount of money they squeeze out of you this instant, rather than giving you a break now and then to build a long-term relationship (which will be more profitable for them in the long run).

 

[pipspeak]

Rest assured that will be my first and last visit to that dealership (Daly City Toyota, eat your heart out).

The bozo was even dumb (or a-hole) enough to tell me that he knew what the problem was from my description of the squeaking belt (a sticking tensioner) but because he couldn't actually hear or see the tensioner sticking he could not do anything about it under warranty.

However, he lubed my sunroof rails for free. Go figure.

All in all I came away feeling grubby... much like one feels after dealing with sleazy used car salesmen. Yuck.

 

[spud72]

If the rattle is that easy to hear, you should have taken either a tech or at least a service writer for a quick spin if you could.

Thats BS.

 

[Uneek]

Rest assured that will be my first and last visit to that dealership (Daly City Toyota, eat your heart out).

As in City Toyota on top of the hill? No wonder why my cousin calls them Shitty Toyota. Told my friend NOT to buy from them.

They're horrible, esp the jack@$$ internet sales rep. They're sales dept is a rip off. I hate that dealer with a passion and avoid them like a plague. And the funniest part of it all, was I went on a test drive with them when I was shopping and the truck ran out of gas. LOL

 

[pipspeak]

If the rattle is that easy to hear, you should have taken either a tech or at least a service writer for a quick spin if you could.

It is easy to hear, which is why I was confident they'd hear it! The service writer allegedly drove it himself, too. In hindsight I could have been far more specific (rough road, open window, slow speed so road noise doesn't drown it out, etc.)

 

[pipspeak]

As in City Toyota on top of the hill? No wonder why my cousin calls them Shitty Toyota. Told my friend NOT to buy from them.

Shitty Toyota... LOL

I think there's only one City Toyota... at Mission/John Daly Blvd. You discovered the sales dept. sucks, so now I can add that the service dept. sucks too.

Next I'll try SF Toyota. See if they're any better. I just want a dealership that'll talk intelligently before writing up a service order to avoid another Snafu.

 

[JungleJim]

However, he lubed my sunroof rails for free. Go figure.

No he didn't. You paid $120.

I've never heard of such a thing. Let me get this straight....If they find the problem, they fix it for free under warranty. If they don't find the problem, they charge you $60? I don't think so.

I've never paid for anything except general maintenance under warranty for any vehicle. For example, I was having an issue on a Honda transmission in my wife's CRV. The dealership could not reproduce it, but they gave me a 75,000 "good will" warranty on the transmission. Instead of charging a fee for something they couldn't find, instead they gave me an extended warranty on the transmission.

I would've just walked out without paying and told them to take me to court in your case.

Since you've already paid the $120, I would go back and tell them that they WILL find and fix the problems. And after they find the problems, tell them to refund the $120. If they refuse, let them know you will be contacting Toyota, the BBB, and your state attorney general's office about the situation and the dealerships business practices.

Another option...take your 4Runner to a good dealership and let them find and fix your issues under warranty. Then take the paperwork back to the original dealership and demand a refund. If they refuse, take them to small claims court. Don't let them get away with this.

 

[Kmvreter]

There probably isn't a set corporate policy on that, but it's worth a call to Toyota to find out (1-800-331-4331). If the answer is, "it's at the dealer's discretion", then it's time to find another dealer.

Paying for a warranty problem investigation. Never heard of it and it sounds absurd. These guys are lowlife. Call Toyota as toto suggests and let us know what the deal is. Did you pay by credit card? Then put a stop payment dispute on it with the card company.

 

[Uneek]

Shitty Toyota... LOL

I think there's only one City Toyota... at Mission/John Daly Blvd. You discovered the sales dept. sucks, so now I can add that the service dept. sucks too.

Next I'll try SF Toyota. See if they're any better. I just want a dealership that'll talk intelligently before writing up a service order to avoid another Snafu.

Yeah that's the dealer, Shitty. I hate them. Did I mention that already? :

SF Toyota should be ok. The service writer at Geary and 2nd, Raymond Lee or something is a dick though. The rest of the staff is nice. I spoke to the service manager during new owner orientation/welcome (just went for the snacks after work) from the Van Ness location about getting a TSB (A/C magnetic clutch relay) done for my Camry because it has the relay in question. The SM there said it would be ok and just bring the car in. So I take the car there and they don't have a problem fixing it, but until that dickhead Raymond butts his head in my business and says "TSB is only if the problem is present, we're not obligated to fix it because you want to. Toyota doesn't pay for it if we replace parts that aren't defective." I drop the car off anyways and I was pissed off, getting ready to write to the owner and Toyota corporate. But when I return to pick up the car, the tech notes said, "Found mag-clutch to be defective part and replaced according to TSB." SF Toyota said they would charge me $120 for a diagnostic on a leak I had with the SnugTop on my Tacoma if I tampered or modified it, which I didn't and I didn't pay. I don't think you should've been charged and at best, they should only have wasted your time and say "no problem found or unable to duplicate problem."

 

[HiVel-JR]

Can't live with em can't live without em....

But, I hate most dealerships too...
Don't feel bad, maybe the dealerships have guys that read this forum and laugh at all of us or it could be the other way around...

 

[toto]

Yeah... the dealers must have stories about us.
"So this guy comes in all pissed off because of a ticking noise he's hearing whenever he drives his truck. He's got a handful of TSB's and a couple of printouts from Toyota Techinfo about what he thinks the problem is, and essentially demands over $1000 worth of parts and labor. So I get in the truck, drive it back to my work area, and shut it off. Even without the engine running, the ticking is still there! It turns out he left an analog wrist watch in the center console, and the crappy thing was loud enough to hear it over the engine, the radio, and the A/C!! I checked whether any of the TSB's he had were really necessary, and did one of them just to book some labor under warranty and get paid for the job. And I left the wrist watch in a plastic bag on the dash!"

 

[HiVel-JR]

Great story is it true?
All I have to say is...

Heeelarious....

 

[toto]

It's not true, I made it up.
But I've often wondered what the dealer thinks when I wander in with TSB's and try to do their job for them.

 

[charlier180]

Can't live with em can't live without em....

But, I hate most dealerships too...
Don't feel bad, maybe the dealerships have guys that read this forum and laugh at all of us or it could be the other way around...

I have friends that work at dealerships of other automakers
The stories they tell me about dealing with customers and fixing their cars can be funny. Some here might be downright shocked by the sheer number of customers who abuse their vehicles or do something very stupid when driving and scream and yell that it is the dealership's fault.

The many stories my friends have told me are too numerous to post here but I have no dobut that some of you would be rolling on the floor laughing at them or saying to yourself "how stupid if this vehicle owner?"

I agree with others here that the original poster should not have been charged for the "warranty" work under normal circumstances. Just wondering, was this the first time you had a dealer look into these particular problems? Was this the first time you had work performed under warranty for this vehicle?

In your post you state "But I'd have thought they'd at least look at the belt and tensioners to check they're OK and well adjusted. Nope. " Did you, in fact, watch the tech work on your vehicle the entire time it was in the shop before making that statement? If you did not watch the entire time how do you know he did not look at the belt and tensioner? Did you by chance offer (or strongly/firmly suggest) to take a drive with the service writer so you could make sure he heard the rattling noise?

If this dealership does not meet your needs then by all means find another dealership that does.

 

[Uneek]

Yeah... the dealers must have stories about us.
"So this guy comes in all pissed off because of a ticking noise he's hearing whenever he drives his truck. He's got a handful of TSB's and a couple of printouts from Toyota Techinfo about what he thinks the problem is, and essentially demands over $1000 worth of parts and labor. So I get in the truck, drive it back to my work area, and shut it off. Even without the engine running, the ticking is still there! It turns out he left an analog wrist watch in the center console, and the crappy thing was loud enough to hear it over the engine, the radio, and the A/C!! I checked whether any of the TSB's he had were really necessary, and did one of them just to book some labor under warranty and get paid for the job. And I left the wrist watch in a plastic bag on the dash!"

What a bone head! Toyotas are too quiet, he should go get himself a clunker so he can't hear his watch. :bash:

In this case if my dealer SF Toyota or even Shitty Toyota charged me for $120 diagnostic fee, I will gladly pay since it's due to my carelessness. But not I'm the type who wants to make visits to the service department for the heck of it. I got better things to do with my time and rather have my truck driven by me than some teenager oil changer tech shuffling cars around the service bay.

 

[pipspeak]

In your post you state "But I'd have thought they'd at least look at the belt and tensioners to check they're OK and well adjusted. Nope. " Did you, in fact, watch the tech work on your vehicle the entire time it was in the shop before making that statement?

Believe it or not I actually had the service writer tell me that he specifically told the tech NOT to check the tensioners "because he wants to be able to hear the noise so ot can be fixed under warranty"

And that's why I have come to hate this dealership so much after just one visit. That attitude is utterly sleazy IMO and a classic example of terrible customer service. It roughly translates to "No I'm not going to check the obvious so I can charge you $60 and then have you come back again to try and have the issue fixed later"

I could understand if it's some silly problem that was of my causing and is borerline warranty. But drive belts are not supposed to squeal under any circumstances, period. It's something that is so cut and dried (either it squeals or it doesn't) and so obviously covered under the warranty that a dealer should trust my word that it happens and check the tensioners and pulleys.

The rattling issue is slightly different. I did offer to go for a drive with the service writer but he couldn't go at that moment and I couldn't stick around for an hour so it didn't work out. All I wanted to check was that there were no loose bolts or bushings... and I told him that. I would have been happy to pay $60 for peace of mind. Instead he said he couldn't hear the rattle and checked nothing. So I paid $60 for him to take a 10 minute drive.

I also checked with Toyota and the official word is that dealerships are independent and what they charge (or don't charge) for diagnosing warranty-related problems is at their discretion.

So definitely time for a new dealership.

 

[jpalaska]

Will Toyota dealerships typically allow the customer in the service area to watch the technician work on his car?
Up here the typically don't allow that, citing insurance restrictions as the excuse to keep customers away from technicians.

 

[Threxx~]

I'm already pissed at my Toyota dealer for wasting my time by making me get up early two different mornings, drop my car off, pay a 30 dollar rental car fee, and come in that evening only to hear that they could not duplicate a symptom that occurs almost more often than it doesn't.

But if they tried to tack on a 'diagnosis fee' for a warranty repair that they are too inept to diagnose? Man... I'd be livid.

If they get money from you for NOT finding the problem then what inspiration do they have to even FIND the problem? I wonder if a year from now something related to your initial symptoms ends up failing or at least the symptoms get much worse to the point where even the dealership can't pretend they didn't find/hear/see anything wrong. I wonder if then they'll refund that fee?

It amazes me that my local Toyota dealer is among the worst of all of the 'standard brands' in terms of dealer service, yet my local Lexus dealer flat-out destroys any of the other luxury brand dealers in terms of service.

It's probably not like that everywhere, though... I'm sure there are some lexus dealers with crappy service (relative to other luxury brands) and Toyota dealers who are the best of all the other dealers in the area.

It makes me want to buy a lexus next time (again) instead of a Toyota to get the better service but then part of me thinks "that's probably why they treat me so poorly is to get me to pay more for the lexus service with the next vehicle I buy". lol So then I'd be doing exactly what they wanted me to the whole time!