I need help understanding lift kits

[Tony Tacoma]

I'm not very mechanically inclined. I've done some searches to try to determine what the best lift kit for my 2007 4runner would be (no xreas). I do understand the difference between a body lift and suspension lift. My research has revealed very conflicting results. What I want is a lift of approx 2-3 inches so I can put bigger tires. I do use my TR4 for off roading. I'm also not concerned about saving a few hundred $$$. I'm willing to spend more to put less strain on the vehicle components and also don't want to sacrice my ride quality. Some forums say just buy new shocks, other spacers. What set up should I go with? What is the best? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[SP Jon M3]

There are basically three types of suspension lifts for the 4Runners:

1st. Spacers. This is the least expensive method, and also will produce the harshest ride quality because you are increasing the spring load. This is also the least optimal kit for off-roading because of the increased spring tension.

2nd. OME type setup. OME has a spring shock replacement combo. This is a few hundred dollars more, but give a superior ride quality over the spacer option. This is because of the spring rate shock valve combo and they are made for the increased ride height.

3rd. Coilover option. This is really for the front only, this will give you the best performance out of the bunch. This has a much better valving and spring rates. A typical Coilover set for the front will range from about $800-1100. If you get a quality setup the ride is equal or improved over stock. Another advantage is you can fine tune the ride height. If you go with aftermarket uni-ball upper control arms and get an extended set of coilovers this will also increase your suspension travel by about .5-1". In the rear you'd basically want to get something from the same company to get a "matched" set for ride quality. This would most likely consist of a matching shock and spring combo.

All of these kits will give you 2-3" of additional lift. They will all put at least some additional strain on the front drivetrain as your front CVs (if you have a 4x4) will no longer be at the stock angle. Basically what this will do is cause premature boot wear. Other than that (with the exception of off-roading) it should cause little to no more wear on your vehicle.

It sounds like you'd want to go with either the 2nd or 3rd setup.

 

[J.A.]

I will contradict what the previous poster said.

Spacers do not increase the spring rate or increase the load on the spring. Do some research on spacers and their effect on springs. If the front coils are 580/ft lb before adding spacers, they require the same 580lbs to move the spring one inch after the spacer addition, hence the rate does not change. On the other hand changing coils to OME or virtually any other spring brand including coilovers will change the rate to a stiffer one by design and choice.

Anyone care to answer a question I asked once or twice previously...What is the difference in terms of preload of cranking down a nut on a $1K+ coilover increasing the coilovers "preload" and adding lift than that of adding a $40 1/2" or 1" preload spacer to add lift?

 

[SP Jon M3]

Spacers do not increase the spring rate or increase the load on the spring. Do some research on spacers and their effect on springs. If the front coils are 580/ft lb before adding spacers, they require the same 580lbs to move the spring one inch after the spacer addition, hence the rate does not change.

Well, Yes you are correct, but it does have a similar effect of changing the spring rate (I guess I said that cause I didn't want to get into that much detail in the original post). It will make the suspension stiffer because of the change in the geometry of the suspension (less leverage on the suspension because the control arms are no longer parallel with the ground). Also you have the potential to loose some articulation because of the spacer; this is because of the added preload on the suspension, It might not compress all the way as it might have if it were stock.

Originally posted by J.A. On the other hand changing coils to OME or virtually any other spring brand including coilovers will change the rate to a stiffer one by design and choice

Yes, 100% correct, but these replacement springs and coilovers take into account the lift and therefore make adjust the spring rate accordingly. And typincally ride better than spacers because of that.

For OP: I know this post is of a tacoma, but this seems to be the consensus with spacer lifts. Things might be different for the 4Runners, but when I had my Tacoma I'd see posts like this alot regarding spacers:

http://www.customtacos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91348

 

[J.A.]

Well, Yes you are correct, but it does have a similar effect of changing the spring rate (I guess I said that cause I didn't want to get into that much detail in the original post). It will make the suspension stiffer because of the change in the geometry of the suspension (less leverage on the suspension because the control arms are no longer parallel with the ground).

This is true of spacers but isnt it also true of longer stiffer coils or coilovers?

Also you have the potential to loose some articulation because of the spacer; this is because of the added preload on the suspension, It might not compress all the way as it might have if it were stock.

Correct inserting a preload spacer will limit the space the coils has to compress, big drawback and why I prefer a little less preload and a little more topout if using a spacer. BTW, doesnt cranking down on a coilover make the spring area available for compression smaller too?

Yes, 100% correct, but these replacement springs and coilovers take into account the lift and therefore make adjust the spring rate accordingly. And typincally ride better than spacers because of that.

I would hope so, but they will technically be stiffer and provide a stiffer ride. That is of course if the suspension system or components were designed specifically for the application. Remember...OME isnt designed or specifically manufactured for the 4Runner, it just happens to fit.

 

[SP Jon M3]

This is true of spacers but isnt it also true of longer stiffer coils or coilovers?

Yes, true for both. But with a quality CO or Spring again they will take this into account and design accordingly. I can tell you that IVD coilovers are a huge improvement over the stock suspension as far as ride quality. They have a better ride than the x-reas.

TBTW, doesnt cranking down on a coilover make the spring area available for compression smaller too?

Yes and no.. sure if you crank them all the way you'll have the same effect. But they design them to allow you to adjust the preload for anout 2.5-3" without having a spring compression problem. You have to remember that the springs on a coilover run about 75% of the length of the coilover, whereas the stock front strut the coil is only 45-50% the length of the strut. Therefore you have more space to use with the coilover.

That is of course if the suspension system or components were designed specifically for the application. Remember...OME isnt designed or specifically manufactured for the 4Runner, it just happens to fit.

True OMEs are not made for the 4Runner, but we are fortunate in that the 4Runner, FJ, Tacoma, Hilux all share the same 120 platform that includes the chassis engine (v6 models) and transmission. The only one that has any major difference if the Tacoma, from the firewall to the back the chassis is a C channel vs. fully boxed like the FJ and 4R. This means that the suspension and weight over the front axle are going to be very close.

 

[SP Jon M3]

Here's another link:

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/suspension-and-axle/133913-why-most-spacer-lifts-are-bad/

 

[SP Jon M3]

Yes and no.. sure if you crank them all the way you'll have the same effect. But they design them to allow you to adjust the preload for anout 2.5-3" without having a spring compression problem. You have to remember that the springs on a coilover run about 75% of the length of the coilover, whereas the stock front strut the coil is only 45-50% the length of the strut. Therefore you have more space to use with the coilover.

Looks like I was wrong on this (bad memory and it's late), they both have about the same length spring, but the coilover does have about 2" more space between the top most position of the collar and the bottom pearch over the stock struts top and bottom collars. And if you look, the springs in their current state they are apox the same length, but the coilover is already adjusted to have about 2.5" of lift out of the box.

 

[fr0st m0nkey]

You should add a 2" body lift and 3/2" spacer lift and run 35's or bigger because I want to see what it looks like.

 

[J.A.]

Looks like I was wrong on this (bad memory and it's late), they both have about the same length spring, but the coilover does have about 2" more space between the top most position of the collar and the bottom pearch over the stock struts top and bottom collars. And if you look, the springs in their current state they are apox the same length, but the coilover is already adjusted to have about 2.5" of lift out of the box.

I was going to post a similar pic. Most coilovers have approx same spring legnth. Long travel COs being the exception, but they have their own issues with more mods needed to use.

So looking at your pic, the overall strut legnth is longer but spring legnth near same. If the factory strut unit had a topout spacer it would be the same legnth and provide the same lift.

The coilover is stiffer and rightfully so, as with less space between each coil turn the coil would stack sooner otherwise.

Coilovers are designed to be used for highspeed off road conditions such as baja with plenty of highspeed ruts. They can be rebuilt often and the stiffer rate both are factors which make them ideal for those conditions. Most dont use their 4R in that way. In fact most that lift a 4th gen and offroad still do over 90-95% of their mileage on road. We did mention using springs for their intended application right.

I am just playing devils advocate in regards to spacers here as people always put them down as second rate when for many they are ideal. The main point was that spacers dont increase spring rate, which is a common misconception. I used to think they increased the rate as well. Perhaps certain ones can make the ride feel stiffer, but so do aftermarket springs and CO's. People feel that since coilovers are more $$$ they are better in all conditions when they are not and have very similar issues as spacers.

I took a look at your link to TS and those issues are why I would not use a 100% topout spacer greater than 1" in thickness. As mentioned in that thread, a coilover can be typically up to 0-1" longer than a factory strut so a 1" topout spacer shouldnt present an issue. I have never heard anyone with a 1" topout with a significant issue and I have been reading various 4R forums for 10 years.

 

[Tony Tacoma]

Any suggestions or first hand experience of which coilover option to go with? There are a lot of makes which differ significantly in price.

 

[Kentucky]

My 2 cents...

I'm currently running a Cornfed 3/2 lift and am quickly growing to not like it. I really don't take mine off road much so I jumped on the spacer option for my lift. While it really helps the look of the truck, it really is not a great option as far as I'm concerned. The ride is much harsher and while I used to breeze over speed bumps stock, I know find myself creeping over them to avoid the noise that sounds like the ass end of my truck fell off.

Come spring I'll be looking to go with a different set up.

 

[bigdon]

I'm adding a 2" spacer lift to my 4R next weekend, and I'm actually "hoping" it does firm up the ride.
I've never liked how the stock 4R rides. It's "too" cushy for me. Kinda floaty. And it's not the shocks.

: )

 

[chaz]

coilovers

i went with the toytec adj. coilovers from FATBOBS, they are eibach springs with bilsteins. they seemed to be a bit cheaper than some others & to me, give a great ride. i would of gotten the icon but wanted to save $. the TT are a good bit less $ its 6-700 vs 1100 or so. they provide a minimum of 1 - 3 & 1/2 lift. you will need the matching rear shock also, good luck on what ever you decide,

 

[Kentucky]

I'm adding a 2" spacer lift to my 4R next weekend, and I'm actually "hoping" it does firm up the ride.
I've never liked how the stock 4R rides. It's "too" cushy for me. Kinda floaty. And it's not the shocks.

: )

It will firm up your ride... almost too much.