I think Im screwed...

[poleclimber63]

So the other day I was driving home and 200 metres from my driveway I heard a loud pop, and then some uncomfortable noises- I pulled into the driveway and shut her down. I jumped out to a growing cloud of smoke! With the hood open, I observed oil sprayed all over on the passenger side of the engine compartment.

Tonight I found the time to have a closer look. With the airbox and ducting removed up to the throttle body, I noticed a piece of plastic sticking out from coil on cyl 3. I pulled the coil and it fell apart... I pulled the plug and all that was left of the end of the plug was the anode...

That means the pieces are in the cylinder! I think I'm screwed.... this was a JDM dropped in in 2016, at least I got almost 100k km out of it..

 

[jross20]

Uh oh. Do the spark plugs shoot out? I've heard of that happening before and it is repairable I believe, but I'm not sure where the oil is coming from.

We got to get some pictures of this engine

 

[ArthurKotb]

I'm not quite sure I understand the situation but it sounds like the coil on plug #3 had a meltdown, but I don't understand why there would be oil all over the engine. I had a V6 Camry spray oil everywhere once, but it was a power steering hose that caused it. It was a big smokey mess.

I would get a bore scope and look inside that cylinder for the rest of that plug. Then I would try a couple things. The first would be to put mechanical fingers in there to see if I could grab it. (mechanical fingers is the tool that you push on one end like a hypodermic needle and the other end opens up 4 metal clips. Release the plunger and the clips grab whatever it can.)

If that didn't work I'd try to put a piece of PVC or aluminum pipe on the end of a shop vac hose and put the tube into the spark plug hole and try to vacuum it all out.

Anyway, my suggestions for getting something out of a cylinder. If that's not the problem then we need some additional detail.

 

[brillo_76]

I actually have electrode embedded in my piston from a PO didn't change the plugs. At 215k the electrode failed broke into 3 pieces and got sucked in.
A chuck or 2 are still in there 292k miles later.

Use a boroscope and see what's in there. Put the the cylinder near the top and make a tool out of an old plug to suck out all the debris.

Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk

 

[3bears]

was the plug still threaded in or had it popped out with the coil ? If it was still threaded in then I dont know where all the oil was coming from. If it shot the plug out you can fix the cyllinder head.
I would try to suck out all the debri as stated in earlier posts then do a compression test

 

[Twisted Sid]

I'm guessing the spark plug tube seal was shot and the tube was filled with oil. When the coil rapidly disassembled, the oil found a path out. As for why the coil did what it did, I don't know.

 

[MaineRunna]

Was the spark plug still threaded in or was it loose in the hole? That matters a lot.

 

[poleclimber63]

Uh oh. Do the spark plugs shoot out? I've heard of that happening before and it is repairable I believe, but I'm not sure where the oil is coming from.

We got to get some pictures of this engine

The spark plug was still threaded into cyl 3, but not very tight. I believe the oil came from a damaged tube seal damaged by the exploding coil... I did remove the valve cover and was encouraged to see no evidence of damage. I hope the bits of the plug havent caused irrepairable damage to the cylinder, piston or valves. I'll know more when I scope it.

 

[poleclimber63]

I'm not quite sure I understand the situation but it sounds like the coil on plug #3 had a meltdown, but I don't understand why there would be oil all over the engine. I had a V6 Camry spray oil everywhere once, but it was a power steering hose that caused it. It was a big smokey mess.

I would get a bore scope and look inside that cylinder for the rest of that plug. Then I would try a couple things. The first would be to put mechanical fingers in there to see if I could grab it. (mechanical fingers is the tool that you push on one end like a hypodermic needle and the other end opens up 4 metal clips. Release the plunger and the clips grab whatever it can.)

If that didn't work I'd try to put a piece of PVC or aluminum pipe on the end of a shop vac hose and put the tube into the spark plug hole and try to vacuum it all out.

Anyway, my suggestions for getting something out of a cylinder. If that's not the problem then we need some additional detail.

Those are exactly my next moves! I have lots of pvc hose! I ordered a bore scope from Amazon this morning, so I hope to see the extent of the damage... if the valves look ok and the cylinder isnt badly scored, the real test will be a compression measurement. After I fish out the pieces of the ground electrodes... I did open the valve cover and was encouraged, as i didnt see any evidence of damage. My imagination ran away with me last night, I was thinking I had a valve failure, and thats what broke the spark plug and beat the end up... shorting the coil causing it to heat up and explode... butttt... the valve train looks ok..

 

[poleclimber63]

I actually have electrode embedded in my piston from a PO didn't change the plugs. At 215k the electrode failed broke into 3 pieces and got sucked in.
A chuck or 2 are still in there 292k miles later.

Use a boroscope and see what's in there. Put the the cylinder near the top and make a tool out of an old plug to suck out all the debris.

Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk

My next moves! Thanks, good idea about using an old plug to suck out the debris.
Did you observe scoring of the cylinder walls? That's one of my worries, as well as damaged valves or seats...

 

[poleclimber63]

was the plug still threaded in or had it popped out with the coil ? If it was still threaded in then I dont know where all the oil was coming from. If it shot the plug out you can fix the cyllinder head.
I would try to suck out all the debri as stated in earlier posts then do a compression test

Plug was still threaded in the head, not very tight however...I believe the oil was a result of the coil exploding damaging to tube seal. When I removed the vc, there was no observable damage to the head of vc...

 

[poleclimber63]

I'm guessing the spark plug tube seal was shot and the tube was filled with oil. When the coil rapidly disassembled, the oil found a path out. As for why the coil did what it did, I don't know.

My guess is the same as yours or maybe when the coil failed, there was enough oil pressure to leak out before I turned the engine off.... As for the coil exploding, maybe the debris shorted the plug electrode causing the catastrophic failure... Hopefully, I'll know more after a bore scope.

 

[poleclimber63]

Was the spark plug still threaded in or was it loose in the hole? That matters a lot.

Interesting you mentioned "loose", it was still threaded but it wasnt tight, like the others...

 

[MaineRunna]

In 39 years of being in the auto repair business I have never seen an ignition coil explode. What I have seen a lot of is spark plugs coming loose and combustion gasses melting the coil boot. If this was on the other side of the engine you probably would have found the plug dangling outside of the engine by the spark plug wire, but the coil holds it in place on the RH side. The oil was probably already in the spark plug tube from a leaking seal. The plug doesn't look that bad so it probably didn't damage the piston, valves or cylinder walls. Check with a borescope if you can, but a compression test will probably be sufficient. You most likely don't have any threads left in the spark plug hole. It can be fixed without removing the cylinder head with a spark plug thread insert. I have seen this many times on the 3400.

 

[brillo_76]

My next moves! Thanks, good idea about using an old plug to suck out the debris.

Did you observe scoring of the cylinder walls? That's one of my worries, as well as damaged valves or seats...

I am still driving it. Close to 75k miles more on it. There couldn't be any cylinder wall damage. Granted, I have lots of oil leaks so I wouldn't realize it. The engine is quiet.

Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk

 

[poleclimber63]

Well, I received my bore scope...

I bought a bore scope and had a look inside! There were a few pieces inside but no appreciable damage to the cylinder walls, so using a shopvac and some flexible plastic tubing, sucked out the pieces that were left in the cylinder but unfortunately the spark plug wouldn't torque, and just spun. I will try a helicoil... does anyone have advice on inserting a helicoil without pulling the head? I think if I'm slow and careful, I can suck out the shavings of aluminum using my vacuum, does anyone have better suggestions?

Clean after vacuum:

 

[davidch]

If you haven't already purchased a Heli-Coil kit, I recommend at least familiarizing yourself with Time-Serts. I think they're better; others may disagree.

+ TIME-SERT? SPARK PLUG THREAD REPAIR KITS + spark plug stripped thread repair kits for spark plug problems, thread stripped spark plug repairs in damaged threads in spark plug hole stripped out approved thread repair, aluminum head spark plug repair

 

[brillo_76]

you can still see the cross hatching on the cylinder wall... I would say, by the looks of that side looks good. Did you get a 360 of that cylinder wall of that cylinder?

Does it look good up by the head gasket?

Great job getting the pieces out of the cylinder.

 

[poleclimber63]

In 39 years of being in the auto repair business I have never seen an ignition coil explode. What I have seen a lot of is spark plugs coming loose and combustion gasses melting the coil boot. If this was on the other side of the engine you probably would have found the plug dangling outside of the engine by the spark plug wire, but the coil holds it in place on the RH side. The oil was probably already in the spark plug tube from a leaking seal. The plug doesn't look that bad so it probably didn't damage the piston, valves or cylinder walls. Check with a borescope if you can, but a compression test will probably be sufficient. You most likely don't have any threads left in the spark plug hole. It can be fixed without removing the cylinder head with a spark plug thread insert. I have seen this many times on the 3400.

I did a search and funny enough youre absolutely right! It seems cyl 3 is a common one to blow out, and youre right, theres no threads left. I just received a helicoil insert and tools from Amazon this afternoon, so this weekend hopefully it'll be back on the road. I put a bore scope in last weekend and discovered no damage to the cylinder, a couple of small scratches on the piston and vacuumed out the cyl with a small hose. Fingers crossed, on the helicoil.

 

[poleclimber63]

you can still see the cross hatching on the cylinder wall... I would say, by the looks of that side looks good. Did you get a 360 of that cylinder wall of that cylinder?

Does it look good up by the head gasket?

Great job getting the pieces out of the cylinder.

I was able to rotate the camera around the cylinder and it looks good, after I vacuumed out the cylinder, however, the head of the camera was too long to bend it so I could see the head gasket and valves, I'm assuming the valves are ok as there was no other debris in the cylinder. Now for a helicoil install this weekend as the threads were screwed.