Ignition Issues - After driving through deep water

mteolus

mteolus

New member
2017 4Runner TRD ORP 50k miles.

Ran it through some deep water, then the temps fell below freezing. Started up ok the next morning but then 2 days later and now for the last 2 weeks sometimes it starts fine and then sometimes I have to move the key around in the start position several times to find just the right place for it to kick off the starter. Any ideas? Solenoid? I read some posts on older 4Runners that they took off the starter and replaced some copper contacts on the solenoid (apparently solenoid is part of the starter) to fix the issue. Or perhaps it is the ignition?
 
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I had a similar issue last winter after getting into deep water out East. See if you can pull an error code but mine was having issues with the crank position sensor. Drove back home to Colorado and the dry air solved my problem lol. If it is indeed a crank position sensor error you can pull the cap, dry it out, and pop some dielectric grease in there.
 
Bad crank position sensor would cause "crank/no start," not "no crank/no start" as the OP describes.

If jiggling the key in the ignition is actually having an effect and isn't just coincidental, then the problem is in the ignition switch, and is unrelated to the water crossing. If the water crossing really is the source of the problem, then jiggling the ignition key should have no effect, and the problem is likely in the starter or solenoid.
 
mteolus said:
2017 4Runner TRD ORP 50k miles.

Ran it through some deep water, then the temps fell below freezing. Started up ok the next morning but then 2 days later and now for the last 2 weeks sometimes it starts fine and then sometimes I have to move the key around in the start position several times to find just the right place for it to kick off the starter. Any ideas? Solenoid? I read some posts on older 4Runners that they took off the starter and replaced some copper contacts on the solenoid (apparently solenoid is part of the starter) to fix the issue. Or perhaps it is the ignition?
Click to expand...

I had a similar issue... deep water crossing... no problems... several on/off cycles with no problems cranking/starting. Then two days later it wouldn't turn over. Turn the key to On, and everything would be normal. Turn the key to Start and dash would go dark but nothing would happen. Sometimes after a couple of attempts, or holding the key to Start for many seconds (2-10), it would crank and light off with no problem. No real error codes. Took to the dealer, and they couldn't track it down, as it became intermittent (sometimes it would crank no problem the first time, and other times it would take 20 attempts... you can guess how it acted at the dealer... never a problem). It ended up 'fixing' itself after about two months. I replaced the battery, starter relay, and ignition switch, all with no improvement.

My guess at this point is that the dealer installed 'alarm' (I didn't pay for it, but the dealership installs them on all the vehicles as soon as they roll off the rigs), somehow got it's kill-switch relay funked up by the water. I want to go in and short out the kill-switch relay, as I don't know when it will give me all heck again.

Good luck, and let us know what you find.
 
mo_mo said:
I had a similar issue... deep water crossing... no problems... several on/off cycles with no problems cranking/starting. Then two days later it wouldn't turn over. Turn the key to On, and everything would be normal. Turn the key to Start and dash would go dark but nothing would happen. Sometimes after a couple of attempts, or holding the key to Start for many seconds (2-10), it would crank and light off with no problem. No real error codes. Took to the dealer, and they couldn't track it down, as it became intermittent (sometimes it would crank no problem the first time, and other times it would take 20 attempts... you can guess how it acted at the dealer... never a problem). It ended up 'fixing' itself after about two months. I replaced the battery, starter relay, and ignition switch, all with no improvement.

My guess at this point is that the dealer installed 'alarm' (I didn't pay for it, but the dealership installs them on all the vehicles as soon as they roll off the rigs), somehow got it's kill-switch relay funked up by the water. I want to go in and short out the kill-switch relay, as I don't know when it will give me all heck again.

Good luck, and let us know what you find.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the exact same thing.

One other note, if you run through deep water and then it freezes, don't use your emergency brake. I put it in gear and it wouldn't move the next morning. Finally I gave it enough gas and it broke loose. Pretty loud pop.
 
if its your starter, replace it with the FJ starter... pretty sure its water proof. had some friends that found that out the hard way.
 
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mteolus said:
2017 4Runner TRD ORP 50k miles.

Ran it through some deep water, then the temps fell below freezing. Started up ok the next morning but then 2 days later and now for the last 2 weeks sometimes it starts fine and then sometimes I have to move the key around in the start position several times to find just the right place for it to kick off the starter. Any ideas? Solenoid? I read some posts on older 4Runners that they took off the starter and replaced some copper contacts on the solenoid (apparently solenoid is part of the starter) to fix the issue. Or perhaps it is the ignition?
Click to expand...

Place your finger on the starter relay while someone turns the key. If you feel the relay click when the starter does not engage, then the starter is probably bad. $160, two bolts, < 1 hr.
 
Well damn, at least it is only $160. Seems like a big flaw if the starters are not waterproof. I wonder if Taco's have this same problem....

And everyone was concerned around here about Diff breathers when the starter seems to be the biggest issue.
 
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Approximately how high is the starter off the ground in a stock configuration?

The real question is, what depth of water is too deep for the stater to become submerged? 12 inches, 16 inches?
 
Water was up to the top of the back bumper (where the black plastic piece is right below the rear gate) and I have a 3" lift. I'll measure. So I guess the starter is lower than that or the wake made the water even higher than that. Seems like if Toyota put a snorkel on as a factory option they would upgrade the starter too but I bet not.

Anyone familiar with New Mexico, the creek crossing was at the beginning of the Goose Lake Trail in Red River which is very popular. The creek keeps getting deeper every year. My buddies stock Jeep Rubicon made it without any issues.
 
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mteolus said:
Sounds like the exact same thing.

One other note, if you run through deep water and then it freezes, don't use your emergency brake. I put it in gear and it wouldn't move the next morning. Finally I gave it enough gas and it broke loose. Pretty loud pop.
Click to expand...

What's the latest status / findings?
 
mo_mo said:
I had a similar issue... deep water crossing... no problems... several on/off cycles with no problems cranking/starting. Then two days later it wouldn't turn over. Turn the key to On, and everything would be normal. Turn the key to Start and dash would go dark but nothing would happen. Sometimes after a couple of attempts, or holding the key to Start for many seconds (2-10), it would crank and light off with no problem. No real error codes. Took to the dealer, and they couldn't track it down, as it became intermittent (sometimes it would crank no problem the first time, and other times it would take 20 attempts... you can guess how it acted at the dealer... never a problem). It ended up 'fixing' itself after about two months. I replaced the battery, starter relay, and ignition switch, all with no improvement.

My guess at this point is that the dealer installed 'alarm' (I didn't pay for it, but the dealership installs them on all the vehicles as soon as they roll off the rigs), somehow got it's kill-switch relay funked up by the water. I want to go in and short out the kill-switch relay, as I don't know when it will give me all heck again.

Good luck, and let us know what you find.
Click to expand...

I had the exact same problem with my '14 TE on the Mojave Road trail in CA. The deep Mojave River crossing at the end was up to the upper wheel well with my 2.5" lift and 255/75 tires, so I think it was about 36" deep. The truck made it through just fine and ran ok for 2 days afterward, but then continued to get worse every day. Finally, exactly one week later, the truck would not turn over. I could hear the starter "click" each time but it wouldn't turn over. After sitting for about 30 sec, I tried again and it lit up. I proceeded directly to the auto repair shop and dropped it off. They checked it out and replaced the starter and it now runs like a champ.
 
DeltaWhiskey said:
On a side note, ignition switch wear is compounded by heavy keyrings.
Click to expand...
Having been in auto parts for MANY years I've found this to be true.
Having a bunch of keys and/or a heavy fob accelerates wears the ignition tumbler and/or switch.
Each of my vehicles (7 of them) has its own key ring with just what's needed for that rig. In the case of my 68 F100 it uses 8 keys, so it uses 2 keyrings. My house keys are on their own ring (another 7 keys).

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
boyfester said:
I had the exact same problem with my '14 TE on the Mojave Road trail in CA. The deep Mojave River crossing at the end was up to the upper wheel well with my 2.5" lift and 255/75 tires, so I think it was about 36" deep. The truck made it through just fine and ran ok for 2 days afterward, but then continued to get worse every day. Finally, exactly one week later, the truck would not turn over. I could hear the starter "click" each time but it wouldn't turn over. After sitting for about 30 sec, I tried again and it lit up. I proceeded directly to the auto repair shop and dropped it off. They checked it out and replaced the starter and it now runs like a champ.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Sounds like the same crossing got both of us. Oddly enough, my starter never acted up by clicking (solenoid/power). It either engaged or didn't. Dealer couldn't duplicate, and it 'healed' up all on its own (been perfect for 8 months now).
 
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