Illegal Immigration Protests

[TeryT]

OK, I'm hearing all these reports of massive protests going on. The protesters are saying things like: "We are the ones that do the jobs that keeps America moving, and now you want to do bad things to us." And, "The blacks had their day with Martin Luther King, now it's our turn." And, "W're not terrorists!" LA was surprised to see an estimated half mill turn out, and my town of Phoenix was surprised to see huge numbers too.

Why don't I see this as a racist issue? Why don't I see the ILLEGAL infiltration of our borders in these terms?

Do people really expect that if they got here ILLEGALLY, that there should be no consequences whatsoever!?

There are two main issues: 1) What to do with those that are here ILLEGALLY, and 2) preventing more from getting here ILLEGALLY.

But why does this problem have to be framed in racist terms? (does this have to do with everyone thinking they are entitled to receive something from the US of A - and seek to do this by exploiting/playing the racist/entitlement card?)

And what's with all the chants of "Mexico! Mexico!" by the protesters!!!??? Does that strike anybody else as being a little scarey? I thought they wanted to be in America! Do they want to refight that war again & have the whole SW become Mexican territory again? :awais:

Is there anybody Hispanic on here? - I'd really like to hear a logical response, not overly based on emotion. And maybe we can have a civil discussion.

 

[Techenigma]

I find these protests offensive to my family, and all those other families that legally immigrated to this country. Unless you're of native american heritage we all (our families at least) immigrated here, and practically all did it legally.

Out of all their ranting and raving they never mention the word illegal... but thats what they're fighting the U.S to allow Illegal immigration. Which is wrong and not just if you're hispanic, mexican, latino etc. If you entered the U.S illegally from canada, europe or asia you're just as bad.
Last I checked they didn't build this Country either... it was settlers from europe crossing the pond and then battling it out against the British that did... so wtf are they talking about?

 

[teotwaki]

Well, the PC types are working hard to erase "illegal" from the daily discussions. They want us to speak and think:

Undocumented Workers :bs:

I find these protests offensive to my family, and all those other families that legally immigrated to this country. Unless you're of native american heritage we all (our families at least) immigrated here, and practically all did it legally.

Out of all their ranting and raving they never mention the word illegal... but thats what they're fighting the U.S to allow Illegal immigration. Which is wrong and not just if you're hispanic, mexican, latino etc. If you entered the U.S illegally from canada, europe or asia you're just as bad.
Last I checked they didn't build this Country either... it was settlers from europe crossing the pond and then battling it out against the British that did... so wtf are they talking about?

 

[SHARKYCSI]

They will take over without ever firing a shot. Americans are asleep.

 

[Presto]

Have you noticed that the protests are spoken in spanish?

Uhh.... it's America and english is our national language, if you have any chance with moving forward in this country you should probably give our language a try. At the very least when you're protesting to english-speaking AMERICANS!

 

[Presto]

This wouldn't be a good PR stunt for the United States, but would it be funny if the police started arresting all the illegal alien protesters? That would bring the protest numbers down a bit, as everyone scatters from the police.

I'm sure the workforce numbers on Monday would be down if that happened, and we'd head into another economic downslide....

 

[mole177]

my only gripe about these things is that if a certain group of immigrants are trying to get things to their liking, why are they waving their NATIVE flag around?!!?

It grinds my gears...

 

[Presto]

my only gripe about these things is that if a certain group of immigrants are trying to get things to their liking, why are they waving their NATIVE flag around?!!?

It grinds my gears...

100% agreed!

 

[Whoknows]

In the spirit of civil discussion -- I can understand the points above, have thought similarly. However, more recently I've had to look at things a bit differently. I've noticed that almost all of the work done on new housing construction is by "illegal immigrants". So, what I think we have to look at is how we cry foul about their immigration being illegal and yet readily take what they offer. Why do WE do this? Is this any less of a contradiction than what we are saying above? It's like being angry with Columbia for producing cocaine while we suck it up in quantities that boggle the imagination. What we have to look at is either paying FAR greater prices for homes and other things -- likely on the order of 2-3 times the price -- or finding some way to legalize the immigration of workers to continue to do this kind of work for so little, or continue to pretend to have immigration laws that we clearly benefit from not enforcing -- and then blaming the workers for coming here illegally.

Just my 2 cents!

 

[Presto]

What we have to look at is either paying FAR greater prices for homes and other things -- likely on the order of 2-3 times the price -- or finding some way to legalize the immigration of workers to continue to do this kind of work for so little, or continue to pretend to have immigration laws that we clearly benefit from not enforcing -- and then blaming the workers for coming here illegally.

Just my 2 cents!

Not to flame on you, but home prices are dictated by market values. 2 houses sold side by side (one built by illegals and one by americans), would sell for around the same price. The difference is that the builder who hires the illegal immigrants gets a bigger profit by paying his guys less. It's the business owners who condone this who are the problem.

It costs the same amount of money to have illegal aliens roof your house as any other company, costs the same amount to get a commercial property's lawn mowed.

 

[Whoknows]

Perhaps.........I dunno............but doesn't the market (forces of supply and demand) have something to do with price?
So, if there were less supply of cheap labor, with demand staying the same, then the price of labor goes up. That means cost of products rise.

The reason that it doesn't just get absorbed by the builders is that competition among builders would not really allow for one builder to make a significantly higher profit margin than another. Given two houses of equal quality and amenities, in a similar location, which one would you buy? The cheaper one. So, if your'e a builder competing with other builders with equal products, you attract customers by lowering your price. A builder who uses higher cost labor cannot lower his/her price as low as one who does. So, they have few customers.

Hence, prices go down with lower labor costs b/c of market forces. This is the basic economics of how sweat shops come into being. Follow me?

 

[jlboers]

I know this topic is being beaten to death as of late, but I still wish to pass my thoughts on to you.

It is with great disgust that I now hear daily about criminals (illegal immigrants) trying to dictate what our government ought to do with regards to illegal immigrants. I myself am a product of immigration and my parents became Americans "By The Book"! As everyone should who wishes to become an American. It is long overdue that we as a people should deal with the law breakers. I wish to share with you this quote by one of our Presidents.

*"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language.. And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

 

[CVsGX470]

If you are going to protest, at least wave the American Flag and act like you love this country. What does it say when you parade around with the Mexican Flag and want to be in the USA? If that is the case, go home and let your country support you as well as we do....:bash:

 

[TeryT]

If you are going to protest, at least wave the American Flag and act like you love this country. What does it say when you parade around with the Mexican Flag and want to be in the USA? If that is the case, go home and let your country support you as well as we do....:bash:

Off topic a little, but I have a funny story about the Buckeye flag. When I 1st moved to Columbus, my boss asked me how I liked where I lived. I told him it was great, but I was a little concerned about all these funny large red flags everyone was flying with big zeros on them. I asked if maybe there was a strange cult in my area or something. He paused & looked real thoughtful, then burst out laughing. Then he ran off to tell everyone in the department what I said. Next thing I know, I was surrounded by people doubled-over, pointing at me & laughing.

Turns out there was a big cult.

 

[CVsGX470]

Off topic a little, but I have a funny story about the Buckeye flag. When I 1st moved to Columbus, my boss asked me how I liked the everyone. I told him it was great, but I was a little concerned about all these funny red flags everyone was flying with big zeros on them. I asked if maybe there was a strange cult in my area or something. He paused & looked real thoughtful, then burst out laughing. Then he ran off to tell everyone in the department what I said. Next thing I know, I was surrounded by people doubled-over, pointing at me & laughing.

Turns out it was a big cult there.

Well then, let me laugh at you too! LOL!:

Do you still live in C-bus?
CV

 

[TeryT]

Moved out west back in 88 - Arizona now. They fly other funny flags here.

Really like the Teddy quote! Heard it on the radio yesterday,

 

[Presto]

The reason that it doesn't just get absorbed by the builders is that competition among builders would not really allow for one builder to make a significantly higher profit margin than another. Given two houses of equal quality and amenities, in a similar location, which one would you buy? The cheaper one. So, if your'e a builder competing with other builders with equal products, you attract customers by lowering your price. A builder who uses higher cost labor cannot lower his/her price as low as one who does. So, they have few customers.

Hence, prices go down with lower labor costs b/c of market forces. This is the basic economics of how sweat shops come into being. Follow me?

C'mon... House prices never go down because of cheap labor, they're determined by market value.

The builder with American labor loses his ass on smaller grosses (selling house at market price) for so many times and gives up, and then fires his American help and hires illegal aliens or underpayed hispanics to drive his return on investment up.

I don't think we'll agree on this one, but I appreciate the debate. You're a good guy and I mean no harm in disagreeing with you.

 

[Whoknows]

Cool. Feel the same about the debate.

In a way, I think we might be saying the same thing actually, just from a different angle. That he has to resort to illegal labor is what I mean -- because he can't make his gross -- because his competition that uses cheaper labor can sell at a lower price. Cheap labor puts downward pressure on price. That is the very market itself.

Anyway, I appreciate it also. Lately, I'm just finding the need to challenge some of the ways I have traditionally thought about things.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

My Nissan Sentra was assembled in Mexico by "cheap" labor.......yet Nissan charges just as much for the cars made there as they do for cars made in the USA or Japan.

The money 'saved' sure went somewhere, didn't it?
:bash: :arrow:

 

[Whoknows]

Still ignores market forces to think that it only works one way -- that the cheaper labor gets, the richer the manufacturer gets. Yes, the manufacturer benefits. But, when that benefit reaches a certain point, the market responds. Another manufacturer comes in to compete with similar advantages (finds same cheap labor) and then competes by lowering price -- which they can do b/c of the higher profit margin.

This is basic economics. Cheaper labor produces downward pressure on price.

I'm not saying I agree with the methods of protest, just that I think it is easy to pretend we aren't benefiting immensely from illegal immigration. If not, the market would not support it. Make sense?