Incompetant Mechanics

[kdx2000]

About 2 months ago I took my 99' Limited in to the dealership here in Beckley WV. to have the timing belt changed. No problem. I went out of town for the weekend and came home and went to work on Monday. During work, a co worker said to me that I was leaking antifreeze. So I went out and looked but I couldn't tell exactly where it was coming from. The overflow bottle was empty so I filled it. I drove home and upon removing the skid plates I noticed a droplet of antifreeze where the transmission line connects to the aluminum nipple that threads into the right side of the radiator. Next, I tried to hand tighten the nipple, but the threads wouldn't grab, they were galled. So i called the dealership and they said to bring it in. The service writer told me that they don't remove radiators to replace timing belts. I told him that someone had to have taken a wrench to it because the nipple was loose. So I had my girlfriend call another dealership and they told her that all they removed was the fan shroud. The bottom line was that I had to eat $355.00 for a new radiator. The service writer gave me the option of an aftermarket one vs. $500.00 for OEM. I am completely disatisfied by this dealership and lack of competense. I will never take my truck to L&S Toyota again!

 

[Biff]

About 2 months ago I took my 99' Limited in to the dealership here in Beckley WV. to have the timing belt changed. No problem. I went out of town for the weekend and came home and went to work on Monday. During work, a co worker said to me that I was leaking antifreeze. So I went out and looked but I couldn't tell exactly where it was coming from. The overflow bottle was empty so I filled it. I drove home and upon removing the skid plates I noticed a droplet of antifreeze where the transmission line connects to the aluminum nipple that threads into the right side of the radiator. Next, I tried to hand tighten the nipple, but the threads wouldn't grab, they were galled. So i called the dealership and they said to bring it in. The service writer told me that they don't remove radiators to replace timing belts. I told him that someone had to have taken a wrench to it because the nipple was loose. So I had my girlfriend call another dealership and they told her that all they removed was the fan shroud. The bottom line was that I had to eat $355.00 for a new radiator. The service writer gave me the option of an aftermarket one vs. $500.00 for OEM. I am completely disatisfied by this dealership and lack of competense. I will never take my truck to L&S Toyota again!

I would so not eat that $355, do a search on here and you'll fine similar experiences with other members. If it was me I would fight them and make them eat the cost. I had a similar experience with an oil change at a local dealership. One of there greese monkeys did not tighten then oil screw right and I started to leak oil. Well I took it back and they fixed me right up. Took some fighting but I got my way. Don't let the stealership push you around.

 

[EDGE]

screw that don't pay for their mistake, if you have to get a lawyer, in court they always favor the little guy when a company tries to take advantage:

 

[olliebear]

Does the phrase

res ipsa loquitor ring a bell?

You leave your car there. They work on it.

Then it comes back worse than before and things look like they were screwed up....

 

[EDGE]

I've had dealer problems, just stay calm and firm and don't back down, they know their wrong

 

[EDGE]

Re: Does the phrase

res ipsa loquitor ring a bell?

You leave your car there. They work on it.

Then it comes back worse than before and things look like they were screwed up....

Whats funny is most people think their gonna mess up their own car but in reality the techs mess them up just as much, thats why I avoid the dealer

 

[EDGE]

Re: Re: Does the phrase

That's LATIN for "the thing speaks for itself."

That's why I was saying to get the GM involved.

When I was younger I always wondered why they needed the guy from GM to get involved I soon learned it was General Manager not General Motors:

 

[MicaBlue03]

Trust, but verify

The competence of various dealers is all over the map, and competence within a shop can very a bunch as well. Any knowledge you can accumulate on your own (from places like this, for example) will put you miles ahead.

I was recently in the dealer parts department picking up a pair of oil filters each for the 4Runner and a Camry. The woman behind the counter gave me the wrong filter for my 2003 V6, and THIS WAS THE SECOND LOCAL DEALER TO DO THIS TO ME. Luckily I spotted it this time while still at the parts counter. The parts person's response was "Oh yeah, I guess that one uses the bigger filters" and she disappeared to a different area to grab a couple. At least she didn't argue about the return like the other guy did.

This is the same shop that did a transmission swap on the Camry a couple of years ago with no problems in a single day, but managed to overfill the transmission by a pint or so. Fortunately I had the Toyota repair manual set for the Camry and that's the only place they tell you how to check the ATF level. It's also the place where they tell you emphatically not to overfill it. When I stopped by the next morning to tell the service writer about it, his reply was "Do you have an appointment?" My hands were inching toward his throat but maturity eventually took over and I simply re-explained the situation until he gave up and got the car in for a check. Oddly, they were very upfront about confirming the amount overfilling, and took a little initiative in the beginning to get the ok to replace the transmission rather than trying to repair it again (it was still under warranty and had had a couple of previous repairs for the same problem).

Maybe they give the complex stuff to the real mechanics and leave all the simple jobs (oil fils, tightening up bolts & fittings, etc.) to those whose only other job is to sweep the shop floor.

 

[Hitman]

Re: Trust, but verify

I was recently in the dealer parts department picking up a pair of oil filters each for the 4Runner and a Camry. The woman behind the counter gave me the wrong filter for my 2003 V6, and THIS WAS THE SECOND LOCAL DEALER TO DO THIS TO ME. Luckily I spotted it this time while still at the parts counter. The parts person's response was "Oh yeah, I guess that one uses the bigger filters" and she disappeared to a different area to grab a couple. At least she didn't argue about the return like the other guy did.

All Toyotas use one of two different size oil filters. Even if you had a totally incompetent parts department, you would still have a 50/50 chance of getting the proper filter.




Maybe they give the complex stuff to the real mechanics and leave all the simple jobs (oil fils, tightening up bolts & fittings, etc.) to those whose only other job is to sweep the shop floor.

There are typically 3 different levels of auto techs (or mechanics, as you call them) working in dealerships. The lower-level guys spend most of their time on oil changes, tune-ups, and brake jobs, as well as tire balance and rotations. These jobs are fairly simple, but do not make them much money because of the flat rate times involved.

If you had your tranny replaced, chances are the job was performed by a top-level tech, and he probably still managed to overfill the fluid, despite his experience. Most techs would not do a job like that and then ask a lower-level tech to add the fluid. It just doesn't work that way because the tech ultimately responsible for the work.

BTW, I used to be a Toyota technician.

 

[Kanab]

Hitman, since you once were a Toyota Tech. would you have them service your 4runner? You know oil/filter, change fluids, transmission service? Does Toyota have safeguards where tech's check each others work? I alway hate to have them pull the car back where I can't see what they are doing. If I have them do a OC, I check the filter and oil level and then wash the bottom of the engine down looking for leaks

 

[EDGE]

I was a Nissan & BMW tech and all I can say is cross your fingers when you send a car in, my advise is shoot for a more competent tech and always ask for him when you return but then again it's really 50/50

People don't believe me but the moment a new car arrives at the dealer they only damage it, point being new 04 LC is having DVD and playstation added for the owners kids, withing 5 minutes of them pulling it into the shop one of the mexican car jockes already took the paint off the rear bumper and next to it was an 4th Gen Sport getting a new windsheild:

Some of the techs need to slow down and that right their will eliminate the minor damage they do and things they overlook.

Whats your outlook on it Hitman

 

[Hitman]

Hitman, since you once were a Toyota Tech. would you have them service your 4runner? You know oil/filter, change fluids, transmission service? Does Toyota have safeguards where tech's check each others work? I alway hate to have them pull the car back where I can't see what they are doing. If I have them do a OC, I check the filter and oil level and then wash the bottom of the engine down looking for leaks

Pitbull,

Even though I'm not a tech anymore, I still do all the work on my own vehicles. I also take care of my family vehicles as well.

That said, I would bring my vehicle in for service to my old Toyota dealership if I didn't feel like doing the work myself. But keep in mind that I still know about half of the techs that work there and I know who I would want working on my vehicle and who I wouldn't....

There is no checking of other techs work.... the way it works is this:

If you bring your vehicle in for service and I'm working on it, then it becomes my responsibility 100%. In other words, if I do something wrong and you bring it back and complain, now I have to fix it on my time... I don't get paid for the job. This is the system that dealerships use to help ensure that the techs are doing their jobs properly. Believe me when I tell you that every tech hates the dreaded "come back"

 

[Hitman]

I was a Nissan & BMW tech and all I can say is cross your fingers when you send a car in, my advise is shoot for a more competent tech and always ask for him when you return but then again it's really 50/50

People don't believe me but the moment a new car arrives at the dealer they only damage it, point being new 04 LC is having DVD and playstation added for the owners kids, withing 5 minutes of them pulling it into the shop one of the mexican car jockes already took the paint off the rear bumper and next to it was an 4th Gen Sport getting a new windsheild:

Some of the techs need to slow down and that right their will eliminate the minor damage they do and things they overlook.

Whats your outlook on it Hitman

Well, I don't really agree with the part about damaging a car from the moment it arrives at the dealer....

I have seen my fair share of mistakes and accidents though.

Dealerships are pros at repairing cosmetic damage and making it look unblemished, that's for sure.

A lot of the techs in my dealership were excellent... only a few were idiots.

I agree that slowing down would eliminate most of the careless mistakes/damage, but then again, these guys are making money by beating the flat rate books, so how could they slow down and still make good money? I left the business about 8 years ago, and even back then the top techs in my dealership were breaking $100,000/year. And that was due to speed.

 

[EDGE]

:goinposta the "come back"

 

[Kanab]

My neighbor owns his own garage and has some good guys working for him. When/if I don't want to crawl under my car/truck I can take it too him and since I don't work I can stand with the mechanic while they service my vehicles. I also can make sure they use the correct fluids (synthetics that I supply). The dealer has to be used for warranty work and tire balancing (don't have a good source for that). I've used the dealer for the first few oil/filter changes with dino oil for breakin on both of my new vehicles. Now going to synthetic fluids and no more dealer. If I can't watch them I can't/don't trust the work that is done. I once had a Lexus dealer that "forgot" to put oil in my car

 

[MicaBlue03]

Only two oil filters

Hitman, I'm not sure if I'm interpreting your comments right.

You said "All Toyotas use one of two different size oil filters. Even if you had a totally incompetent parts department, you would still have a 50/50 chance of getting the proper filter."

There may be only two different sizes of base plates on the filters, but there are at least 3 different filter can sizes. I measured the size of the incorrect filters they sold me and they (the thread sizes and seating surfaces) were compatible. It's just that the volume of the filters (and presumably the flow capacity for a given pressure differential, etc.) was substantially different.

As far as I know, Toyota doesn't consider the filters the dealer originally gave me (presumably the ones meant for the old V6) to be the proper filters for this vehicle. If they were happy with the smaller filters I assume they wouldn't specify or install the larger ones, because it requires everybody to stock another model of filter.

I'm just not willing to take any chances with engine oil or filtration.

 

[Hitman]

Re: Only two oil filters

Hitman, I'm not sure if I'm interpreting your comments right.

You said "All Toyotas use one of two different size oil filters. Even if you had a totally incompetent parts department, you would still have a 50/50 chance of getting the proper filter."

There may be only two different sizes of base plates on the filters, but there are at least 3 different filter can sizes. I measured the size of the incorrect filters they sold me and they (the thread sizes and seating surfaces) were compatible. It's just that the volume of the filters (and presumably the flow capacity for a given pressure differential, etc.) was substantially different.

As far as I know, Toyota doesn't consider the filters the dealer originally gave me (presumably the ones meant for the old V6) to be the proper filters for this vehicle. If they were happy with the smaller filters I assume they wouldn't specify or install the larger ones, because it requires everybody to stock another model of filter.

I'm just not willing to take any chances with engine oil or filtration.

I've been out of the business for a few years now, but when I was a tech, every single Toyota we serviced used one of two possible different filters. We had a big filter and a small filter, period.

Maybe some of the newer Toyotas have different sizes? I dunno....

 

[MicaBlue03]

Filters--small, big, and bigger

I suspect that Toyota now has at least one bigger filter for the bigger engines they now use. That's the YZZD3 for the 4.0L V6 and perhaps for the V8 as well.

They further confuse things because the filter that they install at the factory isn't available here in the US. That's on top of the confusion caused when the recommended filter for a given model is changed. I had my last Toyota for 15 years and the recommended filter changed twice, getting smaller each time.

I wonder if the new V8 has moved the filter up to the easy-access position used in the V6? Maybe no more need to remove the skid plate at oil change time.

Um, I think I'm turning this into an oil filter thread. Sorry.

 

[Kanab]

Re: Filters--small, big, and bigger

I suspect that Toyota now has at least one bigger filter for the bigger engines they now use. That's the YZZD3 for the 4.0L V6 and perhaps for the V8 as well.

They further confuse things because the filter that they install at the factory isn't available here in the US. That's on top of the confusion caused when the recommended filter for a given model is changed. I had my last Toyota for 15 years and the recommended filter changed twice, getting smaller each time.

I wonder if the new V8 has moved the filter up to the easy-access position used in the V6? Maybe no more need to remove the skid plate at oil change time.

Um, I think I'm turning this into an oil filter thread. Sorry.

I looked that up once and the difference in the filter from the factory and the one you buy from the dealer is that the rubber seal is pre-lubed for easy install.

 

[toyo]

I was once a Toyota Tech myself. I now have my own Automotive repair business. Most service depts work like this.

Lead Tech, Team Leader:

Usually has the most experience.
Hands out work to the other techs on his "team"
Works on the most high technical stuff, likes to do gravy work.
Helps the other techs on his "team" with problems when they arise.
They usually get paid a little money for what the other techs on thier team turn.

Thier are usually 3 or 4 teams at each dealership.

BTW gravy work means jobs that are very easy and pay well. Such as a 60k service, brake jobs, etc. Not anything that takes diagnosing.

If I have to take my car in for warranty work, I always ask for a team leader to work on my car.