Interest List: SPC Extended Lower Control Arms

[absalom]

I had the pleasure of riding in a properly setup long-travel Tacoma in Mexico this weekend. Well, now I've been spoiled and am now searching for ways to make my truck more capable at speed. I am also changing my current build path to go lower, wider, and better at coping with fast hits. I realize we have a higher COG and more weight, but I refuse to give up the SUV body type for a pickup bed. Of course, I immediately eliminated Camburg and Total Chaos LT setups for the prohibitive price tags. 2nd gen 4runners have the Blazeland Long Travel kit which is very budget friendly and I thought it unfair that we shouldn't have the same privilege.

I spoke with Tom Przedpelski at SPC over the weekend regarding their interest in building extended lower control arms for the 3rd generation Toyota 4runner. I received the following email:

"I have passed your request on to a couple different people as well as logging the request into out CRM system.
I don’t believe there are any plans at this time, but sometimes all it takes is a request like this. All of your
contact information has been logged along with the request, so the Application Engineers can contact you if
needed. As the owner of a ’99 4-Runner, I might be interested as well!

-Tom" ​

I then informed him that I'd create a thread so we could calculate just how much interest there'd be in a budget-friendly long travel setup for our trucks. SPC makes fantastic UCA's for our trucks with tons of satisfied customers on this board alone. Turning to them first seemed like a no-brainer. So, if you'd like to build a far more capable, high-speed beast, please reply to this thread and make your voice heard!

 

[A.Wilson013]

Pending how "budget-friendly" they are, I will buy them. I'd be looking for a price similar to the UCAs, but I realize that's probably a bit low...

If they were not compatible with the SPC UCAs I would not buy them.

Something else to consider are the other components needed... Longer axles, longer tie rod ends, limit straps, coilovers, etc... And fiberglass fenders, of course, if the travel is indeed "long" travel.

 

[TCMach]

Interesting idea. I'm curious how this would work out. Are you looking at this as a comparable width/travel to camburg and total chaos? Or something in the middle?

Either way you will have to get a new upper control arm as well. You cant extend the bottom without extending the top

 

[NHRunner]

Aren't SPC UCAs about 3/5ths the cost of Camburg/Icon UCAs? There must be a decent market between 3rd gen 4runner and 1st gen taco guys. If they priced a full kit (minus coilovers) similarly to how their UCAs are priced, that would make long travel so much more accessible to people.

 

[MTD]

If they were not compatible with the SPC UCAs I would not buy them.

[MENTION=57546]4-Ripcord[/MENTION] may be the better man to consult on this, but I doubt that they would be able to make the UCA's compatible with the lowers because you would be moving your spindle outboard and the UCA's would need to be extended outboard as well and I don't think they have anywhere near enough adjustment available in them. Pretty much to sum it up it would have to be a UCA and LCA kit.

 

[A.Wilson013]

[MENTION=57546]4-Ripcord[/MENTION] may be the better man to consult on this, but I doubt that they would be able to make the UCA's compatible with the lowers because you would be moving your spindle outboard and the UCA's would need to be extended outboard as well and I don't think they have anywhere near enough adjustment available in them. Pretty much to sum it up it would have to be a UCA and LCA kit.

Which is specifically why I posted that. For those of us who have already made rather spendy suspension modifications this would probably be a bit harder to swallow.

 

[MTD]

Which is specifically why I posted that. For those of us who have already made rather spendy suspension modifications this would probably be a bit harder to swallow.

I'd be more that happy to take your UCA's off your hand if you want to upgrade :cheers:

 

[snivilous]

I like it

 

[MojaveMadMan]

I am assuming you mean longer upper and lower control arms. You cannot do one without the other. When you do just an upper control arm it is not actually longer, just moves the pivot of the upper ball joint to allow for better alignment in a lifted application.

All that said a stock length lower control arm, but stronger and with a uni-ball vs ball joint design would be a worth while investment. You could get more strength from both the control arm and the outer pivot. Plus you could do things like easily run a 2nd shock, hydro bump, etc. I would guess you could get a little more suspension travel out of it but you wouldn't want to go too far on stock CV's. The benefit is strength and adding more shock dampening!

Now if you do want to go long travel I do suggest thinking long and hard about this decision. I am from the long travel, haul a$$ world. Built every thing from pre-runner trucks to $100K full custom trucks and buggies. If you go long travel be prepared to spend some money, or have a lot of tools and patients. It is not as simple as bolting on longer arms, axles for the 4wd trucks, and a steering extension. You will have just made a major change to the entire engineering of the truck. You would be surprised on what kind of havoc it can cause on your rig. The weak steering racks will fail more than it already does for some people. Stock lower and upper control arm brackets will crack, even with gussets, everything cracks... Motor and trans mounts will take a pounding and will break if not upgraded. The drive train will need updating and repairs from drive shafts to front and rear diffs. The rear housing will fail with a lot of use, because it's not a full floater and axles will bend. Put 35" tires on and it just compounds things... And road manors, say bye bye. You have to be prepared to go all in when you build a long travel rig. Now don't let me completely dissuade you, long travel trucks done right are a TON of fun and by far the most trilling things on the planet. Going 80mph over 5 foot tall whoops sections is the coolest feeling in the world!

My goal with my rig, an opinion I have built over many years of this, and something I recommend to most people: go mid travel. You can do some fun fast driving with 33" tires, 2.5" shocks on all four corners and some hydro bump stops. I can't stress how much of a difference hydro bumps makes on a fast truck. If you wanna go crazy, do a 2nd 2.5" shock up front. A 4runner with minimal lift and great shocks with about 8" of wheel travel can do some serious driving at speed out there. Remember the $100K rigs don't just do great because they have tons of wheel travel. They do great because they have great wheel control by using great shocks. If I were you I would dump money in shocks vs. lower control arms. IF you run out of things to buy, then get lowers last haha.

Ok my rant is over!

 

[NHRunner]

[MENTION=93512]MojaveMadMan[/MENTION] Really good input.

I suppose the most interest would be in mid travel LCAs that reduce LBJ failures and help improve travel. Maybe an upper and lower kit ready to go with limit straps and upper and lower uniballs would be more marketable.

 

[MojaveMadMan]

[MENTION=93512]MojaveMadMan[/MENTION] Really good input.

I suppose the most interest would be in mid travel LCAs that reduce LBJ failures and help improve travel. Maybe an upper and lower kit ready to go with limit straps and upper and lower uniballs would be more marketable.

That would be a sweat kit. One big purchase with everything you need to have a badass mid travel set up!

 

[wake_rider]

Like stated above, I'd be down for a mid-travel kit.

Getting better undulation and flex while offroad, but maintaining many of the kinder road manners and dependability of our trucks would be in my range of wants. Having long travel at the expense of the latter would count me out.

 

[Kryptoroxx]

I second the mid travel setup. I think a lot of us are scare of the lbj with good cause. A stout lca and uca that utilizes uniball for ease of rebuild and increases in strength would be something I would throw some coins at definitely.

At some point I was going take my own but I gotta say that kind of fab work makes a bit nervous.

 

[absalom]

Aren't SPC UCAs about 3/5ths the cost of Camburg/Icon UCAs? There must be a decent market between 3rd gen 4runner and 1st gen taco guys. If they priced a full kit (minus coilovers) similarly to how their UCAs are priced, that would make long travel so much more accessible to people.

I agree, it'd have to be a full kit for me to be interested as well.

I am assuming you mean longer upper and lower control arms. You cannot do one without the other. When you do just an upper control arm it is not actually longer, just moves the pivot of the upper ball joint to allow for better alignment in a lifted application.

All that said a stock length lower control arm, but stronger and with a uni-ball vs ball joint design would be a worth while investment. You could get more strength from both the control arm and the outer pivot. Plus you could do things like easily run a 2nd shock, hydro bump, etc. I would guess you could get a little more suspension travel out of it but you wouldn't want to go too far on stock CV's. The benefit is strength and adding more shock dampening!

Now if you do want to go long travel I do suggest thinking long and hard about this decision. I am from the long travel, haul a$$ world. Built every thing from pre-runner trucks to $100K full custom trucks and buggies. If you go long travel be prepared to spend some money, or have a lot of tools and patients. It is not as simple as bolting on longer arms, axles for the 4wd trucks, and a steering extension. You will have just made a major change to the entire engineering of the truck. You would be surprised on what kind of havoc it can cause on your rig. The weak steering racks will fail more than it already does for some people. Stock lower and upper control arm brackets will crack, even with gussets, everything cracks... Motor and trans mounts will take a pounding and will break if not upgraded. The drive train will need updating and repairs from drive shafts to front and rear diffs. The rear housing will fail with a lot of use, because it's not a full floater and axles will bend. Put 35" tires on and it just compounds things... And road manors, say bye bye. You have to be prepared to go all in when you build a long travel rig. Now don't let me completely dissuade you, long travel trucks done right are a TON of fun and by far the most trilling things on the planet. Going 80mph over 5 foot tall whoops sections is the coolest feeling in the world!

My goal with my rig, an opinion I have built over many years of this, and something I recommend to most people: go mid travel. You can do some fun fast driving with 33" tires, 2.5" shocks on all four corners and some hydro bump stops. I can't stress how much of a difference hydro bumps makes on a fast truck. If you wanna go crazy, do a 2nd 2.5" shock up front. A 4runner with minimal lift and great shocks with about 8" of wheel travel can do some serious driving at speed out there. Remember the $100K rigs don't just do great because they have tons of wheel travel. They do great because they have great wheel control by using great shocks. If I were you I would dump money in shocks vs. lower control arms. IF you run out of things to buy, then get lowers last haha.

Ok my rant is over!

This is such great information. Thanks a bunch for your input. Trust me, my days of shoot first, ask questions later are over. I really want to do what's best for the long run and not make too many compromises in any one department. I never considered what difference shocks made. I just assumed it was all about the wheel travel. If this thread serves just one purpose, I hope it will be to highlight the 3rd generation owner's desire for a decent high speed, complete kit. If that company happens to be SPC, so be it. But if we generate a good amount of interest, I'll be sure to present it to many different manufacturers.

When first writing this thread, I had used the word "mid-travel" but was worried not many people would know what I was referring to. The TC kit expands track width by 7" or 3.5" on each side. If we had access to a mild, mid-travel kit that only expanded track width by 3" or 1.5" each side for around $800-$1,200, I bet we'd have a lot of buyers. Looking forward to your's and everyone else's feedback on this proposition.

 

[D Farms]

what axles would you need for this? t100?

 

[BrianSD_42]

Just curious but how fast do you drive offroad and how fast will you plan on going after the new customized front end?

Most of the guys here in SoCal with customer lower control arms attempt to go 40-50+ around the desert.

 

[snivilous]

Few thoughts, these are based on my experience with LT and the goal of modifying a stock suspension to get around 10" of travel within the next few weeks:

1. For mid travel, keep stock width since there is lots of untapped potential. For instance, look at your CV angle on a stock suspension (meaning stock width and bump stops and shock mounts) at full bump--it's nearly level/parallel with the ground. This means that essentially ALL of your travel on a stock suspension is--as far as the CV is concerned--down travel.

2. Kink the lower arm so the spindle will be higher at full bump and use some of the available travel that the CV never sees (top half of its motion range)--this is assuming the UCA will still be fine, which has issues of gnarly camber change to the point of the CV being shoved in too much, etc like I said I haven't mocked anything up yet.

3. Anyways, obviously your wheel/shock travel ratio is still the same with stock width. This means you need to either move the shock mount location or just add a longer shock. If you add a longer shock that could be built into the arm so the shock mount is integral inside of the arm or even under it (the shock sticks through the arm). Or, as said, change the mounting point more inward but then you have a higher wheel/shock ratio which means you need more damping etc.

Course, all of that would cost a bit of money and probably not save a whole lot besides the cost of longer brake lines and CVs over a true LT... I don't know, food for thought though maybe I'm over thinking it haha.

 

[absalom]

Just curious but how fast do you drive offroad and how fast will you plan on going after the new customized front end?

Fast. Faster.

Jokes aside, I've come to realize over a few years of offroading that I'd much rather be going fast. Or at least at a brisk pace. Crawling doesn't hold a huge amount of interest for me, though I can certainly understand it's appeal. I'd like my truck to be more composed over rough spots, big hits, washboards, etc. I know, I know ... the 4runner is hardly the best platform for long travel. That's ok! I still believe these trucks will benefit from a mild, well sorted mid-travel kit. Nothing extreme, and nothing requiring fiberglass fender flares. It'd be ideal if the wheels extended no further than if the driver had Spidertrax installed.

For those hoping to visualize what I'm looking for, please click on the below link. This is a complete long travel kit for the 2nd generation 4runner. It's very simple, using modified new OEM control arms. It's also very stout and well made per the reviews. All the homework concerning supporting mods has been done. Most importantly, it's doesn't cost as much as my ****ing truck (ahem -- TC or Camburg). The entire kit, less the required new axles, is $1,195. I don't see why we should be forced to pay $3,000 for $350 worth of materials. Now, admittedly, Blazeland is lacking on presentation. It's obvious they don't have a big webpage budget from years of charging huge amounts for LT kits.

2nd Generation Long Travel Kit​

 

[dtc81]

Most importantly, it's doesn't cost as much as my ****ing truck (ahem -- TC or Camburg). The entire kit, less the required new axles, is $1,195. I don't see why we should be forced to pay $3,000 for $350 worth of materials.

Don't forget that it's not just $350 in materials... There are A LOT of unseen factors that go into producing a product like their LT kits. Development and design, testing, equipment cost, payroll for the fabricators building said kits, let alone the overhead of keeping the lights on and welders burning in an operation like Camburg/TC. Those things are way more expensive than one may think, which directly affects the pricing of the finished product.

That being said- an affordable mid travel set up would be downright awesome for the 3rd gen market. I like where this thread is going!

 

[D Farms]

last weekend we wheeled with a guy who had that kit on his first gen, according to him it had 12" of travel up front and the rear solid axle only did about 6", but did more in an articulation scenario. the main thing that was nice was that the front actually flexed even though it was ifs.

a similar kit for the 3rd gen would include grinding the rivets on the forged lower ball joint mount, using a bracket of sorts to move it out, then cuting the uca and adding in metal to.lengthen it. and then t100 cvs. a weekend project if you have templates and access to a welder and cutting tools. you would also need new brake lines and tie rod end extensions, and probably some stiff stiff springs if a stock fitting coilover is used. id also do the poly bushings like i just did in my truck, and try to beef up the lca mounts, and the coilover bucket/ lower mount.

a more expensive version would have a whole new forged piece for the lower ball joint mount that would bolt in, and new upper control arms.

the only thing that would actually cost money is cv axles and brake lines. if you have a shop it could be a sub $300 job.

but someone has to figure out how long the extensions on the arms need to be. obviously the length of the t100 axles will dictate the length for the lower control arm, it would make sense that if you kept the spindle angle the same and extended everything out it would work, but im not sure.