Internal cage in 4th gen - Why does nobody have one?

[HutchOven]

I find it kind of surprising that I can't find a single 4th or 5th gen 4runner with an internal roll cage. I'm sure they are out there and I must not be searching right but the lack of them is alarming. A lot of brave people out there.

Can anyone point me to some builds where someone has one? I have a gx470 but I highly doubt anyone has one in a gx. I'll probably start on mine soon.

 

[aemravan]

What’s the rest of your build look like suspension wise? Most guys here dont crawl their rigs extreme enough to require a cage..


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[HutchOven]

What’s the rest of your build look like suspension wise? Most guys here dont crawl their rigs extreme enough to require a cage..


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35's is plenty to need a cage. Guys with 33's and 35's are usually more inexperienced than the guys with 40's.. Again, usually.

But to answer your question 37's, 60 rear, rclt front. I came from 42's but I want a better ride now. And I don't want a exo. Too much weight to strength ratio.

 

[BlairB]

The reason you don't see internal cages is they are part of a larger safety system and just doing one part of that system can actually make your car far more dangerous. If you run an internal cage and don't wear a helmet 100% of the time you risk turning a minor/no injury accident into a fatal one due to head injury. Just like a race harness with no cage, it is very dangerous.

I personally know someone that was driving a race truck between events without a helmet, ended up wrecking it and the accident almost killed him. He would have been fine in any normal car.

I am all for cages in the right rigs, but you need to be running a race seat, race harness and helmet.

A crawler rig that you trailer and tip over at slow speeds may be one thing, but if you are DDing it or running it at speed in the desert I wouldn't do it.

 

[HutchOven]

The reason you don't see internal cages is they are part of a larger safety system and just doing one part of that system can actually make your car far more dangerous. If you run an internal cage and don't wear a helmet 100% of the time you risk turning a minor/no injury accident into a fatal one due to head injury. Just like a race harness with no cage, it is very dangerous.

I personally know someone that was driving a race truck between events without a helmet, ended up wrecking it and the accident almost killed him. He would have been fine in any normal car.

I am all for cages in the right rigs, but you need to be running a race seat, race harness and helmet.

A crawler rig that you trailer and tip over at slow speeds may be one thing, but if you are DDing it or running it at speed in the desert I wouldn't do it.

That sounds like a one off accident or a very low cage in the vehicle. A gx has pretty good head room and can tuck the cage up pretty high. The fact you're saying that you're safer with no cage while offroading/rock crawling vs having a cage while on the street is pretty :crazy: I know plenty of stories of people who died or were seriously injured offroad because of a low speed roll.

Just Google "rolled 4runner". 90% of the pics are on dirt and 100% of them have no cage

 

[BlairB]

That sounds like a one off accident or a very low cage in the vehicle. A gx has pretty good head room and can tuck the cage up pretty high. The fact you're saying that you're safer with no cage while offroading/rock crawling vs having a cage while on the street is pretty :crazy: I know plenty of stories of people who died or were seriously injured offroad because of a low speed roll.

Just Google "rolled 4runner". 90% of the pics are on dirt and 100% of them have no cage

Just depends on your usage. If it is full time crawler you don't drive on road, sure but please put a harness in it. If it is your DD, I would strongly recommend against it.

A rear cage where your head has no physical way impact is generally fine, but putting any sort of bar work anywhere near your head inside the vehicle is a huge risk. Your body and head move a lot more than you realize in a collision (again, reason for a harness and why a cage should be viewed as part of a system) and any sort of rollcage worth a damn will be within that danger zone of your head. Very familiar with a GX since it is my DD.

Are you probably going to be fine in a low speed off road rollover with a cage? Probably, but you probably would be without a cage anyway unless you are rolling down Black Bear Pass. Are you making your car less safe for any other time you are driving it normally? Yes. A minor side impact can lead to a skull fracture. Period.

Google "roll cage daily driver" and read to your heart's content. There is a reason that very few people do it. Ultimately do what you want, but really do your research on this and I hope you get to the same conclusion I did years ago when I briefly considered it. Not trying to argue at all, just trying to look out! :bounce:

 

[aemravan]

While 90% are rolled on dirt and 100% are without cages may be true, it’s probably worth noting that if they were wearing a seatbelt they walked away with no injuries , at least not ones that a roll cage would have prevented.

Like mentioned above, there is certainly a use case for roll ages, but I fail to see a benefit to MOST guys in here who see 90% street and 10% dirt driving. You asked why you don’t see them .. well there you go lol. Having to run harness and helmet every time you get in the rig to wheel is kinda shitty if you’re a weekend off-roader like me and end up in and out of your rig 20 times during the trails

For the most of us that run trails with a risk of a rollover it’s probably laying the car on its side or worst case on it roof.. at slow speed so the benefit of a cage is kind of pointless. Unless like mentioned you’re planning on rolling down black bear you’re not going to be caving in your roof laying it over.

The benefit of an exo cage is retaining interior space with no added risk of head injury with a trade off in added weight. While it could also help protect the exterior body work it seems most guys go exocage AFTER they have laid the rig over and messed it up anyway lol


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[HutchOven]

Just depends...

While 90%...

They make tube padding for a reason. What's the difference between smacking your head on a padded tube or a padded steel A pillar?

Pretty rarely do you even see a exo 4th/5th gen. I personally think the reason I don't see many cages is the fact that you can't just buy it and bolt it on. Than people justify it by making excuses like "I could die by smacking my head on it".

I do see how harnesses should go with a cage but saying either both or none, I don't agree with. My old jeep had a interior cage and harnesses. Most of the time we just wore the lap belt. Never did my head even come close to that cage.

 

[rdruss]

I find it kind of surprising that I can't find a single 4th or 5th gen 4runner with an internal roll cage. I'm sure they are out there and I must not be searching right but the lack of them is alarming. A lot of brave people out there.

Can anyone point me to some builds where someone has one? I have a gx470 but I highly doubt anyone has one in a gx. I'll probably start on mine soon.

Check out the "Sherpa" build, they modified a 4th gen for racing and fabricated/installed a full cage.

 

[BlairB]

They make tube padding for a reason. What's the difference between smacking your head on a padded tube or a padded steel A pillar?

Pretty rarely do you even see a exo 4th/5th gen. I personally think the reason I don't see many cages is the fact that you can't just buy it and bolt it on. Than people justify it by making excuses like "I could die by smacking my head on it".

I do see how harnesses should go with a cage but saying either both or none, I don't agree with. My old jeep had a interior cage and harnesses. Most of the time we just wore the lap belt. Never did my head even come close to that cage.

You are entitled to your opinion. You started a thread asking why you don't see them. A few people now have given the same reason. If you don't want to listen, why even start a thread?

Also, to your comment on the injury thing being an excuse for there not being bolt in options. I would personally be happy to pay a cage builder to fab something for my 4Runner if it made it safer for my use case (which is a rig 100% used for trips and off roading, not even a DD). It doesn't, so I haven't. I have spent the past nearly 15 years in the automotive industry and am far closer to occupant safety than 99.9999% of people out there and I know for a fact I am making the right call for me and my family.

Ultimately do what you want, but I don't want others reading the thread and thinking putting a cage in their rig will make them safer in most cases. It absolutely can, but you need to know what you are getting into.

Good luck with whatever you decide you want to do.

 

[BackOff]

There was another one too.
That guy that did a King of the Hammers build, with that Marlin Crawler front end.

 

[BlairB]

There was another one too.
That guy that did a King of the Hammers build, with that Marlin Crawler front end.

That truck is currently for sale! Steel City Racing.

 

[randy88fj62]

The vehicle design is pretty good for a one time crash. I own a rock crawling FJ62 Landcruiser and my dirt princess 4Runner. Neither have a cage and I've never felt the need for one.

They are heavy and I personally don't see a need for one. As mentioned above there are the two KOH racing 4Runners that had to have cages mandatory.

 

[HutchOven]

You are entitled to your opinion. I know for a fact I am making the right call for me and my family.

I would think for kids in the rear, a cage is absolutely necessary. And there is no risk of smacking their head. I posted this just hoping for a couple guys that had done it and I just missed it. TONS of 1st and 2nd gen guys have internal cages and nobody seems to regret it and I don't see them wearing Helmets.

This is not my DD so ease of getting in and out isn't an issue. It will be driven on the road though. If it's a DD than it's probably not much of a serious offroader and more of a casual crawler or "overlander" build so I can see a cage not being necessary. Obviously I'm not going as hardcore as the Koh guys but maybe somewhere slightly headed in that direction so I will be doing a cage, just not as hardcore as those.

There is a in between of "rolling off black bear pass" and a light roll and that's where I want my cage build to land.

Check out the "Sherpa" build, they modified a 4th gen for racing and fabricated/installed a full cage.

There was another one too.
That guy that did a King of the Hammers build, with that Marlin Crawler front end.

Thanks for those constructive suggestions guys. I don't think I'm going that gnarly on a cage but I'll take a look and see if they have some good pics on how they did it. I really only need to see the dash area. The rest of the cage is easy.

 

[TDIdiver26]

You may be surprised how much your body moves during a crash impact. I responded to a vehicle crash one day (actually happened right behind me as I pulled into an apartment complex to go use their bathroom - talk about bad timing) where the at-fault driver (crossed a 4-lane divided highway in front of oncoming traffic because she wasn't paying attention) was struck by another vehicle in the B pillar and the impact shot her car down into a ditch. The at-fault driver was wearing a seatbelt and it was still buckled.

When her car came to rest in the ditch on the opposite side of the road, she was literally being held in the car by the seatbelt, which was holding her in by the right ankle and that's it. Her upper torso was hanging completely out of the passenger side window and she was 100% unresponsive. Granted, she was a tiny individual, but still - I'd never seen that before, and haven't seen anything like it since.

 

[BackOff]

That truck is currently for sale! Steel City Racing.

Can drop that off in front of my house, please and thank you...


...is there a "for sale" site? For the Steel City Racing 4runner?

 

[HutchOven]

You may be surprised how much your body moves during a crash impact. I responded to a vehicle crash one day (actually happened right behind me as I pulled into an apartment complex to go use their bathroom - talk about bad timing) where the at-fault driver (crossed a 4-lane divided highway in front of oncoming traffic because she wasn't paying attention) was struck by another vehicle in the B pillar and the impact shot her car down into a ditch. The at-fault driver was wearing a seatbelt and it was still buckled.

When her car came to rest in the ditch on the opposite side of the road, she was literally being held in the car by the seatbelt, which was holding her in by the right ankle and that's it. Her upper torso was hanging completely out of the passenger side window and she was 100% unresponsive. Granted, she was a tiny individual, but still - I'd never seen that before, and haven't seen anything like it since.

Oh I believe it! I've been in quite a few crashes. I use to race and rolled end over end twice followed by 4 barrel rolls. Had a cage and I was wearing a helmet and harnesses. Still had some significant damage to my body but definitely saved my life.

But in that case I was traveling very fast and I have plenty of other personal examples to know exactly what I want cage wise. Just looking for something to save my life in a mild to minor roll, not a rally car cage to save me off a cliff. So it will be tucked up high, padded and moderately reinforced.

 

[pauldub]

You should consider that a cage will likely interfere with the performance of the various side airbags. I'd think a little research would should that the rollover performance of the as-designed structure will easily suffice for a reasonable rollover. Comparing to a gen1 or gen2 is an apples to oranges comparison as the federal roll survival standards have changed drastically in the last 25+ years.

 

[aemravan]

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