Introduction - 2000 4Runner

[GrassFed]

Howdy guys,

I recently picked up a 3rd gen 4Runner. I've been looking at these forums for a decent amount of time, even before I actually owned a 4Runner. I finally made the plunge.

I am now the proud and eager to get it running right owner of a 2000 4Runner with Multi-mode and RR differential lock.

Here's the problem, it runs incredibly rough, and codes P302, 306 consistently. I have gotten a misfire on #1 before but it isn't there all the time like the 2 and 6 are. After driving it home about 65 miles, and not losing any coolant, overheating or getting the misfires on neighboring cylinders I thought the head gasket to be unlikely.

I hope this will make some of you laugh - when I took off the intake tubing and resonator and tilted it to the side oil came draining out of it, not just a little either, maybe a good 1/8th of a quart or so.

After delving a little deeper I came across some sucking at the tailpipe and sludge city under the valve covers. Hoping it was an out of spec valve causing the sucking and ultimately the misfire, I feeler gauged the #2 cylinder exhaust valves and they were still in spec, though at the tight side .011-.012. Could the valves be burned if they are still in spec?

At the moment I am looking at used engines to install in this 4Runner. I did not make sense to me to put fresh heads on a neglected engine coming up on 200,000 miles. Am I stupid to think this? The bottom end could be in good enough shape for me to fix the head. It seems like when it is all said and done I'll be a couple hundred away from a used lower mile engine. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't, I'm just unsure if that is a better route here. I'll be doing the labor either way. Anyhoo, now I am shopping around trying to find a decent used engine to pop in this guy and get the ball rolling. Found one from a local yard but did not receive the engine I ordered. Old style with EGR and old style injectors. I opted for a refund which is in progress and will keep looking when it all goes through.

I look forward to participating and contributing to this community hopefully a fraction of what y'all have helped me with.

Here are a few pics

Thank you in advance for all of the help and generosity.


Matt

 

[Drogo99]

That sludge looks pretty rough, poor engine.

Good luck on the search for a new one, excited to see what you do with it once it's back up and running!

 

[Scramble]

Hello & welcome, holy sludge city Batman! I'll let someone smarter than me give you advise on repairing your engine. Remember that a used engine is a crap shoot because you probably wont know the history of that one either.
If your not overheating your bottom end is probably still good. If the previous owner overheated it your engine bearings could be toast. Good Luck.

PS: I love the little Toyota emblem on the grill. Not! ound:

 

[etc.]

There's probably still a lot of life in that motor.

 

[etc.]

I would go to BITOG and find a sludge removal procedure you're comfortable with.

 

[jeremyc74]

I was thinking you were probably going overboard with the engine swap until I saw the pics of the cams. Damn....someone REALLY neglected this thing.

Motor swap is probably your best bet. Good luck with your search. It will be worth it in the end. That's the best year! :iagree:

 

[michaelj]

Yea that is ugly. You could try to clean it. But a motor swap or a flush and cleaning are both crap shoots. To save $$, I would probably try cleaning that thing out first. But that is just me.

 

[GrassFed]

Thank you for the responses everyone. Am I going too overboard with a swap? When I pulled the valve covers I picked and vacuum'd as well as used compressed air to clean, collect and blow out as much as I could. One thing that alarms me is that it isn't a real easy job to drop the oil pan and clean the oil pickup with the front diff. I'd love to break into this engine and redo the appropriate gaskets on the way back in. I've always wanted to break into an engine and do some work. As far as I know it has not overheated and currently is not overheating. I'm not getting any crazy blue smoke or anything out of the tailpipe, so if there is any chance a rebuild might do me well I'm all for it. Whatever repair I do, I don't need 200k out of it as I will be using a different vehicle for most of my travels and using this one mostly for beach, camping, and fly fishing/ mountain things. In other words it won't be getting a ton of usage.

Thank you all for the suggestions and comments. Any and all input is welcome.

Matt

 

[etc.]

Thank you for the responses everyone. Am I going too overboard with a swap? When I pulled the valve covers I picked and vacuum'd as well as used compressed air to clean, collect and blow out as much as I could. One thing that alarms me is that it isn't a real easy job to drop the oil pan and clean the oil pickup with the front diff. I'd love to break into this engine and redo the appropriate gaskets on the way back in. I've always wanted to break into an engine and do some work. As far as I know it has not overheated and currently is not overheating. I'm not getting any crazy blue smoke or anything out of the tailpipe, so if there is any chance a rebuild might do me well I'm all for it. Whatever repair I do, I don't need 200k out of it as I will be using a different vehicle for most of my travels and using this one mostly for beach, camping, and fly fishing/ mountain things. In other words it won't be getting a ton of usage.

Thank you all for the suggestions and comments. Any and all input is welcome.

Matt

I personally think you are going overboard.

You'd be surprised with today's oils, filters and some chemicals on terms of what they're capable of. You want the truck to slowly dissolve the gunk. It's when you try to save time and dislodge solid pieces is when you'll have oil delivery issues.

I would personally read up on the issue and find a process you will be comfortable with.

10w30 Mobil 1 High Mileage Synthetic has one of the best cleaning packages of any oil.

 

[michaelj]

I never rebuild an engine as long as I have good compression. Just no reason to in my opinion. I have never removed the oil pan on my runner, so someone else would need to chime in here. I would just change the oil with a high quality oil and good filter. Run it for a bit and change it again. Let the good oil clean it all out for you.

 

[Biotex]

I agree with etc. above ^.

Check the compression, clean out the sludge manually the best you can, and put her back together. Run some sea foam in the oil and then keep changing the filters. After you get her somewhat clean then you can run Mobile 1 synthetic.

I bet most of your run issues are with a dirty throttle body and IAC.

 

[trovergraywilson]

I would just change the oil with a high quality oil and good filter. Run it for a bit and change it again. Let the good oil clean it all out for you.

This. If you're taking care of the truck already, bit by bit, she'll come back to life. Plus, you'll get to know what else needs work. I've never seen sludge that bad but it's not a death sentence. Start with a tune-up. Good luck, cool grill in the pics.

 

[ajonesnv]

I have good heads in my garage...two exhaust valves need to be rebuilt, but other than that the heads are good to go.

 

[SnowLizard]

marvel mystery oil... 100, 200, 200, 500, 500 mile oil filter changes, topping off the oil with mobile 1 high mileage. and 500 mile oil changes

after 1500 miles take the covers off and check cleanliness.

miss fire - change plugs (OEM is $6 per plug, just go to dealership) and pick up a napa set of sparkplug wires should be done every 30k miles (from look of sludge probably hasn't been done.

clean MAF, and throttle boddy, IAC... and adjust your throttle cable.

repace your fuel filter too and run a bottle of seafoam in tank to clean injectors.

this should clean your engine in an even 2-3month period. like stated before, don't do it all at once as big dislodges can plug oil galleys

edit: dont' run just marvel mystery oil, just a bottle mixed with mobile 1 high mileage, just in case someone misinterpreted that.

 

[GrassFed]

Wow, thank you everyone for all of the responses. Correct, I have yet to compression test it, although with the sucking at the tailpipe I reckon it'll be minimal to none on at least one of the cylinders with the misfire having the exhaust valve/s open on the intake stroke.

ajonesnv - That could be very promising thank you for the line and I'd like to take you up on that if I wind up in that situation.

What I have done is, new plugs on the misfiring cyliners, as well as new wires, and injectors on all 6. I figured even if it wouldn't save this engine, I'll have them on hand down the road for a swap or a rebuild.

--Wouldn't the valves have to be out of spec tight to lead to a burned valve? With the limited knowledge I have of the ins and outs of a combustion engine with overhead cams, I don't understand how the valves could burn if they are still in spec? Please feel free to put me in my place, I love learning about all of this stuff and you all are an incredibly helpful resource. Is it possible that all of the neglect lead to deposits that aren't allowing the exhaust valves to seat properly?

Anyhow, I cannot thank you all enough for giving me the time of day and helping me along with the process.

If any of you are local to the Southern California area, specifically Orange County (South) Mission Viejo. Feel free to give me a shout if you need hands with a project or the like.

Is there any surefire way to tell if my bottom end is worth taking a chance on putting fresh heads on? Besides possibly a leakage test? What about the rods and bearings?

Man I really cannot stand the grill the previous owner put on there. Such a half ass job. Clips broken to where it wiggles and jiggles, the mesh is zip tied on there. I'd love to get a regular grill back once I get the big dogs out of the way with this process.




Matt

 

[808islerunner]

How about running some of that gunk brand 10 min. Oil flush or cleaner or something like that, then add some fresh oil and a new filter

 

[GrassFed]

I am all ears. I am definitely open to trying to clean it out internally to see if that helps at all. The only problem I run into with some of the longer internal cleaning procedures is that if I run it and get anywhere above around 1500 my CEL blinks - I'm running the risk of fouling my cats. I see the side where you could say , just unhook the cat from the car so you don't ruin it. Problem here is, I don't think it would fly running a car around the neighborhood with it so loud as well as the fact that it isn't registered because I cannot smog it yet in its current condition. Hooray California...

So that really leaves me with very short trips for cleaning ie. Around the neighborhood or even a flush at idle in my driveway.

Thank you again for the help.

Matt

 

[SnowLizard]

I totally forgot, my 65 mustang had bad buildup (not sludge) when I first got it, and didn't know too much, someone suggested running 1qt ATF around for 15-30mins, I thought, that's crazy, but sure enough it worked like a charm on my old valve train. drain and flush when done.

sadly that's for an old mech i6 engine (hydraulic lifters though) so I'm sure it's suicide for these modern engines.

side note: 10k miles later I rebuilt the engine cause of bad piston rings

moral of the story, go slow, and don't force, be nice to her and she'll be good.

 

[littlehandegan]

Cant wait to see some before and afters pictures after a few 200 miles oil change intervals with additives.

 

[cutlass]

Thank you for the responses everyone. Am I going too overboard with a swap? When I pulled the valve covers I picked and vacuum'd as well as used compressed air to clean, collect and blow out as much as I could. One thing that alarms me is that it isn't a real easy job to drop the oil pan and clean the oil pickup with the front diff. I'd love to break into this engine and redo the appropriate gaskets on the way back in. I've always wanted to break into an engine and do some work. As far as I know it has not overheated and currently is not overheating. I'm not getting any crazy blue smoke or anything out of the tailpipe, so if there is any chance a rebuild might do me well I'm all for it. Whatever repair I do, I don't need 200k out of it as I will be using a different vehicle for most of my travels and using this one mostly for beach, camping, and fly fishing/ mountain things. In other words it won't be getting a ton of usage.

Thank you all for the suggestions and comments. Any and all input is welcome.

Matt

I've heard before that these engines were built with such high quality control in the factory in Japan, that a rebuild done on these engines by one of us will not yield the same reliable outcome of the factory built engines.

This information I've heard about this might be total hogwash too. I have no experience in rebuilding one of these engines.