Is a trans swap possible?

[Jetboy]

Question for the ECU experts. I've mostly been curious about the potential of this for a long time, but never known if it was actually possible electronically.

The A750F and A760F share the exact same gear train with one exception of a single coast drum part internally. They also share the same housing. The primary difference is the solenoid set. Using the same 2 planetary assemblies and 7 clutch packs they simply added a 6th configuration of clutch engagement and added the 6th gear. I think it's kinda ridiculous that the 5th gen didn't get the 6AT because the difference in transmissions internally is almost nothing. The cost to add the 6AT would be nearly zero.

I'm fairly confident that the 6AT would bolt in and also that the ECU would communicate with it to run gears 1-5. So... does anyone know if it would be plausible that the ECU would function or could function with the 6AT to run gear 6? I have no idea how you'd know whether the ECU map includes 6th gear if available. And/or what would be required to connect them.

I'm not serious about doing the swap - mostly curious if any of the electronics experts know much about the transmission control functions.

 

[4runr4eva]

Question for the ECU experts. I've mostly been curious about the potential of this for a long time, but never known if it was actually possible electronically.

The A750F and A760F share the exact same gear train with one exception of a single coast drum part internally. They also share the same housing. The primary difference is the solenoid set. Using the same 2 planetary assemblies and 7 clutch packs they simply added a 6th configuration of clutch engagement and added the 6th gear. I think it's kinda ridiculous that the 5th gen didn't get the 6AT because the difference in transmissions internally is almost nothing. The cost to add the 6AT would be nearly zero.

I'm fairly confident that the 6AT would bolt in and also that the ECU would communicate with it to run gears 1-5. So... does anyone know if it would be plausible that the ECU would function or could function with the 6AT to run gear 6? I have no idea how you'd know whether the ECU map includes 6th gear if available. And/or what would be required to connect them.

I'm not serious about doing the swap - mostly curious if any of the electronics experts know much about the transmission control functions.

I dont think I am qualified to answer, but I would be more interested in a 6 speed manual transmission. That would make our 5th gens beasts. :lookout:

 

[Turfboy]

I would think you have to get into the ECU program to evaluate it. It is kind of like the development of the supercharger where everything runs through the computer and while the mechanical side gets solved relatively quickly, no one knows how the electronics will respond. My guess :crazy: is the whole enchilada is wrapped together (throttle, emissions, speed, gearing) but now that you bring it up someone on the site is bound to try it and I can watch. :snacker:

 

[hasoon2000]

I would think you have to get into the ECU program to evaluate it. It is kind of like the development of the supercharger where everything runs through the computer and while the mechanical side gets solved relatively quickly, no one knows how the electronics will respond. My guess :crazy: is the whole enchilada is wrapped together (throttle, emissions, speed, gearing) but now that you bring it up someone on the site is bound to try it and I can watch. :snacker:

This.

All the computers would have to be updated. Also, if Toyota issues a major fix that is performed by an ECU update, a lot of fun stuff can occur with modified software. Ex: Bricks the ECU (unlikely, but it's possible), reverts the ECU to the original state and the other computers can't receive the proper signal anymore and many other varieties of issues can pop up. You'd need a very good tuner/programmer to do all this and it won't be cheap.

 

[jrandom]

You'd need a very good tuner/programmer to do all this and it won't be cheap.

Well, there was someone who wanted a solid front axle 5th gen...

 

[Jetboy]

I dont think I am qualified to answer, but I would be more interested in a 6 speed manual transmission. That would make our 5th gens beasts. :lookout:

There should be an OEM ECU already built for that. The Prado 150 was offered in other markets with a dual vvti 4.0 and 6MT. Also the FJ Cruiser had the same option for a number of years. 6MT should be - relatively - easy to swap in.

 

[Pathfinder!]

I dont think I am qualified to answer, but I would be more interested in a 6 speed manual transmission. That would make our 5th gens beasts. :lookout:

:guitar3:

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

I heard an urban legend about a guy in Florida that put an FJ 6M in a 5th gen 4Runner. No proof tho. The person I heard it from claims to have seen it. I asked how well the clutch pedal and fork adapted over, he replied that the core support for the dash, steering column, and pedals were all the same as the FJs.

 

[4runr4eva]

There should be an OEM ECU already built for that. The Prado 150 was offered in other markets with a dual vvti 4.0 and 6MT. Also the FJ Cruiser had the same option for a number of years. 6MT should be - relatively - easy to swap in.

Damn, I was hoping it would be a no go, now I am curious. I have only had 3 cars in my life. My last two were manual transmissions and I miss them. Now, I need to convince myself to wait for my warranty to expire.

 

[Jetboy]

I would not want an MT for daily driving or for most offroad duty. The only place I think that the MT is really an advantage is in deep snow. Otherwise I'd prefer an AT in rocks, sand, mud, etc. If you want to go play in the rocks I think you'd really need to combine the 6MT with a double transfer case setup.

 

[Hans Moleman]

Are there any foreign Toyota/Lexus models that use 1GRFE / A760F combo?

 

[Jetboy]

Are there any foreign Toyota/Lexus models that use 1GRFE / A760F combo?

I believe so - but they are few and far between.

I think in the Netherlands there was a Prado 150 VX model that used the 4.0 dual vvti and a760f. Finding an ECU part number for one?? I think there may be a fortuner vxr dual vvti 1GR and 6at also. I have no idea how compatible the ECUs are with the 4runner. Usually the foreign dual vvti is still only rated for 235hp. I'm guessing it has a different tune?

 

[baysta]

Don't want to necro a thread, but I'm very interested. [MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION], have you made any progress with this research?

 

[WhiteRunner10]

Question for the ECU experts. I've mostly been curious about the potential of this for a long time, but never known if it was actually possible electronically.

The A750F and A760F share the exact same gear train with one exception of a single coast drum part internally. They also share the same housing. The primary difference is the solenoid set. Using the same 2 planetary assemblies and 7 clutch packs they simply added a 6th configuration of clutch engagement and added the 6th gear. I think it's kinda ridiculous that the 5th gen didn't get the 6AT because the difference in transmissions internally is almost nothing. The cost to add the 6AT would be nearly zero.

I'm fairly confident that the 6AT would bolt in and also that the ECU would communicate with it to run gears 1-5. So... does anyone know if it would be plausible that the ECU would function or could function with the 6AT to run gear 6? I have no idea how you'd know whether the ECU map includes 6th gear if available. And/or what would be required to connect them.

I'm not serious about doing the swap - mostly curious if any of the electronics experts know much about the transmission control functions.

You ever get an answer on this?

 

[borfoo3]

I believe so - but they are few and far between.

I think in the Netherlands there was a Prado 150 VX model that used the 4.0 dual vvti and a760f. Finding an ECU part number for one?? I think there may be a fortuner vxr dual vvti 1GR and 6at also. I have no idea how compatible the ECUs are with the 4runner. Usually the foreign dual vvti is still only rated for 235hp. I'm guessing it has a different tune?

Are there any foreign Toyota/Lexus models that use 1GRFE / A760F combo?

Just to share some of our GCC spec'd trucks:
Prado's come with the v6 1GR-FE dvvt-i and AC60F 6-speed automatic transmission. They are also all full-time 4WD just like the Land Cruiser LC200.

We get the LC200 in several drivetrains:
1GR-FE Gasoline Engine 4.0L - has the 6 speed auto (previously had the 5 speed auto). Full-time 4WD
FE-1UR Engine Gasoline V8 4.6L - has the 6 speed automatic. Full-time 4WD
FE-3UR Engine Gasoline V8 5.7L - has the 8 speed automatic. Full-time 4WD

The fortuner comes in 1GR-FE and 6 speed auto as well, but with part-time 4WD

In comparison to the above, Toyota has plenty of proven options for the 4Runner. A 4.6L v8 with 6-speed version is enough for me layball:

 

[Jetboy]

Don't want to necro a thread, but I'm very interested. [MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION], have you made any progress with this research?

No. I haven't followed up. I've been swamped with work for about the last year to the point that I'm working almost every day (including weekends). So my wrench time is very limited. After a bit more thought on it I do think you'd have to combine it with at least 4.56, but probably 4.88 diff gears to really use the extra OD.

 

[Whippersnapper02]

It would probably be easier to use a 1GR to GM transmission adapter and an aftermarket tranny ECU such as TCI just because you have the option of an aftermarket ECU. Then you'll need a GM style transfercase.

 

[baysta]

It would probably be easier to use a 1GR to GM transmission adapter and an aftermarket tranny ECU such as TCI just because you have the option of an aftermarket ECU. Then you'll need a GM style transfercase.

The point of the discussion here is to see two near-identical trannies with the difference of a couple solenoids, and how one could potentially give us a 6th gear without much extra work. I don't see how your suggestion would be any easier or any more useful, if it costs more and requires more parts to be replaced.

 

[Whippersnapper02]

The point of the discussion here is to see two near-identical trannies with the difference of a couple solenoids, and how one could potentially give us a 6th gear without much extra work. I don't see how your suggestion would be any easier or any more useful, if it costs more and requires more parts to be replaced.

See below post:

I would think you have to get into the ECU program to evaluate it. It is kind of like the development of the supercharger where everything runs through the computer and while the mechanical side gets solved relatively quickly, no one knows how the electronics will respond. My guess :crazy: is the whole enchilada is wrapped together (throttle, emissions, speed, gearing) but now that you bring it up someone on the site is bound to try it and I can watch. :snacker:

"A couple of extra solenoids" could mean a different ECU, different wiring and maybe different external sensors. Replacement would be easier than digging into the harness and trying to find the correct ECU that will probably come from overseas. Will that ECU work with the VATS system in the US? Will it communicate with the 4wd ECU? US cluster? A couple of extra solenoids can add up to a lot more work than you think.

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

The overall transmission choices Toyota made in the 5th have always been one of my main complaints. I feel like a 6AT would go a long way to fixing that. Unfortunately, I am guessing the price for a swap would be comparable to simply going for a used GX....free V8!