Is anybody else experiencing swaying back and forth on the highway?

[1engineer]

Mike, I think you are trying to pick a fight; I really like how your comments have that backhanded swipe to them; 'too scared', 'more experience', 'barely applicable'. Yes, you're right, I'm comparing to my '18 year old truck' -with the same tires I had on my FJ- to my new 4R, but so what? I don't like the way the new 4R handles in comparison. Apparently this is an issue for alot of us, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist. When I go to the local tire shop and say "SeattleMike on the internet said it would handle better, and I want my money back if it doesn't", and then he laughs, should I just tell him to f--- off? Or should I reserve that comment for you?

When I got my 4Runner in February of this year, I experienced many of the same symptoms as you. My truck was felt extremely light, no effort was required to steer, steering felt numb, crosswinds were scary, and the truck "wandered" for apparently no reason. In addition, I had a small vibration at around 70 mph which was common to many of us too. It did not feel right at all. I had about 300 miles on it then. I have a 2011 SR5 4X4 with the OEM Bridgestones btw with no mods. Here is what I did with the results:

1. Drove on interstate, both concrete and blacktop - Noticed the pavement driving was slightly better and the concrete that had worn places and slight grooves caused my truck to "wander" bit. Blacktop was better.
2. Examined the tires - Everything looked fine with no bulges or anything
3. Checked tire pressures - Holy crap, 44 psi!!! From the dealer new!!!
4. Tested vehicle at various pressures of 40, 38, 35 and 32 psi - Drove vehicle after each pressure adjustment a minimum of 5 miles on interstate. Could definitely feel difference after each adjustment.

Remember, this was a brand new vehicle and I "assumed" that everything was correct from the dealer. I took it on a trip the day after I bought it and after 300 miles on interstate noticed these symptoms. It was not right and I started the troublshooting process. My next step was going to be to check alignment and drive another 4Runner on interstate if what I did made no difference. Every pressure delta on the tires caused a very different driving experience. Remember I only had 300 miles on it so tires were brand new. As I decreased pressure, the steering became a bit heavier and the vehicle became more stable to drive. When I got to 35 psi it felt much different and better. I went to 32 psi and noticed it becoming a bit spongy in handling so ultimately I aired up to 35 psi and it felt fine for my driving style. I now have 6K on the odometer with no problems. I agree with Mike and think it is the stock tires. I will change them before winter but for now I can live with it. I also agree with Harper on the camber and will check on it at my first alignment (thanks for the data harper). Now, before I got on here and started complaining about a problem I decided to check as much as I could beforehand so I would have data if I needed to ask any questions. My data DID NOT include comparing my truck to another vehicle type because that means nothing, as it is comparing apples to oranges. Also changing power steering pump size will only effect the speed (flow) of the steering. To change (increase) the effort you need to drop the pressure in the power steering loop.

I just got back from a 600 mile trip. It was very windy and my vehicle was blown around a bit but I attribute that to it having a higher cross sectional area than usual for me. Tires won't keep the wind from blowing and neither will a power steering pump. Mike speaks from experience as do many of us. I politely just outlined my initial problem, troublshooting procedures and solution along with the results. Have you did anything yet? Check pressures, check alignments, drove another 4Runner etc?

 

[1engineer]

The thing is,most shops are looking to just get it in specs and have all green lights like the factory did. Then they can point to the printout and say see...within specs. They don't want to mess with the eccentrics on the LCA's to get more caster because it can be a pain. Changing Caster throws out camber and toe-in and it takes someone who knows what they're doing to get it right.One thing affects the other.

I'd bet alot of you complaining about loose steering have caster set close to minimum.And,If you have a 3 inch lift with stock UCA's they have a hard time even getting the 2.5 thus the need for aftermarket UCA's.
Read and learn what's going on with caster settings and how it affects steering. How caster affects steering


Harper,

Please excuse my ignorance, , could you define “UCA’s” and LCA” as used in your post above? It was as usual, very informative. Filling in the blanks would be most beneficial to me. Thanks in advance.

UCA= Upper Control Arm
LCA= Lower Control Arm

These are front suspension components. Also commonly called a double wishbone suspension named after the shape of the UCA and LCA.

 

[Jtraskell]

UCA= Upper Control Arm
LCA= Lower Control Arm

These are front suspension components. Also commonly called a double wishbone suspension named after the shape of the UCA and LCA.

Ah, thanks so much 1engineer.

 

[scanny]

My T4R came with underinflated tires, even worse - each tire had different pressure from 28 to 31 psi. I have 36 psi now and truck is pretty stable on the road. Strong winds is affecting ride on highway, but I wouldn't say that it worse than '06 Ford Explorer or '08 Escape.

 

[SeattleMike]

Mike, I think you are trying to pick a fight; I really like how your comments have that backhanded swipe to them; 'too scared', 'more experience', 'barely applicable'. Yes, you're right, I'm comparing to my '18 year old truck' -with the same tires I had on my FJ- to my new 4R, but so what? I don't like the way the new 4R handles in comparison. Apparently this is an issue for alot of us, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist. When I go to the local tire shop and say "SeattleMike on the internet said it would handle better, and I want my money back if it doesn't", and then he laughs, should I just tell him to f--- off? Or should I reserve that comment for you?

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

The thing is, there are many threads like this. It's been discussed for more than a year on this forum alone. A simple search for tire threads will back up what I have been trying to explain. Reading them will reveal that people who swap out the tires notice an immediate improvement in handling, both in tracking and steering feel.

Or you can continue on thinking you are right and everyone else is wrong, I really don't care. I was trying to correct a serious misconception, but you can tell me to f--k off if it makes you feel better.

 

[Antman]

:snacker::snacker:

 

[Jtraskell]

Gusty cross winds and as much square footage as the 4Runner has on the sides and you'll feel it. Mines not unstable or white knuckle type by any means though.

I've mentioned this before......Here's a little tip to help correct the wandering and loose steering besides changing the junk oem tires. Next time you get an alignment.Go to an alignment shop that knows what they are doing and have them put in max pos caster.The limits are 2.5-4.0. IMO,you want close to 4.0 or more on these 5ths and they ride alot more stable.That is moving the front wheels forward to get more pos. caster.

The thing is,most shops are looking to just get it in specs and have all green lights like the factory did. Then they can point to the printout and say see...within specs. They don't want to mess with the eccentrics on the LCA's to get more caster because it can be a pain. Changing Caster throws out camber and toe-in and it takes someone who knows what they're doing to get it right.One thing affects the other.

I'd bet alot of you complaining about loose steering have caster set close to minimum.And,If you have a 3 inch lift with stock UCA's they have a hard time even getting the 2.5 thus the need for aftermarket UCA's.

Read and learn what's going on with caster settings and how it affects steering. How caster affects steering

I aligned mine myself the first time to get it close after the lift and you can see where I was .Here's a printout of my first alignment at the shop. I changed UCA's again and the this time I had my caster set at 4.8,where it;s at now, which is technically out of Toyota's limits.I was working with the guy and he would set it where I wanted but not give a print out out of limits. Now it rides stable enough that I can take my hands off the wheel on the highway and it tracks straight.

I just wanted to extend a public thanks to Harper for the above post. Ever since I bought my rig, noticed that the steering was VERY touchy. There was no resistance when I turned the wheel. I could steer this thing with no effort just using my little finger on one hand! That to me was way too loose. Once I got the Caster adjusted to 4.0 on the right wheel, and 3.75 on the left one, what a difference. The vehicle tracks well and I now have just the right amount of resistance when steering. Thanks bud. Be safe.

 

[31GeoEng]

What are the chances of getting Toyota to do the alignment under warranty to the 4.0 caster mentioned by harper7.

Seems to be a $35k truck should not ride like it does from the factory. I only have 3k miles on mine.

I have some of the symptoms mentioned (excessive wander made worse in cross winds).

Will the 4.0 caster help even with stock tires?

Thanks

 

[Jtraskell]

What are the chances of getting Toyota to do the alignment under warranty to the 4.0 caster mentioned by harper7.

Seems to be a $35k truck should not ride like it does from the factory. I only have 3k miles on mine.

I have some of the symptoms mentioned (excessive wander made worse in cross winds).

Will the 4.0 caster help even with stock tires?

Thanks

Geo, I can tell you that mine had the same problems with the OEM and with the aftermarket Michelin tires I put on. As to the dealer changing the caster, if you complain enough about steering problems they for sure should put it on the alignment rack. Once there, if you do not talk to the person doing the alignment, I fear they will only check to see if it is within specs as discussed by Harper above. I would print Harpers post, and maybe mine too, have it in your pocket. Once the person has it on the rack, just go back there and talk to him and or the service manager and relay your issues and the possible resolution as discussed in the posts. (I would go the service mgr, not the service writer).

Just a note, Harper said 2.5 to 4.0 but if you look at the collision repair manual the numbers are slightly different. Since the guy I was taking mine too for the change wanted something official to go by before he made any changes (he did not have computer alignment tools, he did it the old way with gages etc.) I went to the Toyota stealer and asked what there computer alignment machine said what the specs should be. They came up with 3.22 +/- .75. At that time, the guy I wanted to do the work had already measured my caster as 2.30 on the right and 3.0 on the left. From there I could have insisted that Toyota put it on the rack and get it to specs, but that would not guarantee me that they would set it at the 4.0 area I wanted. And since my guy already went through the trouble of checking it for me at no charge, I felt obligated to have him do the final work. And for the 60.00 to have the job done the way I wanted, I trusted him a great deal more then the dealer. You might want to spend the money and just have it done outside the dealer.

 

[scenic-seeker]

I don't know if you resolved your problems but one consideration would be
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/perfo...argers-more/173-tire-balancing-must-read.html
The gsp9700 road force tire balance only cost me $30 for the front. It corrected my "drifting" maybe the same as you describe as "wander" in my 4th gen. Now she drives straight as an arrow.

 

[limamike]

I just finished a 5,000+ mile trip out to Montana from DC. I had a tall load on my roof rack and drove through 40-50 mph crosswinds at highway speeds. I didn't notice "swaying" as much as I did wind push. That is to say, what I experienced was normal by my standards where I had to steer into the wind in order to stay in a straight line. I don't think it's a factor of the traction control, and I didn't notice the vehicle fighting me or swaying under my control.

 

[nlrunner]

My 2018 SR5 is terrible on the highway in wind. Moving all over the road, and you have to counter steer all the time to correct. I was kinda blaming it on the high sidewall tires, but don't know if that's the only problem. Very annoying and making me want to get rid of it. Only bought it in March of 2017. 8000kms.
Because of the stupid 15 post rule, I had to vent here.

 

[PocketRocket]

nlrunner. Here is your answer

nl runner, the reason your 4Runner maybe all over the highway, is because your 4Runner may need a little weight in the front. I had similar symptoms on mine... I added a Curt Manufacturing Front Mount Receiver Hitch Model 31198 Firs 2007 to 2018

After the install much more control... let us know how it turns out...

 

[eredinger]

So I have the same issue. I drive between Sacramento and Walnut Creek a few times a week. The section of 680 where the trees are at a 45 deg angle is the worst. It's worse now that I added the lift 2.5" and 1" in the rear. I believe it has to do with a combination of different things. Tires, weight in the front end, road grooves, and overall boxiness of the truck. My plan is to change out the tires and pick up a C4 lo-pro front bumper and winch. Hoping this will fix most of the issues.