Is my 3 mile commute bad for my 4r?

Flyingbread1

New member
I started a new job that is 3 miles from my house. I have read about negative effects of short frequent trips on the engine. Are there added maintenance items I should be doing on my V6? I live in Minnesota and the winter can be pretty harsh as far as temperature and road salts go. Should I run premium fuel instead of regular? Should I switch to synthetic oil? I have a new battery and she is running great with 145k, I just want to keep her running for a long time. :rockon:
 
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I got you beat at exactly 2.5 mile commute....

I let my truck warm up for a few minutes before driving but I'm sure there are some other precautions to be taken.

Curious to hear what others recommend.
 
Just make sure that it gets up to operating temp a few times a week and you'll be fine.

Switching to synthetic oil is always a good move IMO

As far as fuel, run what is required unless you know it will be under heavy load IE - towing in hot weather, then bump it up to a higher octane fuel.
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The issue is moisture condensed on the inside of the engine block from the last time you ran it.

On every cold start, the oil sloshes and captures all that condensation. If you don't then get the oil warm enough to evaporate that moisture back out of the oil and the oil cools, that moisture starts to sour and contaminate the oil. Synthetic resists this better than dino.

I would use synthetic but manage your oil change intervals as if it were cheap dino oil.
 
2 mile commute here. I bike when I can.

There are various problems with short trips. I'm not an expert, but some that I can think of:

-Burning fuel creates condensation=water. Ever seen water dripping out of a car's tailpipe? That happens when the exhaust isn't hot enough to keep it from condensing. The inside of the engine gets hot quickly, but it might be a while until the oil is hot enough to get all the moisture out of the system.
-The engine and oil never really get up to temperature. Oil works best at operating temperature, and it's too thick before it warms up. Running 0w30 or 0w20 would helps since the oil is less viscous at startup, but still has the necessary viscosity at operating temperature. I've read that you should avoid full throttle before the engine is fully warmed up, and even then the oil might not be fully warm for 30 minutes of driving. Hot oil is watery compared to how it is when you pour it out of the bottle, but the engine is designed with that watery viscosity in mind.
-The transmission probably never warms up. It's full of oil which presumably works better warm. Almost all vehicles have a transmission cooler built into the radiator which actually acts as a transmission heater as the engine warms up. Vehicles that are designed for heavy towing may have another transmission cooler in front of the radiator.
-Same with the diffs and transfer case, but these are less complicated, so they are probably fine unless it's extremely cold out. Synthetic fluid will help.
-The battery probably doesn't charge enough to make up for starting and running all the lights and stuff. If your battery voltage starts getting low, put it on a trickle charger
-The engine burns extra gas when it's cold to warm up the cats faster. If you have a V8 the secondary air system runs for the first 30 seconds.
-Rubber parts are less flexible when they are cold, so more likely to crack. I doubt this is much of an issue though.

For frequent short trips I recommend installing a block heater even if you live in a warm climate. If you have a V6 it's super easy to do, and the hardest part is finding the hole and routing the wire. If you have a V8, it's a bit of a pain since you have to drain the coolant from the block, and access is difficult. I plan to do it when I do the timing belt and water pump, probably this summer. Here's the best thread I can find anywhere on a V8 block heater install: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/179593-04-v8-block-heater-install-question.html
Other options include stick-on or magnetic block, oil pan, or transmission heaters. Starting with a warm engine should save lots of wear on the engine, and it should save some fuel, too. On cold days you don't have to idle as long to warm it up/clear the windows.

With some creative wiring, you could wire up a block heater, a trickle charger, and any other heaters you want to one plug. For the winter it would be awesome to wire the seat heater and rear defroster to the circuit, too! You would just have to find a way to tap into the circuit to apply 12V power and isolate that from the car side so you aren't driving 12V into something that's supposed to be off.

Check if the owner's manual has a "severe duty" service schedule and follow that if you want. With synthetic oil it might not matter since you can go a lot longer than the normal interval anyway.
 
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I drive mine about 1-2 miles to the train station in the morning where it sits all day. When I get home at night, if I have no other running around to do I purposely take it a few miles out of the way home to get the engine good and warm. Its an extra 5-10 minutes a day but I think its worth it.
 
Its 6 miles to my work and my 08 Tundra 5.7 in the winter will get a milky sludge in the top of the oil cap. Oil always looks great on the dipstick. It's the moisture going to the highest point in the engine. It's a common thing for people that don't commute very far. Toyota says its nothing to worry about.
 
2 mile commute here. I bike when I can.

Thanks for the great write up. I plan to bike this Spring but that doesn't start until April/May here in MN. That block heater looks like an interesting idea. I have the V6 so i'll look into costs. I think I'll change to synthetic oil at my next change, which may be a while. I guess the big question is how long and how often does one have to run the engine to burn off the excess moisture that may build up in the engine. Is it ten minutes or twenty and is this at highway speed?
 
Fuel doesn't matter, but this is exactly right:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The issue is moisture condensed on the inside of the engine block from the last time you ran it.

On every cold start, the oil sloshes and captures all that condensation. If you don't then get the oil warm enough to evaporate that moisture back out of the oil and the oil cools, that moisture starts to sour and contaminate the oil. Synthetic resists this better than dino.

I would use synthetic but manage your oil change intervals as if it were cheap dino oil.

Frequent short trips are very hard on the engine. I know it's winter in Minny and a bike is entirely out of the question, but can't you catch a bus for three miles?
 
2 mile commute here. I bike when I can.

Thanks for the great write up. I plan to bike this Spring but that doesn't start until April/May here in MN. That block heater looks like an interesting idea. I have the V6 so i'll look into costs. I think I'll change to synthetic oil at my next change, which may be a while. I guess the big question is how long and how often does one have to run the engine to burn off the excess moisture that may build up in the engine. Is it ten minutes or twenty and is this at highway speed?

It should be like $60 for a Toyota one. You might be able to find an aftermarket one cheaper. I'm 90% sure this is the right part:
Toyota Prius Hybrid Engine Block Heater and Prius Engine Heater

I would at least drive until the temp gauge reaches normal, than drive a few minutes more. But you still some extra wear that happens when everything is cold, and warming it up doesn't really fix that. How long it takes to warm up depends on the temperature and where you are driving. It should warm up faster on the highway than sitting idle at traffic lights (most of my commute time is waiting for lights). And I don't know how long the V6 takes to warm up, but the V8 seems to be fast. My last car, a Honda Civic, took forever to warm up if it was cold out. I would let it idle for 10 minutes in the driveway, then drive 4 miles to work. At every traffic light I could watch the temp gauge drop as the heater core cooled off the engine. Maybe the thermostat was bad, or maybe it was just too efficient. But it was annoying to freeze my hands while wearing thick gloves inside the car.
 
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I've heard that lots of idling and short trips where the rpms never get up can be bad for the catalytic converters because they need to get to a certain temperature to burn off the contaminants they are filtering out otherwise they can clog. Not sure how true that is but it never hurts to give her a good a run on the weekends or every now to clean her out. Also would take care of any moisture built up.
 
Wait so we can use this exact one on our v6 4runners? if thats the case I can jump into my car ever morning and just blast the heat!!:flamethrwoer2:

take that -20 degree days!

As far as I know, yes, but you should check since I don't actually have one, and I don't have a V6. The part numbers are confusing, and they seem to have different part numbers for the same thing.

Here's one version of the Toyota block heater application chart, with some Toyota part numbers.
http://www.fivestarmanufacturing.co...c3ac5e81/TOYOTA_BLOCK_HEATER_APPL__GUIDE.aspx

This table lists the part from the Prius link (PU140-00902) for the 03-11 4runner V6.
http://manage.toyotaap.com/docs/Toyota_0910.pdf

If you check the Kat's chart, all the engines that use a cartridge heater use the same part number (Kat's 11813).
http://www.fivestarmanufacturing.com/getdoc/2c8a6911-c214-4190-9059-d6aaa10fe527/DC12.aspx
For some reason this chart doesn't list the 03-05 4.0L?

You could just get the aftermarket part if you don't want to deal with Toyota part number nonsense. It's half the price, too, and since it's outside the engine it doesn't matter if it's reliable (unlike a core plug heater that has to not leak or corrode).
http://www.etrailer.com/Vehicle-Heaters/Kats-Heaters/KH11813.html


I know the 4th and 5th gen use the same block heater, as do a lot of Toyota aluminum engines. I don't know if the pre-05 V6 is actually any different where the block heater goes?

You might not be able to blast the heat right away. I haven't used one, but it sounds like the heater will keep the engine warm but not hot. You should have heat within a minute or two, though. On -20 degree days it might not get as hot since the heater only puts out so much heat.
 
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Just make sure that it gets up to operating temp a few times a week and you'll be fine.

Switching to synthetic oil is always a good move IMO

As far as fuel, run what is required unless you know it will be under heavy load IE - towing in hot weather, then bump it up to a higher octane fuel.
yup, this.

I've heard that lots of idling and short trips where the rpms never get up can be bad for the catalytic converters because they need to get to a certain temperature to burn off the contaminants they are filtering out otherwise they can clog. Not sure how true that is but it never hurts to give her a good a run on the weekends or every now to clean her out. Also would take care of any moisture built up.
also this.

another thing, lots of short trips doesn't give the battery a chance to fully recharge. it might be a good idea to put it on a trickle charger for 10-12 hours once a month.
 
I have a 1.1 mile 3 minute commute. I'm very thankful work provides me a car to take home because I would hate to do that to my truck twice a day.
 
Other precaution I can think of is probably more frequent oil changes. This should help prevent sludging.

You can get a trickle charger (battery tender) for $20 at Harbor Freight that uses an SAE connector. You permanently mount the plug to your battery and then connecting/disconnecting just takes a second. I run a tender on both my motorcycle and my wife's jeep.
 
Other precaution I can think of is probably more frequent oil changes. This should help prevent sludging.

You can get a trickle charger (battery tender) for $20 at Harbor Freight that uses an SAE connector. You permanently mount the plug to your battery and then connecting/disconnecting just takes a second. I run a tender on both my motorcycle and my wife's jeep.

i really like the little solar chargers, but im not sure if they would have enough output to top the battery off.
i use one on my atv, to keep the battery fully charged, it works great for that.
 
All of you guys running very short trips every day:

The only cure for the condensed acids and water in the engine is ->

Take the car for at least a twenty mile trip once a week.


Synthetic oil won't help.

Warming up in the driveway won't help.

Frequent oil changes won't help.
 
i really like the little solar chargers, but im not sure if they would have enough output to top the battery off.
i use one on my atv, to keep the battery fully charged, it works great for that.

I looked into those, and it seems like most of them don't have any protection against overcharging the battery. It's usually limited by the fact that the current is very low, but if you get one that's too big it could overcharge the battery, which will damage it over time. I didn't want to risk it, so I use a plug-in trickle charger as needed. Even that probably isn't the best for the battery since the voltage is a bit higher than I would like, but occasional use shouldn't hurt it.
 
I started a new job that is 3 miles from my house. I have read about negative effects of short frequent trips on the engine. Are there added maintenance items I should be doing on my V6? I live in Minnesota and the winter can be pretty harsh as far as temperature and road salts go. Should I run premium fuel instead of regular? Should I switch to synthetic oil? I have a new battery and she is running great with 145k, I just want to keep her running for a long time. :rockon:

Where in Mpls are you at? I am down in Kingfield. I am always jealous of the guys that get to go wheeling but then remember how crappy the roads are in Mpls and its like the same thing! hahahaha
 

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