is the 199mm tundra brake upgrade be worth it?

[theizzardking]

or should i hold out for the 2xxmm tundra ones, i plan on running 285's and don't want to spend the extra money if the 199's are not worth it.


i'm paying $120 for front calipers and rotors, from a '99 tundra trd.

 

[rdgt4r]

I have the 199's and they hold up to very steep descents will full time braking.
With 285's hmm i think the difference would be verrrrrry small because of our weight in comparison to the Tundra.

 

[theizzardking]

I have the 199's and they hold up to very steep descents will full time braking.
With 285's hmm i think the difference would be verrrrrry small because of our weight in comparison to the Tundra.

i don't think the weight difference between the 2 trucks is what makes the difference it's the weight on each wheel from the tire it's self and the difference in the sizes of calipers (amount of frictional force/surface area applied to the rotor) which determines the braking.

do you see what i'm saying here the weight of the tundra vs the 4runner doesn't matter when putting the tundra brakes on my runner, it's the difference in the surface area between the two brake set ups on my ride.

( if that were the case there would be no difference in stopping power between the 199mm's and the 2xxmm's ones on the tundra as the tundra's weight didn't change just the size of the brakes.)

 

[rdgt4r]

ahh yeah i knew it was a surface area ratio change. I say might as well do the 231mm if your gonna do it and have heavier components on your car than what you have now, it couldnt hurt. Its tough to say which is realistically better and what might be overkill. For instance my 199's are a vast improvement over stock and haven't had a problem, but im not running 285's. All i know are the numbers between the two setups telling which one will stop better and put up with the heating issues that plagued the stock set up, obviously the 231mm will. So with that said the price for the 199mm is great, whether you want or feel more surface is necessary then go for the 231mm.

 

[juiceboxer]

I went with the 231's mostly because the 199's were recalled for the tundras. Now I understand that these are still better for the 4Runner but I figured it may be more difficult to find brake pads later on down the road... Also, Go big or go home

 

[FoneRunner]

I got 199mm and I like them a lot. Big improvement and easy mod. I'm sure the 231mm is good too...so to me it was what was available at the time...and its only 32mm right?

 

[juiceboxer]

Bottom line is go with what you can afford, both are a significant upgrade from stock. You won;t be disappointed...

 

[theizzardking]

I went with the 231's mostly because the 199's were recalled for the tundras. Now I understand that these are still better for the 4Runner but I figured it may be more difficult to find brake pads later on down the road... Also, Go big or go home

so with all of that said i decided to hold off on the 199mm becuase of the recall as well, it's also my understanding that not only the length of the caliper has an effect but also the depth of the pad the, 231mm tundra brake caliper has a much thicker pad, this is paramount in the dispersion of heat, the length of the pad is the frictional force applied and the depth of the pad is like a heat sink for that frictional heat created. So it's not just the extra 32mm your talking about here it's a bit more then that, well at least from the reading i've done over the weekend that's what i've gathered the problems with the 199 were and why they were recalled.

the price difference is about $150 all said and done, i found the complete rotor and caliper set up for the 199's @ $120 and i found the complete 231
setup @ $120 a side. so looking at it here like this i would be a fool to go with a discontinued item with minimal cash savings, imo.

i think this good as it'll also allow me to run as big of tires as i would like with out worrying about braking and the horrible fade i'm getting from the stock set up and what i've heard about the 199mm's in their stock application.

 

[FoneRunner]

I never knew about a recall...I guess thats a good thing cause it's too late now! I can tell you that I haven't had any problems and the braking is much better than before.

 

[p nut]

How heavy is your rig? If you're at less than 5,000 lbs and/or haul a heavy trailer often, I don't see any benefit from going to Tundra brakes. And people that report the "night and day difference" after the Tundra set up, that's mostly due to getting NEW ROTORS AND PADS. Had they gotten new stock pads and rotors, result would have been similar.

And just FYI, the diameter of the Tundra rotors is the same as a stock 4Runner set up, but it's just thicker. There is no surface area gained---just the sheer mass of the rotors. This is what helps with brake fade and rotors warping.

If you are at a relatively stock weight, redo your current set up. Even just a new set of ceramic pads will do wonders. Hawk LTS pads are great. I bought mine from Autozone (Duralast ceramic) and they've done just fine. Mine are even smaller than the 4Runner brakes.

Oh, and also, the weight of the vehicle is a HUGE part of brake performance. Weight of the wheels have very little to do with it. I got out-braked by little CRX's (sub-2000 lbs) all the time in my Integra Type R/S2000 (2,500/2,800, respectively). Wheel sizes were the same.

 

[theizzardking]

How heavy is your rig? If you're at less than 5,000 lbs and/or haul a heavy trailer often, I don't see any benefit from going to Tundra brakes. And people that report the "night and day difference" after the Tundra set up, that's mostly due to getting NEW ROTORS AND PADS. Had they gotten new stock pads and rotors, result would have been similar.

And just FYI, the diameter of the Tundra rotors is the same as a stock 4Runner set up, but it's just thicker. There is no surface area gained---just the sheer mass of the rotors. This is what helps with brake fade and rotors warping.

If you are at a relatively stock weight, redo your current set up. Even just a new set of ceramic pads will do wonders. Hawk LTS pads are great. I bought mine from Autozone (Duralast ceramic) and they've done just fine. Mine are even smaller than the 4Runner brakes.

Oh, and also, the weight of the vehicle is a HUGE part of brake performance. Weight of the wheels have very little to do with it. I got out-braked by little CRX's (sub-2000 lbs) all the time in my Integra Type R/S2000 (2,500/2,800, respectively). Wheel sizes were the same.

you are wrong search my posts i'm getting fade and warping already with new pads and rotors just a few months later, in fact ever since the day this truck rolled off the line, i got the truck from my parents who owned since new, i know my truck i know the history i know something is up with the stock set-up.


is every single 4runner effected by this? no
how much does terrain and driving habits matter. allot
was there enough of a problem for a tsb to be released? yes (BR007-00)
do i happen to be one of the effected? yes

and personally i can't comment on the night and day difference and neither can you unless you've done it, the only reason i'm doing this is becuase the stock set-up is literally just not cutting it

surface area is gained do the math of the surface area of a 199mm oblong shape and do one of a 231mm oblong shape regardless of the size of rotor.
again in my previous post i stated that they are also thicker as well to disperse heat therefore decrease wraping.

so you gain frictional surface area and heat dispersant properties.
no matter if the stock set-up is fine or not it is an upgrade.

 

[theizzardking]

also weight isn't as much of an issue as you make it out to be, it's more of the ratio of weight to frictional surface area of the brakes, so if a larger heavier truck could actually stop quicker then a smaller lighter car provided the ratio between the 2 break set-up's is comparable or leans in favor of the heavier truck.

 

[Justin727]

231mm's. ill be doing that as soon as I get some meats for my 18"BBS wheels

 

[Ham Sammich]

I went with with a set of 06 Tundra 231mm 13WL calipers and blank Napa rotors....got lucky at car-parts.com and found a pair of unused preloaded calipers for $56 each...Look around, there are deals out there.

No trouble at all on the install, fit under my 16" Limited wheels, no problem.

 

[p nut]

you are wrong search my posts i'm getting fade and warping already with new pads and rotors just a few months later, in fact ever since the day this truck rolled off the line, i got the truck from my parents who owned since new, i know my truck i know the history i know something is up with the stock set-up.


is every single 4runner effected by this? no
how much does terrain and driving habits matter. allot
was there enough of a problem for a tsb to be released? yes (BR007-00)
do i happen to be one of the effected? yes

and personally i can't comment on the night and day difference and neither can you unless you've done it, the only reason i'm doing this is becuase the stock set-up is literally just not cutting it

surface area is gained do the math of the surface area of a 199mm oblong shape and do one of a 231mm oblong shape regardless of the size of rotor.
again in my previous post i stated that they are also thicker as well to disperse heat therefore decrease wraping.

so you gain frictional surface area and heat dispersant properties.
no matter if the stock set-up is fine or not it is an upgrade.

First, you lost a lot of credibility with this statement:

"...i don't think the weight difference between the 2 trucks is what makes the difference it's the weight on each wheel from the tire it's self..."

Please expound on how the weight of the wheel is MORE of a factor in braking than the weight of the vehicle itself.

Secondly, you did not disclose what type of pads and rotors you had. Also, did you bed them in properly? Did you turn the rotors?

In my 4Runners and my Tacoma, I've never had any warping issues or brake fade problems, because I used quality rotors and pads, then broke them in properly. And I do use my brakes quite a bit. I'm an avid skiier and also a mtn biker, so I am constantly going up and down the canyons (I live in the Rockies). Even with the smaller rotors on the Tacoma, I have yet to have any kind of fade or warpage issue.

Many think they will benefit from the Tundra brake upgrade, but in all honesty, unless you tow a lot and/or your rig is shod with front and rear steel bumpers, expedition equipment, and weighs 5,000+ lbs, you don't need this mod.

And one last thing--no offense intended, but could you use some puctuation? It's a bit hard trying to read your posts.

 

[004Gunner]

No trouble at all on the install, fit under my 16" Limited wheels, no problem.

Sweet! This is one of the few references to the 16" Limited wheels and the 231mm Tundra brakes fitting without issue. The 5 spoke alloy wheels, right? And no grinding, just some trimming of the dust shield?

Sorry to interrupt OP, back to the :boxer:

 

[theizzardking]

First, you lost a lot of credibility with this statement:

"...i don't think the weight difference between the 2 trucks is what makes the difference it's the weight on each wheel from the tire it's self..."

Please expound on how the weight of the wheel is MORE of a factor in braking than the weight of the vehicle itself.

Secondly, you did not disclose what type of pads and rotors you had. Also, did you bed them in properly? Did you turn the rotors?

In my 4Runners and my Tacoma, I've never had any warping issues or brake fade problems, because I used quality rotors and pads, then broke them in properly. And I do use my brakes quite a bit. I'm an avid skiier and also a mtn biker, so I am constantly going up and down the canyons (I live in the Rockies). Even with the smaller rotors on the Tacoma, I have yet to have any kind of fade or warpage issue.

Many think they will benefit from the Tundra brake upgrade, but in all honesty, unless you tow a lot and/or your rig is shod with front and rear steel bumpers, expedition equipment, and weighs 5,000+ lbs, you don't need this mod.

And one last thing--no offense intended, but could you use some puctuation? It's a bit hard trying to read your posts.

ok, i can explain it's physics 101 i'll make it easy, here- http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/math_brakes.html

has nothing to do with weight more about moment of inertia or "rolling mass"


i used all oem parts from the deal see original thread here, no edits,first page.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...fore-after-new-rotors-calipers-ect-ect-2.html


like i said in the post above,
does every one have this problem? no
does terrain and driving habits have alot to do with it? yes


i get what your trying to say, not everyone needs this. It just happens that i do........

also, you can't fault people who want to upgrade anything on their trucks,
how is this any worse then people putting reverse camera's on their bumpers and other things? If anything i would applaud someone who puts safety over style when looking at things to upgrade.


so with that, i am still getting the feeling people are saying the go big or go home?! 231's for me?!!!

oh also, just want you to know since it was said earlier, that this is all in a friendly tone buddy, don't want to sound condescending or snide or anything like that, i admit i don't always have all the answers, i can still even be wrong about this as well, it's just the math makes sense to me and we're all learning here,when you stop learning you should just die, where's the adventure?
;-)

 

[Ham Sammich]

Sweet! This is one of the few references to the 16" Limited wheels and the 231mm Tundra brakes fitting without issue. The 5 spoke alloy wheels, right? And no grinding, just some trimming of the dust shield?

Sorry to interrupt OP, back to the :boxer:

These are the wheels that I have...no grinding, just minor trimming of the dust shield....and the difference in braking, especially during towing, is immense.

 

[Justin727]

Many think they will benefit from the Tundra brake upgrade, but in all honesty, unless you tow a lot and/or your rig is shod with front and rear steel bumpers, expedition equipment, and weighs 5,000+ lbs, you don't need this mod.

I agree. That being said a friend of mine whom is not active on this forum did the 231 upgrade. You will noticably be able to tell during towing. But I could tell for sure that braking is affected greatly by the difference even while not towing.
After driving his 4runner for a day I had to get use to my brakes in my rig all over agian lol.

 

[p nut]

ok, i can explain it's physics 101 i'll make it easy, here- http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/math_brakes.html

has nothing to do with weight more about moment of inertia or "rolling mass"


i used all oem parts from the deal see original thread here, no edits,first page.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...fore-after-new-rotors-calipers-ect-ect-2.html


like i said in the post above,
does every one have this problem? no
does terrain and driving habits have alot to do with it? yes


i get what your trying to say, not everyone needs this. It just happens that i do........

also, you can't fault people who want to upgrade anything on their trucks,
how is this any worse then people putting reverse camera's on their bumpers and other things? If anything i would applaud someone who puts safety over style when looking at things to upgrade.


so with that, i am still getting the feeling people are saying the go big or go home?! 231's for me?!!!

oh also, just want you to know since it was said earlier, that this is all in a friendly tone buddy, don't want to sound condescending or snide or anything like that, i admit i don't always have all the answers, i can still even be wrong about this as well, it's just the math makes sense to me and we're all learning here,when you stop learning you should just die, where's the adventure?
;-)

I understand that there will be some loss in brake performance going to bigger wheels, but first of all, going from 31’s to 33’s won’t affect the braking that much. I noticed almost no difference going from 31’s to 32’s. Secondly, it will be almost a non-factor when comparing it to the weight of the vehicle. For example, take a 3,000lb rig with 33’s and 5,000lb rig with 29’s, both with same brakes, and tell me which stops better.

Also, I’m not saying that nobody should upgrade. There are some that NEED the upgrade. There are those that just WANT to upgrade. I just want those that want to upgrade to admit that they’re doing it out of want, not need. I’m still standing by my opinion that if you order some quality rotors and pads, break them in properly, you won’t have this issue of warping and brake fade.

And we're all cool here--friendly tone is assumed be default. :bluejump: